Aww, crap. As expected, it's "Bounty" for me tonight. Sorry to disappoint - but I'll be back tomorrow evening with "The Expanse", apparently watching it at the same time as you mere mortals.
Mark
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I can't wait for this episode Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Are those new ships I see? Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
Klingon BOPs look exactly like the BOPs we always known![Except for that doodad at the top] BAH Well this puts to rest the theory about BOP being a Romulan/Klingon hybrid for good I suppose.
^Or is it...Braga did hint that Ent takes place in an alternate timeline on the other hand.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheF0rce: ^Or is it...Braga did hint that Ent takes place in an alternate timeline on the other hand.
Please God may this be true.
I am beginning to suspect that someone (probably Riker) dropped a PADD with the schematics of the Akira Class on the floor in FC. Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Sweet mother of Roddenberry! That looks SO INCREDIBLY BAD!!
Klingon BoPs. Why?
Earth ships: - Triangle ships, like I expected. - A ship that would've been nice as a late TOS-TMP era ship. I assume it's just an NX kitbash. Hooray for CGI
Photon torpedoes. BAAAAAAD.
Presumed warp enhancement thingum proven to be torplauncher, EXACTLY like on the Akira.
I think I just might start to consider this series to be non-canon. Or at least hope for an end-of-series-reset-button.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Haven't actually seen the episode, but does NX-01 gets the prize for the longest commercial break/episode span, a whole 14 months (in dry dock)?
Finally, photon(ic) torpedoes... I think I'm gonna go hang myself now, don't any of you try to stop me. *begin knitting a photonic rope*
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: Found page with screencaps, wish I didn't...
Haven't actually seen the episode, but does NX-01 gets the prize for the longest commercial break/episode span, a whole 14 months (in dry dock)?
Finally, photon(ic) torpedoes... I think I'm gonna go hang myself now, don't any of you try to stop me. *begin knitting a photonic rope*
The ship that is in drydock for the next 14 months is NX-02. NX-01 only gets enhancements.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's no BOP. No *regular* BOP, in any case.
Mark
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
God, what's up with Forrest's sleeve stripes. They look different in every episode. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I've just noticed the NX-02 spacedock. It's made out of scaled-up components of the one we see around Enterprise - the same model parts, just bigger. There are three sets of "arms" around the ship, while the other one (obstensibly seen only as stock footage) has four smaller ones plus a cetral supporting structure, outboard collection of antennae and such.
Hey, are we sure we're looking at only one kind of new Starfleet ship? Pictures 18-19 show a ship with winglets on the nacelles, while the other pics seem to show no wings and a blended shovel section design. Also, the glowey bits are different. I think we're looking at two designs here... But to be honest, I'd have much rather preferred a brand new ENT-era Klingon ship than two new Starfleet designs.
Mark
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Hey, are we sure we're looking at only one kind of new Starfleet ship? Pictures 18-19 show a ship with winglets on the nacelles, while the other pics seem to show no wings and a blended shovel section design. Also, the glowey bits are different. I think we're looking at two designs here... But to be honest, I'd have much rather preferred a brand new ENT-era Klingon ship than two new Starfleet designs.
Mark
It certainly looks like 2 types of ship to me. One (the one with the Nova-style (groan) winglets) looks more NX-ish than the other one, which looks like a flying triangle with nacelles.
There appears to be 1 pseudo-Nova and 2 triangle-ships.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Well, let's give it a try.
Earth The Xindi probe appears above Earth. Cool effect. At first it looks like a black hole and then the probe appears. It consists of a sphere with glowy holes and two outer rings. The probe enters Earth orbit and launches its attack. The rings kinda focuse the beam and the sphere rotates from time to time. A town near Lake Okeechobee gets destroyed first by the beam. We then see the beam cut through Cuba. The outer rings detach from the sphere and it flies towards Earth.
Opening Credits
Quo'noS The Klingon Chancellor complains that Archer could escape twice. Duras gets a severe lecture from one of the council members. The Chancellor offers Duras a change to regain his command and honour. Duras promises that he won't fail.
Enterprise The senior staff is waiting in a conference room for Archer, who's speaking to Admiral Forrest. Archer enters the rooms and informs them about the attack (4,000 km scar from Florida to Venezuela, one million casualties). Enterprise is recalled. Archer orders Mayweather to set a course for Earth. Warp 5.
Trip visits Archer in his ready room. He wants to know which part of Florida was hit. Archer doesn't know. Trip mentions his baby sister. He sounds as if he knew that she's dead. Archer tries to comfort him and informs him that the number of casualties has been revised. It's up to 3 million. T'Pol enters the scene and informs them about her talk with Ambassador Soval. A Vulcan transport located the sphere in Central Asia. The parts were brought to Starfleet Headquarters. There was a pilot killed on impact. Malcolm interrupts their talk. 8 Suliban vessels (spheres and coffins) are approaching at high warp. Enterprise is boarded by Suliban and they kidnap Archer.
Suliban vessel Archer meets Silik. At first, Archer thinks that the Suliban are responsible for the attack. Silik brings Archer to the Future Guy. FG tells Archer why Earth was attacked. The probe was sent by the Xindi. They learned that their world would be destroyed by humans in 400 years. They were told so by people from the future. The probe was only a test and the Xindi are building a far more powerful weapon. They will use it to destroy Earth when it is completed. Archer wants to know why FG is telling him this. He says that the Xindi were not supposed to learn about their future. If they deploy this weapon, it will decontaminate the timeline. Archer must prevent this. He returns to Enterprise and the Suliban ships leave.
