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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I'm working on an article for the Museum. I'd like to know the highest quoted speeds for USS Enterprise under normal and abnormally juiced conditions (i.e., by Nomad or Kelvins).

Thanks
 
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
I believe the 'Nomad' reference was actually about the weapons it was using: equivelant of 90 photon torpedoes and they were travelling at a speed of warp 15, rather than actually being about the Enterprise, but im not totally sure about this.

"That Which Survives" states w/f 14.1 at which causes core meltdown....

On a quick websearch I found a site , one among many, that states some of the interesting speeds the old enterprise travelled...
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I was actually watching 'The Changling' last night. Nomad was in engineering and bitching about how inefficient Enterprise was. He "effected repairs" to the antimatter intake valve or something and Enterprise went up to warp 11 (I think).

If we assume that power comes from antimatter annihilation in a reactor rather than in the nacelles, I wonder how much power/plasma the nacelles can handle and what kind of speeds are possible with enough power.
 
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
 
If you want to throw TAS into the mix, I seem to remember something from "The Counter-Clock Incident." It takes place after the Enterprise has thrown its tractor beam onto Karla Five's ship (which was cruising along at warp 36). I remember something about the Enterprise hitting warp 20 after being unable to disengage the beam. Unfortunately, I can only remember that from reading Alan Dean foster's novelization, and as it's been more than twenty years since I saw the show (or read the book), I can't be sure if I'm remembering it accurately. If someone has the episode on tape or dvd, maybe they can check to see if that speed (or something close to it) is actually mentioned.
 
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
Unfortunately...(or fortunately) TAS hasn't made it to DVD...legitimately, that is...
 
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Shame.

*ahem*

(from Eric's Excruciatingly Detailed Star Trek (TOS) Plot Summaries)

That Which Survives: Enterprise is knocked 990.7 light years away from the planet. An autopsy performed on the transporter operator by Dr. Sanchez reveals that death resulted from disruption of every cell in his body. Spock does not know what to make of this, but returns to the planet at Warp 8.
(snip)
Scotty saves the Enterprise from exploding by reversing polarity on the magnetic probe and returning the magnetic flow to normal. The Enterprise then begins decelerating from its peak speed of warp 15.2+ (although Rahda counts down warp 14.1, 14, 15.9, ...).


Arena: The Enterprise increases its speed to warp 8 in order to catch the alien.


Day of the Dove: The Enterprise spontaneously accelerates to Warp 9 and traps all but 38 crew members below deck.


The Deadly Years: Kirk immediately races out of the Neutral Zone and into Federation space at Warp 8.


The Enterprise Incident: Luckily, Scott is able to connect the cloaking device to the shields as the Enterprise speeds away at Warp 9.


I, Mudd: Mr. Norman then barges into Engineering, increases speed to Warp 7, and sets up a booby trap to prevent tampering.


Journey to Babel: Chekov subsequently detects a small ship of unknown origin paralleling the Enterprise just out of phaser range at Warp 10.


There's probably more in there but I have some drying paint to go watch...
 
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
I assume that there must be a similar power (energy?) expenditure curve for TOS as for TNG. Warp 11 equals 1331c (not faster than a 24th century ship), and Warp 6 as the nominal top speed is Warp 6 = 216c, I estimate that the power consumption (and therefore the plasma flow rate) is roughly 6 times as high.

While this does not seem out of reach, I don't think that it's realistic though. If it were possible to achieve considerably higher speeds by simply increasing the M/AM flow, why can't Starfleet engineers acomplish that, and if only for a short time? Nomad should have rebuilt the complete engine realistically (just as it wanted to do with "the unit Scott").
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Excuse the crude analogy, but I suppose the warp drive is something like a car. Car engines are of different sizes with peak power levels. The power can be increased temporarily (say by using a more explosive fuel) but the engine might not be able to physically handle it for long periods of time. The wheels and transmission are able to handle this increased power more easily than can the engine (and can also accept larger engines) but also have their physical limits.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Maybe Starfleet redundancies that the Cardassian Engineer Woman from "Destiny" [DS9] was complaining about applies to the TOS era - and that they might have luckily compensated for the times the Enterprise ever went above TNG equivalent of Warp 9 or what ever... although you'd expect that seeing as 24th century ships found it difficult to sustain Warp 9 and that it wasn't the norm - that the top speed of a ship from a century earlier would be warp 7 or 8 maybe? (TNG-scale).
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Andrew: What redundancies was she complaining about? (I haven't seen that ep). Was she suggesting that Starships had too many backup systems so were overly large or complicated?
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I don't recall exactly what aspect of the project she was working on, but they never got near a starship. My guess, considering what they were working on, would be the comm system or the software thereof.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
O'Brien and what's-her-face(Captain Lochley) were in the Pit in Ops. She complained about something being removed that they could have used. O'Brien retorted that they had to get rid of it to make room for a SECOND back-up.

