Back from Seattle, refreshed after an anime con, and delving back into the tech! While this episode seems to be a fair rip of "The Undiscovered Country" on the surface, it in fact goes a bit deeper than that in terms of plotting and Klingon culture - the trial, for example, is much less of a farce. There's a bunch of juicy tech to be seen too, so let's get right to it.
-The Klingon coutroom is a fair attempt at recreating the feel of the one seen in ST6. It's smaller, the central platform doesn't rise, but it does feature multiple galleries of angry Klingons stomping those staffs (re-created by multiplying a smaller set a la "Tsunkatse"). The judge is using the familiar robes and sparkling gavel hand thingy from the movie.
-Wow, Klingon architecture is really rustic in this period, far moreso than the neo-futuristic stuff we're familiar with in the TNG era. Doors are wooden even on colonized planets! As for the outfits, I still have yet to see any real Klingon uniforms aside from certain shared patterns and colors in what must be their military outfits. This continues to be a fair indication of the organization (or lack thereof) in the Klingon military. There is a lot of material here about the Klingon caste structure, and it figures into the plot.
-The bad guy is Duras, son of Toral (ironic, no?). He's mentioned to be serving in the Tae'ghoko defence perimeter as a weapons officer following his demotion from Captain. I had originally thought this to be Ty'Gokor, but the closed captioning says differently.
-The incident leading to the tribunal sees Enterprise giving sanctuary to some "rebels" Duras is after. Duras goes in to halt this, and his butt is prompty kicked by what he calls the "Battlecruiser Enterprise" in a VERY cool fight scene through the rings of a gas giant. The transport the "rebels" use seems to be new: a small, boxy ship of light green.
-Duras' ship = a D-5 battlecruiser, the Bortas. I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to be a re-use of the Klingon transport from "Marauders" sans deuterium pods. A combat variant? The bridge set is a truncated version of the tried-and-true Klingon bridge set, with additional greeblies around the familiar consoles and support struts. In Duras' testimony, his tactical officer mentions that their ship is easily superior to Enterprise. The top speed is Warp 6.
-When Archer is allowed to give his side of the story (in yet another instance of using archaic Klingon law to get your way), the rebels are relabeled as refugees and needed to abandon their ship, forcing the Enterprise crew to double up.
-There is mention of Enterprise rescuing the Klingon Raptor "Sam'ra" last year in "Sleeping Dogs". Did that ship have a name before?
-Of course, Archer is not found guilty of abetting criminals, and while his not to be executed, he still gets shipped off to Rura Penthe on general principle. The exterior shot of this place is EXCEEDINGLY cool, and seems to combine the familiar Alaskan scenery of ST6 with a slightly more obvious prison complex of low buildings. The interior is a nicely-done series of ice caves that seem far closer to the surface than before. We get a deja vu of props from the movie as well, and I think the ore carts are re-uses of the ones seen in DS9 "Civil Defense".
-Rura Penthe seems a lax kind of place in this era... Archer escapes from the place almost as an afterthought, after T'Pol bribes a diplomat. Also, while the place is pretty harsh, going there is not an automatic death sentence - Hertzler's character elects to stay behind and serve out his one-year term there, so he can try to effect change in the Empire once he's back. I really hope to see him again.
Mark
[ April 08, 2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
There were schematics of the D5 displayed during the briefing scene. Someone keen should capture those... Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
According to writer David A. Goodman, that was indeed a reference to the same Ty Go'kor as in "Apocalypse Rising"
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Wait a moment. We have a Duras. Closely related to Toral. Commanding Battlecruiser Bortas.
Is this just a really bad hommaje or did they run out of ideas? I like the idea of having an ancestor of "our" Duras on the show, but really, isn't this going a little too far? (On the other hand, I really like the Ty'Gokor-reference)
Interesting bit about the D5 being the fuel carrier ship. Do you think the ship from DS9's "Sons of Mogh" could be a D5-variant? Maybe a D6? There are definitely similarities (I'm talking of the green Promellian cruiser used as a Klingon vessel) Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:I'm talking of the green Promellian cruiser used as a Klingon vessel
Which is probably not a Klingon vessel at all.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:I'm talking of the green Promellian cruiser used as a Klingon vessel
Which is probably not a Klingon vessel at all.