April 24, 2153 Over 7 million casualties. Enterprise is close-by the Sol-system and is attacked by a Klingon Bird-of-Prey (T'Pol mentions this). Enterprise is crippled and the Klingons are preparing a boarding party, when three Earth vessels approach. I believe the "Norways" are of the same type as the vessel from the opening credits. There are indeed two different classes of Earth ships. Duras has to withdraw. Captain Ramirez (sp?) of the Intrepid contacts Archer and welcomes him.
[ May 21, 2003, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
The BoP looks quite similar to this concept sketch from the Star Trek Exhibition in London. Note the block shaped impulse engines at the top.
But why did they stick the grappler model on the bottom?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Hey cool. A Norway and a Steamrunner. I was waiting for them.
Did you say the name of one of those ships was "Intrepid"? They are running out of shipnames obviously. But they also have an "Enterprise", and this is the past, so 'reusing' might not be the right word to describe it. Did we learn the name of the other one? (Besides, which one is the Intrepid? The Norway or the Pre-pre-Enterprise a.k.a. Steamrunner?)
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Nope, the Intrepid was the only ship mentioned. It's not clear which ship it is, but I'd say it's the "Steamrunner". It looked more advanced than the two others and was probably the lead ship.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Enterprise in Earth orbit Bridge officers look stunned at the "scar".
Starfleet HQ Forrest informs Archer that Starfleet Command has a hard time buying his story. Soval is also present and Archer wants to know what the Vulcans think about his story.
"Our science directory has determined that time travel is impossible."
Archer rolls his eyes. He wants to take Enterprise and find the Xindi. Their homeworld is 3 months away at warp 5. Soval informs them that it's inside the Delphic Expanse, a region of space nearly 2,000 light years across. Vulcan ships have entered it but only few have returned. There have been reports of fierce and dangerous species, unexplained anomalies. In some regions even the laws of physics don't apply. Twenty years ago, a Klingon vessel emerged from the expanse. Every crewman aboard had been anatomically inverted. Soval thinks that it would be foolish to go there. Archer is willing to take the risk. [Is that a model of the Phoenix in the background?] Starfleet needs some kind of proof before they let him go on this mission. Archer shows them that some parts of the probe are from the future. Forrest seems to be convinced. Soval is not. Forrest now shows Archer the body of the Xindi pilot. Looks like a demon from BtVS.
Enterprise in space dock Archer meets with Phlox in sickbay, where a Vulcan physician is waiting for him. The Vulcan wants to examine Archer. Some kind of radiation stuff. The physician asks him a lot of questions about time travel, FG, and his feelings about the fact that many people question his story. Phlox stopps the examination when he finds out that the Vulcan is a psychiatrist analyst, not a pathologist. Phlox gets really angry and Archer asks him to leave the ship.
Florida Trip and Malcolm are standing on the edge of the "scar". Trip shows Malcolm where his sister's house was.
Shuttlepod Archer and Forrest are travelling aboard a shuttlepod. Starfleet Command has given its blessing to Archer's mission. They come-by the NX-02. Forrest mentions that she'll be ready to launch in 14 months. She'll have the same complement of weapons that Enterprise has, once the retrofit is done. 8 or 9 Enterprise crewmembers will leave the ship. Archer asked General Casey for troops. They're non-Starfleet military.
Enterprise sickbay T'Pol and Phlox have a conversation about his decision to stay aboard Enterprise. T'Pol tells him that the High Command has made it clear that they don't want her to enter the Delphic Expanse.
Enterprise armory Malcolm and Trip examine their new toys: photonic torpedoes. Their range is 50 times greater than their conventional torpedoes and they have a variable yield. The tubes have to be reconfigured. Malcolm wants to know if there'll be a memorial for Trip's sister. He mentions that the attack on Earth happened a couple of months ago. Trip's annoyed and doesn't want to talk about it. He just wants to "blow the hell out of these bastards" when they find them.
Starfleet HQ Forrest and Soval show Archer the logs of the Vulcan ship Van'Khara (sp?). This vessel was in the Expanse for two days. The logs show a bunch of crazy Vulcans, trying to kill each other. The vessel was destroyed, probably by its crew.
Soval wants to speak with T'Pol in private. He makes it very clear that she has to obey the High Command's orders. She's reluctant about returning to Vulcan.
Enterprise Archer informs Forrest that they'll take T'Pol back to Vulcan. It's not that far out of their way. They say good bye and Forrest leaves the ship.
Enterprise is released from space dock and powers up its impulse engines.
[ May 21, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Aww...damn, Duras is dead...now what? A bastard son or two slutty sisters chasing Archer...
Reminded me of a cross between 'TWoK' and 'TFF' in the whole 'outer-cloud' sequence...
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Aww...damn, Duras is dead...now what?
What makes you think so?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Aww...damn, Duras is dead...now what?
What makes you think so?
Umm, I hope you are being sarcastic...but I was thinking that the fact that his ship exploded into about 100 pieces on the edge of some feared expanse (even to the Klingons) might be a good indicator that he is dead...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
I feel sick... I've lost all faith in ENT, period.