She was incredulous at the idea of them not only having the initial for example, EPS relay - but a back-up AND a second back-up.

O'Brien said such redundancies were Federation requirements. Or something.

Andrew
 
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
That is correct, sir...
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Lochley was a Cardassian?
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Yup - she hid it well - don't you think? [Smile]
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Masao:
If we assume that power comes from antimatter annihilation in a reactor rather than in the nacelles, I wonder how much power/plasma the nacelles can handle and what kind of speeds are possible with enough power.
Assuming a power source that can provide an infinite amount of power within any finite period of time:

The only limitation on the warp drive is the refinement of the warp field coils and the structural integrity of the surrounding support systems.

1) The easy part. If the warp field coils are refined to the level of TNG but you have a J-Class cargo ship's reactor, you're limited to warp 2. This is because the reactor itself cannot handle the power requirements of TNG-era Warp field coil's full potential. Begin with your reactor's ability to safely produce your power requirements without blowing itself up [or irradiating you].

2) The power transfer conduits must be able to handle the load from the reactor to the coils, in the above system the reaction does not take place in the nacelles thus the power from the reaction must travel to the nacelles via something.

3) The refinement of your coils is almost paramount. You can have power generation capabilities beyond the TNG level but if your coils are like Cochrane's you aren't going warp 9.6. Better coils mean a faster theoretical speed [in fact coil refinement (either warp or transwarp) is the only factor for theoretical speed limitation], better reactor means faster potential speed [at least this is one way of saying it].

4) Your coil systems also affect your potential speed. If more speed means more power, thus more plasma, then it also means more heat. If your coolant system cannot handle the heat, you'll end up melting your warp field coils or even the nacelles. -- If your plasma injectors cannot handle the injection rates required for more speed, you won't be able to control the injection rate enough [I doubt you can just open the injectors and it will work right]. -- Etc.

Now, to the real question. What was the highest theoretical speed in TOS? Without any influence from aliens [influence which I should add seems to disappear when the aliens leave, which means that these changes are more than likely powers from the aliens themselves], I would most definately say that the maximum theoretical speed of any TOS ship would be significantly less than the Galaxy Class on the TNG scale [on the scale of at least a warp factor--- and this is on the theoretical side, no amount of change in the potentials will help]. The reason I say this is that I believe the same basic warp field coil refinement processes from the Excelsior was used all the way up to the Galaxy Class [and maybe beyond with a few modification for the warp pollution thing], and the only thing that makes the Galaxy faster than the Excelsior is:

1) reactors:
While the Excelsior could be upgraded to a point, I believe it's old space-frame could only handle so much of that upgrade and it wouldn't be nearly the same [this is only on the ability to support a reactor that could output power comparable to the Galaxy, I don't think the Excelsior could match it].
2) structural strength:
You'd have to replace an entire ship to get it up to the stress tolerances of the Galaxy simply because it is a much stronger ship because of the difference in materials and their refinement.
3) subspace geometry:
I believe there are certain things about the Excelsior that cause it to have more subspace drag, so to speak.

In short, the only thing that limits an Excelsior to a lower speed is it's potential, not it's theoretical capabilities. You might be able to get an Excelsior to give a good race to a Galaxy, doesn't mean it will survive that race or that it won't need heavy modifications before that race. However, because the TOS ships are limited by their theoretical capabilities only refinement changes could affect their ability.

Is that a good answer Masao? [Cool]
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
PS: I forgot to mention that the possibility remains that there have only been three real refinement periods in Earth's warp drives. The first being Cochrane's. The second being the Warp 5, which was more limited by it's power generation. The third is the Excelsior & beyond.
 
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
quote:
1) The easy part. If the warp field coils are refined to the level of TNG but you have a J-Class cargo ship's reactor, you're limited to warp 2. This is because the reactor itself cannot handle the power requirements of TNG-era Warp field coil's full potential.
Well, it might be somewhat faster. As you say later, the 24th century coils are just better. Like new materials can provide a higher efficiency.

But it was definitely a good answer. [Cool]
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
oh... good one Bernd, you caught me. I totally agree. The efficency of the newer coils might utilize energy better and thus the potential limitation won't be reached quite as soon.
 
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Masao:
I'm working on an article for the Museum. I'd like to know the highest quoted speeds for USS Enterprise under normal and abnormally juiced conditions (i.e., by Nomad or Kelvins).

Thanks
Here were go, I'm pretty sure this is as complete as it gets (over w/f 6):
 


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