And it can't be Promellian either. The fact that it's painted green doesn't say anything about its origin, but it was the only ship seen in that sequence and Noggra or whatever his name was probably had his own ship to travel to the station (And I don't suppose it was cloaked or anything). The Intention was clear: the vessel was supposed to be his ship. (If not, it would be like having Sisko say Picard just arrived at the station, an exterior shot of a freighter docked at the station and then the scene where both actually meet. That wouldn't make sense. You'd give us a view of the Enterprise in the exterior shot. Same here.)
Alex. (Supporter of the KNMS-capaign) Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -There is mention of Enterprise rescuing the Klingon Raptor "Sam'ra" last year in "Sleeping Dogs". Did that ship have a name before?
I had it down as "Somraw" at the time, this new spelling is probably the correct one, looks more Klingon to me.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
You never know. The CC spellings of note are as follows:
Tae'ghoko - supposed to be "Ty'gokor", but the actor's pronunciation doesn't help
Vor'tas - obstensibly Bortas, and corrected as such
Sam Ra - I had put the ' in by mistake
I'd take these spellings with a grain of salt, really. Duras, Toral, and Rura Penthe are all correct.
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: Is this just a really bad hommaje or did they run out of ideas? I like the idea of having an ancestor of "our" Duras on the show, but really, isn't this going a little too far?
Not really. Remember that Worf is the son of Mogh, who is the son of another Worf. Nobel families do tend to recycle names quite frequently, at least the ones on earth do. As for the Bortas, it's no more of a coincidence than having a ship named Enterprise having two of it's crewmembers sent to Rura Pente, or encountering a Klingon named Duras for that matter.
From the looks of it all of these references to previous Klingon episodes are quite obviously intentional, evidently the writing staff still have a copy of the Encyclopaedia.
BTW, is this the first instance of a Klingon vessel baring the same name as previous one, so far as we've seen anyway? It's something they should probably do more often given how often Starfleet reuses certain ship names. (I think Valiant had as many as four repetitions, second only to Enterprise with eight)
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The Magazine also spells it as Somraw. I'd choose that over CC if I were you.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: As for the Bortas, it's no more of a coincidence than having a ship named Enterprise having two of it's crewmembers sent to Rura Pente, or encountering a Klingon named Duras for that matter....BTW, is this the first instance of a Klingon vessel baring the same name as previous one, so far as we've seen anyway? It's something they should probably do more often given how often Starfleet reuses certain ship names. (I think Valiant had as many as four repetitions, second only to Enterprise with eight)
Well, seeing as how "BortaS" translates to "Vengeance," it may be their version of "Enterprise," y'know?
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I thought that Scotty or Uhura.. or somebody said that no one has ever gotten off of Rura Penthe.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: but it was the only ship seen in that sequence and Noggra or whatever his name was probably had his own ship to travel to the station. The Intention was clear: the vessel was supposed to be his ship.
Didn't Noggra tell Kurn that they came aboard a shuttle?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, there goes the theory about the D-5 battlecruisers being the ones seen on TAS. (I guess Kor had two vessels named Klothos during his many years of commanding...)
I have an idea about the alternate spellings of Klingon names. Suppose that, as with Chinese or Russian here on Earth, there are multiple ways of translating words into English because the alphabets used are different. (ie, Mao Tse-Tung and Peking vs. Mao Zedong and Bejing, etc.) So Bortas and Vor'tas, Tae'ghoko and Ty'Gokor, and Somraw and Sam Ra are all just approximations of English letter translations of Klingon characters.
-MMoM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: Didn't Noggra tell Kurn that they came aboard a shuttle?
He did, but it's unlikely that a shuttle could have made it all the way from Klingon space to DS9 in anything less than a few months. More likely his shuttle was docked aboard that Klingon/Promellian Transport. Sort of like a roll on, roll off ferry.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: He did, but it's unlikely that a shuttle could have made it all the way from Klingon space to DS9 in anything less than a few months.