Finally! A semi-respectable performance by Starfleet at responding to intruders in Sector 001! Duras is jumped minutes after attacking the NX-01. Of course, this is several weeks after the attack by the probe, so most of Starfleet's ships have probably been recalled and are just patrolling the star system with their fingers on their hair trigger. It's disappointing that Earth never invested in a planetary defense network, which might have reduced or eliminated that 7 million dead figure. Maybe this event pushed Earth into deploying the systems that were the grandfathers of the systems mentioned in ST:IV and DS9's "Paradise Lost".
Frankly, the probe wasn't that impressive. It cut a really long line, but the line wasn't really all that wide. Not very impressed by the choice of target, and highly skeptical that it could have killed 7 million people by cutting a straight line that's probably less than a kilometer wide. A hell of a lot of ultra high density cities would have to have been lying in a straight line for it to accomplish that. Anyone wonder why the Xinidididinieneses didn't just bomb Earth? They could have done a lot more damage if they just packed the probe full of Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles with antimatter warheads. Off the shelve technology, those antimatter warheads seems to be...
Photonic torpedoes... Yes ladies and gentlemen, they are indeed antimatter weaponary, capable of operating at warp! They even look exactly like TNG-era torpedoe casings! I think I'm gonna be sick! This show cannot possible get any worst, tech-wise! I mean, phase cannons? Photonic torpedoes? Who are they trying to fool with those pathetic names?! I hope B&B get some serious photonic sodomy!
How many torpedoe launchers does that NX-01 have? Right now my count is 3 rear, and possibly 3 forward (it looked like the torpedoes that destroyed Duras's ship came from a location closer to the centerline of the NX than the spatial torpedoe launchers). Heeeeeeello 'Warship Enterprise'.
Upgraded hull plating. How the heck does that work? If we assume the full plating are in fact the "run-charge-though-plate-to-make-it-stronger" type, then the entire external hull would have to have been re-plated.
NX-01 gets ground troops, and another acknowledgement of the existence of a stand-alone military organization on Earth. So at this time, the defense of the planet is still handled by a separate military, versus later on, ex. TOS-era and after. I bet they will be armed and equiped and looks just like ordinary security officers, except they smile less.
The warp 5 engine uses multiple antimatter injectors, which is rather strange, since from what we've seen and heard of the engine from previous episodes, there should be only one. If there are several, as in more than 3, they must be really small, if we assume those pylons going into the 'warp core' houses the injectors.
NX-01 maintained warp 5 for 7 weeks?!?! Considering that's like the maximum speed for the vessel, it's rather hard to believe. Most vessels we've seen could only maintain their top speed for hours at best.
Those BoPs are too much like the ones found in TMP and after for my liking, but they could have been worst as well. The Klingons does have energy shielding after all, strong enough to stop maxed yield photon torpedoes if focused in one direction.
ENT-era dock seems like a combination of Earth Station McKinly-type docks and TMP dry docks. Looks of latter, function of former.
Did I mention I hate B&B?
Did I mention I hate Vulcans? Their arrogance has reached a point beyond toleration. No race that holds logic so highly would act as foolishly as they have done for the past two season, especially in regards to their treatment of science. The Vulcans almost seem to shun exploration and discovery, and are stagnant. I wonder if the Vulcan Science Directory is a bunch of scientists, or a bunch of 17th Century Popists.
I hope Phlox and Porthos goes crazy and kills everyone.
Chef stays onboard. Duh. Can't lose the ship's Invisible Recurring Character. Or is that Mayweather?
NX flies into a cloud and does a loop to get behind Duras's ship. I can't believe anyone would fall for that. Must be the script.
Finally, I think B&B might be racists. They seem to believe that character traits can be passed down through genes. The traits of being incompetent, tratourous idiots is obviously coded into the genes of the Duras family.
Did I miss anything?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Duras's BoP The Klingons are preparing for their next attack.
Enterprise mess hall Archer and Trip have a wee drop. They talk about Porthos, T'Pol, and the importance of their mission.
The ship's attacked again by Duras. This time they're prepared and they fire two photonic torpedoes from the pod launcher. The Klingons are taken by surprise. We learn that the photonic torpedoes contain antimatter warheaads (what a surprise) and that Enterprise's hull plating has been enhanced. The BoP's warp drive is failing and they have to break off their attack.
Talk between Archer and T'Pol about human food, human smell and human emotions in the ready room. T'Pol doesn't wish to return to Vulcan. She has decided to resign her commission. It's no time for her to leave. Archer tells her that they'll be allright but T'Pol insists on staying aboard. She tells him that he needs her. Archer leaves the ready room and tells the bridge crew that they're not going to Vulcan. He orders Mayweather to set a course for the Delphic Expanse.
7 weeks later Enterprise arrives at the border of the perimeter cloud, some sort of nebula that is around the Expanse. Enterprise heads into it.
6 hours later Duras's back. This time with 3 BoPs. Duras makes some threats but Archer isn't impressed. Enterprise is now in close vicinity of the Expanse. Two BoPs back off. Their captains are afraid of the Expanse. Only Duras's ship is still pursuing Enterprise. They can't use their torpedoes because Duras has strengthened his forward shields. So, Enterprise attacks his weakly shielded stern and destroys the BoP.
Enterpise finally enters the Expanse.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Aww...damn, Duras is dead...now what?
What makes you think so?
Umm, I hope you are being sarcastic
Nope, I hadn't seen the end of the episode when I posted my question and didn't know what you were talking about.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
�So next year, it�ll be �Voyager� on a �Crusade�?� - My parents, after watching "The Expanse"
My god, this episode was so goddamn BORING! But this isn't an opinion review, it's a tech review. So here goes...
-- Did anyone else think "DEATH STAR" when they saw the Xindi probe firing?
-- In Duras' first attack, Reed mentions that "both port phase cannons are down." Um... last we saw, the NX-01 only had two starboard cannons, and only one port cannon. Unless they magically made up parts for more weapons the same way that Voyager made parts for more shuttles...
-- I'm almost positive that that "Bird of Prey" ship was actually just the same D5-class cruiser that we saw before, just a lot more maneuverable and kewl-looking.
-- Okay, so now we've got the Norway and the Steamrunner to complement the Akira. So much for a prequel series.
-- The first description of the Delphic Expanse said it was "three months away" at Warp 5. Last time I checked, 7 weeks is not equivalent to 3 months...
-- Did they say "photon" or "photonic" torpedoes? Either way, they've got antimatter warheads. Go figure...
-- Granted there were a couple of time cuts, but it seems that getting from Earth to Vulcan in 1 day at Warp 3, then 2 more days at Warp 4.5. Meh.
-- "His pattern seems to indicate... two dimensional thinking." Nice to know that even in the past, which is the future, nothing changes...
That's about all for now. *sigh*
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
^Actually I posted it right after it happened...
Upon rewatching it:
I see nothing wrong with the name of Captain Ramirez's ship "Intrepid". The lineage has to start somewhere, just like it did with the "Enterprise".
And as far as having retro "Norway" "Steamrunner" and "Akira" classes, I don't see that that is so far a reach, especially if Starship designers were going back to the retro designs. Look how much the "Constitution" and "Ambassador" resemble each other, or the circular primary hulled "Daedalus" and "Olympic/Hope" resemblence. Think of nowaday motor vehicles, and how they make the new Ford Thunderbirds or Volkswagon Bugs and how they still resemble their antiquated counterparts...
How, in around 2553~2573, did Earth attack the Xindi? Was the Federation not formed, or did it disband sometime in the 100 years following the Dominion War for the Xindi to specify Earth as the attacker and not the Federation or any of the other member planets?
According to the CC spelling, the Vulcan ship was called the: Vaankara....the Vulcan 'pathologist'/psychiatric analysts' name was: Dr. Fer'at.
And...just how long did the Enterprise take to get refit? Seems like it was well more than a week, in whichever case, Duras seemed to be just outside of the Terran System as they were within range of the Enterprise before it went into warp, suggesting he was lingering around Earth for quite a while unnoticed....just seems like one hell of a loophole to me... Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
That Xindi probe entrance reminds me of how the Borg Sphere in First Contact entered 2067's to fire on Earth. How nice.
I don't mind the Intrepid, I don't mind the Klingon BOP, and I really don't mind the phase canons just appearing out of nowhere... but everything else kinda bothers me. I hope the series ends after the third season.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: That Xindi probe entrance reminds me of how the Borg Sphere in First Contact entered 2067's to fire on Earth. How nice.
And funly enough it enters orbit exactly where The E-E did - when we see Borgafied earth - we see Florida, Cuba etc.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
God. People whining about photo torpeedos is exactly why I dont come to these forums very often.
The tech of trek is cool and all but some people just take it way too seriously.
It was a very enjoyable episode and better then anything else on at the time. I'm willing to put money on Enterprise lasting seven seasons.
Cue Comic Book Guy image.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Yay! They are using the original series Starfleet Logo as seen in Starbases and on the pennent of the Enterprise!
Andrew
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
I was outside smoking a joint for the last two years?
I'm sorry, did I hear there is a new series where the whole story premise where Berman goes back in time and fucks up star trek history.
Cool what is it called?
Hey at least in the 24th century they filled the hole in Florida Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
As I watched the Vaankara tape, I had terrible flashbacks to Event Horizon. This film, released in the mid-1990's, was the story of a lost ship which had returned from an unknown place. The crew of the rescue ship watched a log of the Event Horizon's crew raging against each other and when the tape ends there is a brief glimpse of one crewmember's face. The tape of the Vaankara was very reminescent of this film's logs down to the murderous rage of the crew and the camera suddenly focusing on the dying face of a crew member. For me, this was Star Trek parody.
For my mother, she didn't believe Florida would be above water in 2153. She thinks Florida will be flooded by rising waters.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: I'm almost positive that that "Bird of Prey" ship was actually just the same D5-class cruiser that we saw before, just a lot more maneuverable and kewl-looking.
Nope. The D5 from "Judgment" is quite distinct from the pre-BoP design, but it *is* however the same as the deuterium tanker from "Marauders."
-MMoM Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Spike, I see you have placed ENT in the Alternate Realities section. Bravo! Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Spike, I see you have placed ENT in the Alternate Realities section. Bravo!
Hooray! Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Spike, I see you have placed ENT in the Alternate Realities section. Bravo!
Yes, I have, but not because I don't like the show. Firstly, it explains almost all continuity errors. Secondly, Braga more or less confirmed this theory. And thirdly, I want to enjoy the show.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: Secondly, Braga more or less confirmed this theory.