More unlikely than, let's say, getting from Earth to Qo'nos in 4 days? No, just kidding. I'm fine with the RO/RO theory.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Sounds like an interesting idea - if we assume that there are enough shuttles without the capability of deep-space-travel. But from what we saw over the years even ships like the Yridian vessel/Nenebek or the Ferengi shuttle - both not larger than the average Type 6 - and even Geordi's shuttlepod (OK, shut up, let's forget that one ) are able to travel at long distances. Don't get me wrong - I may have just crippled my own idea about the Promellian being a Klingon - but if he really arrived aboard a shuttle, then he, like most others, doesn't have to rely on such a "ferry".
Did he really say shuttle?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
-- Looks like that refugee transport was a redress of the T'Pau model from TNG, painted green. Of course it was almost certainly CGI, but I thought I recognized the nose section and the curved cowling of the engines.
-- The John Vickery character called the ship the Bortas during Archer's recounting of events. I didn't have the CC on, but it sure sounded like a "B" to me...
-- I'll be damned, that Klingon D5 battle cruiser actually looks imposing while still looking relatively retro!
-- As for its apparently identical design with the tanker/raider from "Marauders," doesn't it make sense that those raiders might have had their own D5 cruiser (stolen or otherwise) retrofitted with those fuel tanks. After all, we've already seen that the Empire is a lot less organized than in TOS and TNG times, so it's not that big a stretch, IMO.
-- Looks like the NX-01 had a third phase cannon on the starboard quarter... during Archer's recounting of the fight, the first shots looked to come from the usual position of the fore-starboard phase cannon. Then the last shot seemed to come from another mount on the direct starboard saucer. We didn't see the actual emitters since the shot was from over the top of the saucer, but the angle made the points of origin pretty clear to me.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
That Klingon Judge sure had chubby cheeks.
I don't see anything wrong with Noggras' ship being that unidentified ship docked at DS9. Obviously the Klingon Empire has a variety of ships and budget costs limit us to only seeing a half a dozen different types, so its really a pity that we didn't get to see that ship ever reused again.
As for "Judgement":
-I am not sure how much you can count on the closed captioning for that episode. I noticed that they spelled the STVI "Rura Penthe" in this episode "Rura Pente".
-Same with "Som Ra" and "Somraw" (or was it Som'raH"??) from "Sleeping Dogs".
-Also, the "Vor'Tas" didn't really sound like "Bortas" to me, but just the first of many cases of unoriginal thought.
-One other note on this episodes overuse of similar or reused words as previously mentioned, one other was "Kholof" which sounded remarkably like "Koloth" spoken, the first of which obviously predates the latter, it still seems that the writers are either poor spellers or awefully short on fresh ideas.
Finally, this ep. was at all bad, but it sure seemed awefully like a 'sellout' to appeal to TNG/TUC fans, and why, oh why, can't you see their breath while on a frozen planet???
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I don't know about anyone else, but when we see the exterior shots of the Klingon colony-thing, I saw what looked like a Vulcan ship flying away. Complete with warp ring.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I really wish they wouldn't have used that olive green color scheme for the D-5. It would have looked so much more retro if it were blue or gray.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't think the battlecruiser looked much like the earlier freighter at all.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
This ep was pretty good, despite being a rather shameless rip of STVI. (From the courtroom to Rura Penthe, and even including right down to a torpedo ploy! )
Despite what I've heard others say, I'm hoping they continue a strong Klingon presence on the series. While many are saying that they're "tired" of the Klingons, I say that they always have been and always will be a central pivotal element of Trek, and this is how it should be. What's more, I am thoroughly excited by the fact that ENT has the opportunity to get back to the old us-versus-them scenarios. (While I don't disapprove of TNG and DS9's extensive efforts to humanize and flesh them out, I have always felt that Klingons are at their best when they are portrayed as villains. They're so deliciously...villainy. I have indeed been missing the days of Kor and Kang and Kruge going head to head with Kirk and the gang...)
-MMoM Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
It's nice to know that Klingon female clevage continuity is being observed. Anyway, the episode was good even though it did look like ST6. The D-5 should get different nacelles thought... they look like something I've seen before...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: Well, there goes the theory about the D-5 battlecruisers being the ones seen on TAS. (I guess Kor had two vessels named Klothos during his many years of commanding...)