What did he actually say?
Please can this be an alternate timeline...
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
When asked about continuity discrepancies in "Regeneration", Braga replied the "timeline has been altered".
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I think that comes from his comments on "Regeneration". And besides, if he can ignore all the other series, we can ignore Enterprise
But seriously, placing Enterprise in a different reality would be a rather clean way to explain all the 'errors' to the more loyal fans that have grown up with quite a different view of Star Trek, while still giving enough eye-candy for the occasional viewer.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: For my mother, she didn't believe Florida would be above water in 2153. She thinks Florida will be flooded by rising waters.
Best comment ever.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: I think that comes from his comments on "Regeneration". And besides, if he can ignore all the other series, we can ignore Enterprise
But seriously, placing Enterprise in a different reality would be a rather clean way to explain all the 'errors' to the more loyal fans that have grown up with quite a different view of Star Trek, while still giving enough eye-candy for the occasional viewer.
I really like that idea. It seems rather likely that someone left ship plans on Earth in FC, which would explain the design similarities. Perhaps they also left some tech information, which would explain the early introduction of photon torpedoes, transporters, etc.
And it is a nice reason why Enterprise is called Enterprise, considering that it appears to have been called "Dauntless" in the real/other timeline.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Likeliest comment ever.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Screw that. I recognise Enterprise as canon and completely throw out TOS's final season, TAS, STV and the "transwarp devolvment" episode of Voyager. Basically anything that makes me scream "What numb fuck wrote this crap and how in fuck did this get O.K.'d by anyone?!?". Yes, I know, Voyager has several more of these moments, but I'm sleepy and don't want to get riled up just now. Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I recognise Enterprise as canon and completely throw out TOS's final season, TAS, STV and the "transwarp devolvment" episode of Voyager.
Why the final season of TOS? And if you throw out that, why not seasons 1 and 2 as well?
If I were to do a "throwing things out of canon" theory, I'd probably remove all of TOS, TMP, TFF, INS, Trials and Tribble-ations (DS9), Threshold (aka The One With Bad Science) (VOY), The One With Scotty (TNG), probably most of the Q episodes, and the silliest Voyager episodes to boot (I'm not even going to bother listing the silly episodes that don't particularly stick out).
Oh, and I could remove the "we can't replicate torpedoes" comment, and the entire "we haven't got a backup warp core, that one's just a cardboard cutout" episode.
This is fun. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
TAS is canon - Uhura dancing naked in TFF is not. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Don't forget the " Leave the CMO and a bunch of rookies on the ship with the motherfucking BORG in the area while we empty the ship of anyone worth shit to look for ONE AWOL crewman". What was the name of that episode? I think it was "What the fuck are you thinking!?"
I'd only have to ditch the truly horrid episodes of TOS: much of it was really good for it's time. Crap like "Spock's Brain" or the ones with gangsters, nazis or greek gods have to be chocked up to 60's drug experimentation and excised from the timeline.
The "Dr. Crusher scottish ghost story" needs to go, as does the TNG crew devolving into monsters crap (a idea so damn bad they used it again in Voyager).
ANY historical figures still being alive and well in the future needs to go for sure: Amelia Earheart is alive and well (and still wearing the same clothes!) on an alien planet at the assend of the Galaxy? Drugs are bad.
Hey, you're right: this IS fun! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: TAS is canon - Uhura dancing naked in TFF is not.
Uhura dancing naked is akin to french kissing Chtuhlu. Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Don't forget the " Leave the CMO and a bunch of rookies on the ship with the motherfucking BORG in the area while we empty the ship of anyone worth shit to look for ONE AWOL crewman". What was the name of that episode? I think it was "What the fuck are you thinking!?"
I'd only have to ditch the truly horrid episodes of TOS: much of it was really good for it's time. Crap like "Spock's Brain" or the ones with gangsters, nazis or greek gods have to be chocked up to 60's drug experimentation and excised from the timeline.
The "Dr. Crusher scottish ghost story" needs to go, as does the TNG crew devolving into monsters crap (a idea so damn bad they used it again in Voyager).
ANY historical figures still being alive and well in the future needs to go for sure: Amelia Earheart is alive and well (and still wearing the same clothes!) on an alien planet at the assend of the Galaxy? Drugs are bad.
Hey, you're right: this IS fun!
In addition, we can remove every single holodeck episode of Voyager.
And we can do the same with the Intruder Friendly Operating Systems from Basics.
And The One Where 8472 Pretend To Be Humans.
And The One With The People Whom Everyone Forgets.
Ooh, and 11:59.
The problem I have with TOS is the way SF goes from decent (ENT) to rubbish (TOS) to decent again (TNG/DS9/VOY). So either I can place ENT in a different timeline, and excuse its decentness by saying it got it from the E-E in FC, or I can remove TOS (and the episodes from the other series which refer to it). I think I'd rather just treat everything as canon and place ENT in a different timeline, to be honest. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Jesus! I had blocked out the god-awful "captain Janeway falls in love on the Holodeck" nightmare!!!! Fuck. Now I'll wake up screaming again. Thanks alot Phoenix.
I'd really love to see Starfleet Command's debrifing on her screwing photons and the effect it must have had on the crew's morale.
If anyone ever mentions the word "continuity" all you have to say is Dork Frontier andd the conversation sputters to a halt right there.
As a starship designer I really have to question the brainiacs that made the Promethous: "a ship so advanced that only 12 easily killed, unarmed officers can fly it and they *upgrade* the EMH to andy Dick". Why not go all the way and have a holographic Jerry Lewis to run the ship too?
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Jesus! I had blocked out the god-awful "captain Janeway falls i love on the Holodeck" nightmare!!!! Fuck. Now I'll wake up screaming again. Thanks alot Phoenix.
If you like I could post screenshots? Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Jesus! I had blocked out the god-awful "captain Janeway falls i love on the Holodeck" nightmare!!!! Fuck. Now I'll wake up screaming again. Thanks alot Phoenix.
If you like I could post screenshots?
I'll damn you to hell with my dying breath if you do.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: -- In Duras' first attack, Reed mentions that "both port phase cannons are down." Um... last we saw, the NX-01 only had two starboard cannons, and only one port cannon. Unless they magically made up parts for more weapons the same way that Voyager made parts for more shuttles...
Sorry for the delay, but I've only just seen the episode. Reed actually says "both forward phase cannons are down". He slurs the word a bit, but it's definitely "forward".
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
On-topic, folks.
Mark <---Stooooopid VCR
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Sorry for the delay, but I've only just seen the episode. Reed actually says "both forward phase cannons are down". He slurs the word a bit, but it's definitely "forward".
Hmm, that sounds reasonable. We can blame it on the bad British accent. Posted by EvilTree (Member # 1027) on :
Having missed most of S2, I heard it was the season finale so I thought might as watch it for shits and giggles.
Boy, was I disappointed.
Plotwise, it doesn't keep you interested. Seemed like broken fragments of a bad storied that was put together by a child.
To me it was like typical VOY ep.
And then there is stupid Archer who keeps Duras alive by only disabling his ship. Is there a captain who's more stupid than him?
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by EvilTree: And then there is stupid Archer who keeps Duras alive by only disabling his ship. Is there a captain who's more stupid than him?
Have you ever seen Janeway?
Actually, I think the Worst Captain Ever award probably should go to the Prometheus' Captain, who managed to lose the most powerful ship in Starfleet to a bunch of Romulans.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by EvilTree: And then there is stupid Archer who keeps Duras alive by only disabling his ship.
Have you ever heard the saying "Don't kick a man when he's down"? Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"the ones with gangsters, nazis or greek gods"
So, all the best ones, then?
Ok, maybe just "A Piece of the Action," but come on! A classic by any definition.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Not by mine (while readily admitting that I am perhaps not the most, erh, qualified person to judge on classicalities).
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
quote:Originally posted by Proteus: God. People whining about photo torpeedos is exactly why I dont come to these forums very often. The tech of trek is cool and all but some people just take it way too seriously. It was a very enjoyable episode and better then anything else on at the time. I'm willing to put money on Enterprise lasting seven seasons.
Yeah... well I'm like Nigel Powers [or was it Austin]:
There are only two things I hate: People who are intolerate of other people. And the Dutch.
Well in my case it's people who cannot allow others to enjoy the aspects they enjoy, and people like you!
Those of us in this forum get as much out of the characters and plots as we do out of the tech and in-jokes.
As far as I'm concerned you don't have to come to this forum, though that's not my decision. I'd also recommend you grow up a little, and allow others to enjoy the things they enjoy--- and complain about the mistakes they see in the things they enjoy.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by EvilTree: And then there is stupid Archer who keeps Duras alive by only disabling his ship. Is there a captain who's more stupid than him?
Well you got to give him credit, when Archer finally got pissed off enough he DID destroy Duras' ship...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Also, Enterprise has got the highest crew survivability rating of ANY main series starship EVER. He may be leaving lots of bad guys alive, but he gets his crew home.
Mark
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
What crew? Unlike the other shows, in my opinion where we got to know someone other than the mains, we just have the mains here. On very rare occasions, there is a mention of the other crew members. I don't know why they didn't simply have a small ship with a crew of seven.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
What you mean like on TNG, where 99% of all away teams consisted of only the highest ranking bridge officers? Gee, lets see...we have over 1000 crewmwn and most of them are specialists in some scientific field or another so Riker says...."Geordi, Troi, Worf, Data: you're with me." Hell the CMO went on EVERY away team where any medical staff could have gone! Them's smart thinkin'.
At least Enterprise is avery small ship and lots of crew are presumably needed to stay put to keep her running: Luxury casinos need more regular maintence than the Enterprise D did. ...and casinos have smaller rooms! Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
"Unlike the other shows, in my opinion where we got to know someone other than the mains..."
...
Yes. For instance, we got sooo intimitely acquainted with VOY's Carey, it was actually REFRESHING to have him killed off! And besides, he sucked up far too much precious screentime from Photon Boy & Two of Double-D, whose characters were sooo dramatically UNDERUSED you'd almost begin to think the show revolved around him and everyone else was an extra!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Just noticed something about the weapons upgrades. The aft launcher is in that damned pod, from which we've seen stuff launch before. However, the forward launcher is a NEW port on the ventral centerline between the existing launchers. You can barely see it in the climactic battle, being fairly obscured by cloudy stuff.