I think this new design is much more suitible for a D-5 class cruiser, given that the TAS version was almost identical to the classic D-7.
quote: I have an idea about the alternate spellings of Klingon names. Suppose that, as with Chinese or Russian here on Earth, there are multiple ways of translating words into English because the alphabets used are different. (ie, Mao Tse-Tung and Peking vs. Mao Zedong and Bejing, etc.) So Bortas and Vor'tas, Tae'ghoko and Ty'Gokor, and Somraw and Sam Ra are all just approximations of English letter translations of Klingon characters.
That could also apply to Quo'nos and Kronos.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Qo'noS is merely the hardcore Okrandian spelling of Kronos, just as those sketchy Klingon-speaking guys insist on converting Klingon to Thing'lan (or whatever it is). For whatever reason the Qo'noS spelling still kicks around where otherwise English transliteration is used exclusively.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Aha! I thought there was something odd about that first shot in Duras' version of things. I guess we can chalk this up to the confusion of viewpoints. Though, I was thinking through the whole thing, surely the sensor logs from the Klingon ship would be available for analysis?
I'm still not sure about the D5's lineage, but I certainly confess the resemblance.
I also didn't think of ST VI during the fight. I mean, that's hardly the only time someone shot a torpedo at a Klingon ship.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Concerning the Klothos thing.. If the Duras family likes ships named BortaS, then the House of Koloth could simply have a thing for ships named Klothos (or whatever the 24th century Thling'an'Jil translitteration would be). Right?
The Klingons strike me as somewhat similar to Romans here. They display a singular lack of wit in inventing names, for themselves as well as for their possessions. A real warrior no doubt "needs no steenking names", or something like that.
Yeah, I dig the D-5. And the idea that the marauders would have used one as their tanker. And that the Promellian-in-disguise was a Klingon design, since the shape and color and timing do speak for that concept (Noggra said there was a shuttle accident, but did he really say he *arrived* by shuttle?). What I don't dig is the failure to do more with the TOS uniform idea... The lady in the first photo seems to wear texture that could be similar to the TOS rags, but the male uniforms are too leathery for my tastes.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Oh, and I just heard "Judgement" had something about there having been more varied Klingon castes before, and the society moving towards an all-warrior ideal now.
I hereby declare this a subject matter for the Starships & Technology forum, in case somebody wants to discuss the mechanics of this fascinating process, and how it affects Klingon fashion and language.
The Enterprise forum of course remains the primary one for this stuff...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:If the Duras family likes ships named BortaS
Just to clarify, the TNG-Bortas was Gowron's flagship during the civil war.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote: Despite what I've heard others say, I'm hoping they continue a strong Klingon presence on the series. While many are saying that they're "tired" of the Klingons, I say that they always have been and always will be a central pivotal element of Trek, and this is how it should be.
As much as I would like to agree with you on this, we've just seen WAY too much of it. I bet, from a quick glace, that we have been subjected to upwards of 50 episodes dedicated to Klingons, with a Klingon "A" story and numerous others with a Klingon "B" story. This greatly outnumbers all other races with exception of perhaps the Dominion. I fear that TPTB may turn the Klingons in Enterprise to something comparable to the Borg in Voyager - in other words, a cop out for a fanfare episode.
Based on what we know about the Klingons, they could easily wipeout Starfleet and thus could easily be the 'Borg' or 'Dominion' of this series, and I don't want to see this series turn that direction. Its bad enough that we get something like 2 or 3 episodes per season dedicated to what the pilot introduced, and for that matter we havent even seen 'Future Guy' or 'Silik' since the beginning of this season for that matter. This isn't Voyager ppl, you don't need to abandon the original premise so quickly!
So AFAI see it, the Klingons really dont need to be exploited for this series (as they have in the past) as they really don't seem to play a pivotal role in the founding of the Federation, as we have already seen their role played out through TOS to DS9.
And dammit....Rura Penthe is a frickin frozen asteroid, why the hell couldnt you see their breath!??!?!?!?!
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The trick is to eat snow. Didn't you watch "Enemy at the Gates"?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: Just to clarify, the TNG-Bortas was Gowron's flagship during the civil war.
In that case maybe Gowron was rubbing Duras's face in something...or it's just a common name for Klingon warships. Named after a former Chancellor or Emperor perhaps? Or it could just as easily be the Klingon word for "whoop-ass". Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Or it could just as easily be the Klingon word for "whoop-ass".
Or it's the Klingon word for "Vengeance" as Shik pointed out on page 1. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
With Klingons the one tends to lead to the other. Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
This hasn't been mentioned yet, but c'mon, I think kudos need to be extended to the makeup people for maintaining forehead ridge continuity between this Duras and his descendants.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Perhaps they reused the forehead mold, they save those don't they???
Also, an interesting twist that "Judgement" could have made, seeing it was pre-establishing threads into already familiar Klingon families, would have been to make 'Kolos' (the J.G. Hertzler character) be an early ancestor to 'Martok'. As we know, 'Martok' was originally a 'commoner' and it would seem that that would have fit well into the bloodlines portrayed from 'Kolos', who seemed to already be somewhat of a low-level-to-the-extent-of-a-commoner-type individual.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
I have read on the internet beliefs put forth that the D-# classification was created by Starfleet and was very similiar to American efforts to identify Soviet submarines during the Cold War. If the classification system was in place before the Federation Starfleet and was utilized by the Klingons, I think we can put this theory to rest.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
That or someone jackass on the writing staff had to go muck everything up with the Klingon ships in ENT again.
However, they could also have various designs for the "D-5" designation such as: "ye ole D-5 Battle Cruiser" or "ye ole D-5 Frigate" or hell...maybe its a carrier...as it looks so much like that frieghter from earlier this season, it could easily be designed to be a multipurpose carrier capible of missions from freight to border patrol and so forth. I don't think it has to conform to any specific design clause, as indeed, these are, afterall, aliens we are dealing with.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:I have read on the internet beliefs put forth that the D-# classification was created by Starfleet
Let's see:
The Klingons in "Enterprise" call the ship a D-5. Kor referred to his old ship as a D-5 cruiser. Jefferies painted "D-7" on the TOS model's hull.
Nope, I don't think this theory holds water.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:I have read on the internet beliefs put forth that the D-# classification was created by Starfleet
Let's see:
The Klingons in "Enterprise" call the ship a D-5. Kor referred to his old ship as a D-5 cruiser. Jefferies painted "D-7" on the TOS model's hull.
Nope, I don't think this theory holds water.
I agree with you, but I'd just like to clarify one thing. I don't think Jefferies really assigned any meaning to the symbols he put on the battlecruiser model. At the time they were probably just meaningless alien-looking characters. But then, IIRC, fandom created a complete alphabet for the Klingon language and assigned the characters on the old TOS model the translation of "D-7-4." Okrand may have used the same alphabet when he created the official Klingon language, I don't know though...
On another note, I was reading through The Making of Star Trek the other day and found a quote from Gene Roddenberry that is the apparent origin of the term "D-7." I'm sure some people here have heard this story, but I figured some mightn't have, so here it is:
quote: YES, I THINK WE HAVE AN EXCEPTIONAL CREW. IT�S LIKE A FAMILY. WE HAVE OUR FIGHTS, BUT THERE IS A GREAT AFFECTION FOR EACH OTHER. IT�S LIKE BEING MARRIED TO THIRTY OTHER PEOPLE. YOU BEGIN TO SENSE THEIR MOODS, AND WHEN THEY ARE TIRED, YOU CARE. I WENT ON THE STAGE ONE DAY, AND THEY WERE ALL READY AND WAITING FOR ME, BECAUSE THEY KNEW I WASREALLY EXHAUSTED FROM SOME LONG REWRITE SESSIONS. AS SOON AS I WALKED UP TO THE SET, BILL AND LEONARD BLEW A SCENE, BUT THEY BLEW IT ON PURPOSE AND BEGAN ARGUING VERY VIOLENTLY. BILL WAS SHOUTING AT THE TOP OF HIS VOICE, �LEONARD! WHAT DO YOU MEAN SAYING THIS IS A D-7 KLINGON SHIP? ITS A D-6!� LEONARD SHOUTED BACK, �NO, YOU IDIOT, THE D-6 HAS FOUR DOORS OVER HERE AND THE D-7 ONLY HAS TWO!� BILL IMMEDIATELY SHOUTED BACK, �NO, NO, NO�IT�S THE OTHER WAY AROUND. YOU'VE GOT IT ALL WRONG.