This conflicts a little with the dialogue, in which Trip asks Reed about the refitting of the tubes. I suppose they could be talking baout the aft tube, though. Still, it looks like the new photonic torps are independent from the old weapons, which they are obviously keeping around. With any luck, this could make for some nice "guns blazing" FX shots next year. OTOH, they have made lots of gaffes with the phase cannons this year, so...
Also, now that they've spent a few weeks in drydock, most of these changes can probably be explained away. I think we can also conclusively state that the armory set is not one of two, with each tube being served by a launcher and loader device. It's apparent now that the armory set is centralized with the loading device only part of the mechanism. Another note is that they may have a limitation on how many photonic torpedoes they can launch at a go; that stacking thing carried only so many, and unless there's something in the ceiling that loads it again (like a pistol magazine, maybe) they may have trouble rapid-firing a lot of 'em.
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye the third launcher can only fire the Photonic Torpedos: it may need to be at the centerline for ease of antimatter injection and the old tubes are for probes and the off chance that Hoshi gets to cook for the crew again.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Mabye the third launcher can only fire the Photonic Torpedos: it may need to be at the centerline for ease of antimatter injection and the old tubes are for probes and the off chance that Hoshi gets to cook for the crew again.
From what Reese said, it sounded like he was integrating the photon torpedoes into existing launchers, not installing new launchers. Ooops.
Now taking bets on how long it'd take for a crew member to screw up and call photonic torpedoes photon torpedoes.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, they've managed to go two years without anyone calling 'em "phasers", so...
Mark
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
And really, unlike with phase pistols--where there could conceivably be some technobabble difference with phasers--an antimatter torpedo is an antimatter torpedo, so there shouldn't be any big deal with interchanging "photon" and "photonic."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Hmm, that sounds reasonable. We can blame it on the bad British accent.
The bad British accent from the guy born in Leicester, England? How does that work?
quote:Originally posted by Spike: When asked about continuity discrepancies in "Regeneration", Braga replied the "timeline has been altered".
Not to upset your little "I want to put Enterprise in an alternative timeline because I smell of wee" apple-cart, but Star Trek has been in an alternative timeline since at least "Yesterday's Enterprise", and possibly as far back as "Tomorrow is Yesterday". So that makes about 95% of all filmed Trek non-canon. Woo.
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: "the ones with gangsters, nazis or greek gods"
So, all the best ones, then?
Ok, maybe just "A Piece of the Action," but come on! A classic by any definition.
It is. But did you see the rest of Pheonix's selection of "bad" episodes?
"I'd probably remove all of TOS, TMP, TFF, INS, Trials and Tribble-ations (DS9), Threshold (aka The One With Bad Science) (VOY), The One With Scotty (TNG), probably most of the Q episodes, and the silliest Voyager episodes to boot (I'm not even going to bother listing the silly episodes that don't particularly stick out)."
While I agree with Threshold, you'd have to have a crayon lodged in your brain to think that "Trails and Tribble-ations", "Relics", "Q Who", "True Q", or "Tapestry" are all bad episodes.
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: �So next year, it�ll be �Voyager� on a �Crusade�?� - My parents, after watching "The Expanse"
I never ever want to meet your parents. I feel the spontanious and oh-so-witty quips would cause my heart to leap onto my face in an attempt to make me suffocate to death.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: While I agree with Threshold, you'd have to have a crayon lodged in your brain to think that "Trails and Tribble-ations", "Relics", "Q Who", "True Q", or "Tapestry" are all bad episodes.
Sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear.
The reason I removed most of those episodes is for continuity reasons. If I have removed TOS, I can hardly have TAT and Relics referring directly back to it, can I?
I removed Threshold because it's nonsense, and the Q one because of the number of times people didn't ask Q for help. Riker in BOBW should at least have shouted out "Q! We get the idea! We're not ready! Now kill that ship!", and something similar for Sisko and the Dominion. And as to why Janeway never asked to be taken home...
Well I'd rather not dwell on that.
Relics and TAT are two of my favourite episodes, and I really like some of the Q ones, but I just don't see how they fit into continuity. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
People didn't ask Q for help because he wouldn't have responded.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Yeah, I dont think Q is running a volunteer service...
...an escort service, however, we have seen him run, on occation... Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: People didn't ask Q for help because he wouldn't have responded.
How do they know that?
He turns up enough...
If I knew an omnipotent being and my species was about to be defeated by the Dominion, I'd definitely try to ask him.
And Janeway met him several times without asking him to get her home. She even helped end a Civil War in the Q Continuum and didn't ask for his help.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Because she was a moron? Because it would have ended the series? It certainly would have been the smart thing to do for her crew's sake if nothing else.... How many crewmen died after that episode?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
in Q-Who, Picard practically begged for Q to spare the lost crewmembers, to no avail.. Q's wishes are Q's wishes, requests are irrelevant.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Because she was a moron? Because it would have ended the series? It certainly would have been the smart thing to do for her crew's sake if nothing else.... How many crewmen died after that episode?
The fact that it would have ended the series is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I merely stated which episodes and films I would remove if I could do that to create my own personal canon. If you don't agree, fine, but don't complain about my choice, because I have every right to have my own opinion, and I'm not going to change it merely because you are all insulting me.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
How do you know Q they didn't ask Q for help?
And, if you really want to drag this out, maybe Q didn't help because he knew that in all cases the Federation would surive and learn from the experience. Maybe if they were faced with annihalation, he would help. But they haven't been, so he hasn't.