� WHILE ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON, I�M STANDING THERE, BEGINNING TO GET FRUSTRATED, WATCHING THE MINUTES TICK BY AND MENTALLY COUNTING THE MONEY WE'RE LOSING IN EXPENSIVE CREW TIME, BECAUSE THE CAMERAS AREN�T ROLLING. AND AS THE ARGUMENT CONTINUED, I�M THINKING TO MYSELF, �WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? THEY'VE GONE TOO FAR!� THEN I BEGAN THINKING THAT I SHOULD REMEMBER WHICH IS THE D-6 OR THE D-7. FINALLY I COULDNT STAND IT ANY MORE, AND SO I WALKED IN BETWEEN THEM AND SAID, �COME ON, FELLOWS, IT REALLY DOESN�T MATTER. LETS GET ON WITH THE SCENE.� THEN THE WHOLE CREW BROKE UP LAUGHING. THIS WAS THEIR WAY OF SAYING TO ME, �HEY, TIME IS NOT THAT SERIOUS. RELAX A LITTLE.� THEY REALLY ARE THE FINEST GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.
I guess that the fandom community sided with Nimoy.
-MMoM Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
In case this really deserves the attention it got, no, Noggra never says he arrived by shuttle in "Sons of Mogh". He mentions a shuttle accident in which Kurn supposedly was injured, but he could have mentioned a transporter accident or an exploding helm console accident just as well - all of those are accidents that typically take place during standard starship operations.
Now, the accident was said to have taken place a few hours prior. Supposedly, one can't reach too many planets from DS9 in just a few hours, be it a ship or a shuttle one is flying. But one could still reach some (think "Dax" or "For the Cause"), so it would make sense for the shuttle in question to be a starship auxiliary shuttling between the ship and a surface.
It would make less sense for a shuttle to have an accident in the middle of nowhere, be it starship auxiliary or an independent vessel. And zero sense for it to have an accident there, and yet reach DS9, unless it indeed was a starship auxiliary and the ship took the injured pilot to the station.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Let's clarify this once and for all:
First:
WORF: There is a man named Noggra... a friend of our father. He will be here in a few hours. He has agreed to provide Kurn with a new identity...and a new family...Noggra will supply all the answers Kurn needs.
Later:
KURN: Where... where am I?
NOGGRA: On a Federation space station. Our shuttle was damaged... you were hit by a plasma discharge.
KURN: I... I don't remember being in a shuttle... in fact, I don't remember anything.
BASHIR: The plasma discharge damaged your hippocampus... you're suffering from a severe form of amnesia. I'm afraid you may never regain all your memory.
Overall, we need to keep in mind the entire conversation was a ruse, trick, deception, pretense, subterfuge...all to "explain" his amnesia. The ship shown could very well be an older style ship or something we havent seen before simply because it belongs to a small klingon family. Nothing in the text can be clarified as truthful regarding what the ship is or could be, consider for a moment that in the 7th season of TNG we saw a Toron-class shuttle for the first time....who is to say this isn't *new* as well...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I just noticed something. Call me crazy, but I think the shuttle seen on Qo'noS in the exterior matte shot near the beginning was the same as the one seen over the Romulan capital in Nemesis!
-MMoM Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
That wasn't confirmed as Qo'nos was it??
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: That wasn't confirmed as Qo'nos was it??
Uh...seemed like that's where it was to me. You were thinking something different?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I was thinking it could be any various Klingon governed planets, they do control an Empire, afterall...I figured since they started the series out at Qo'nos, that it would be odd they would return to it whilst they continue to travel deeper into space...
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
According to the writer, a scene was filmed establishing the planet as Narendra III, but it came off somewhat hokey and expositional and got cut.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
As if the rest of it didnt come off conveniently hokey...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: According to the writer, a scene was filmed establishing the planet as Narendra III, but it came off somewhat hokey and expositional and got cut.
I stand corrected, then.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
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