Apart from in "All Good Things", where he did help (sort of).
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: And, if you really want to drag this out, maybe Q didn't help because he knew that in all cases the Federation would surive and learn from the experience. Maybe if they were faced with annihalation, he would help. But they haven't been, so he hasn't.
Or maybe he was hoping they would be annihilated, so that he could finally be rid of humanity. A greivously savage child-race, the lot of them!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Because she was a moron? Because it would have ended the series? It certainly would have been the smart thing to do for her crew's sake if nothing else.... How many crewmen died after that episode?
The fact that it would have ended the series is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I merely stated which episodes and films I would remove if I could do that to create my own personal canon. If you don't agree, fine, but don't complain about my choice, because I have every right to have my own opinion, and I'm not going to change it merely because you are all insulting me.
Hey! I'm not insulting you! Jerk! Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: And, if you really want to drag this out, maybe Q didn't help because he knew that in all cases the Federation would surive and learn from the experience. Maybe if they were faced with annihalation, he would help. But they haven't been, so he hasn't.
Perhaps, but remember that in "Parallels," we saw an alternate reality (or at least people from one) where the Borg DID destroy the Federation...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Then that was up to the Q of that reality.
Regardless, the Q have given absolutly no indication that they'd even lift a finger if the universe was going to be wiped out, as long as they'd be okay. Our Q does show some signs of actually liking humanity, since in addition to carrying out the Q's sentence that humanity be wiped out, he also helped Picard figure out how to save humanity. And you could also argue that Q helped humanity fight the Borg by letting them know that they were coming.
But regardless, having the crew ask the local deus ex machina for help every time they were in danger would make no sense dramatically, and no sense from a character point of view. The one time Picard did ask for help, he was refused. Wiping the Q out of continuity because of some strange idea that the crew should get down on their knees and prey to them is ever so slightly absurd.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote: How do they know that?
He turns up enough...
If I knew an omnipotent being and my species was about to be defeated by the Dominion, I'd definitely try to ask him.
And Janeway met him several times without asking him to get her home. She even helped end a Civil War in the Q Continuum and didn't ask for his help.
Keep in mind Q did offer to take Janeway home if she agreed to do the nasty with him...
...so you can't say he didn't offer...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [QB] Jesus! I had blocked out the god-awful "captain Janeway falls in love on the Holodeck" nightmare!!!! Fuck. Now I'll wake up screaming again. Thanks alot Phoenix.
I'd really love to see Starfleet Command's debrifing on her screwing photons and the effect it must have had on the crew's morale.
What? It's only a 24th century vibrator! She just turned the holodeck into a holosuite.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Finally saw this ep, and from what I saw, I dig the earth ships.
The "Steamrunner" design looks like basically an NX class saucer with 1 catamaran down the center line and the two nacelles breaking off of it.
The "Norway" design looks like a big triangle with little folded up nacelle struts.
I'm going to look the screen caps over and try to put together a couple of sketches, though I bet Reverand could do better. Posted by Darkwing (Member # 834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix:
quote:Originally posted by TheF0rce: ^Or is it...Braga did hint that Ent takes place in an alternate timeline on the other hand.
Please God may this be true.
I am beginning to suspect that someone (probably Riker) dropped a PADD with the schematics of the Akira Class on the floor in FC.
Yes, Braga said it. I don't have the link off hand, but the star trek Board at tvshowboards.com had an article. Unfortunately the site seems to be down this morning. Basically, though, he said that First Contact branched out a new timeline, and that's where ENT takes place.
Posted by Darkwing (Member # 834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: TAS is canon - Uhura dancing naked in TFF is not.
Uhura dancing naked is akin to french kissing Chtuhlu.
It wou;dn't have been if we could've seen it during TOS, but, yeah, by the time of ST5, it sure was.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It's what I've said from day one - ENT does not happen a hundred years before TOS. It happens a hundred years after "First Contact". If you take a look at it from that perspective, the series makes a whole lot more sense. I still think that it can fit into the continuity - over the past two years we've managed to explain away just about everything on this forum.
Mark
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
To be pedantic (again), the timeline has changed roughly 7 billion times since we first saw "The Man Trap". If you wanted to, you could place every single episode of Star Trek in one of the many, many alternative dimensions that we've seen ("Parallels" was fun).
So yeah, Enterprise could be a new timeline. But it's almost certainly a timeline that still contains TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.
Posted by Darkwing (Member # 834) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: To be pedantic (again), the timeline has changed roughly 7 billion times since we first saw "The Man Trap". If you wanted to, you could place every single episode of Star Trek in one of the many, many alternative dimensions that we've seen ("Parallels" was fun).
So yeah, Enterprise could be a new timeline. But it's almost certainly a timeline that still contains TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.
If it did, Braga wouldn't have needed to say anything. I feel that ENT is now free of TOS/TNG/DS9/VGR, and this is a good thing. Now the Romulan War can happen anytime, and the ending isn't pre-ordained. Earth can lose. The xindi War can prevent the Romulan War. The Federation may or may not come to be. The future is open-ended again. As long as the "original" timeline is available to tell stories in, let ENT be it's own universe. Darkwing
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
But it basically means that Enterprise lost its purpose... it's no longer a prequel series, it's just a... bad sci-fi series (and yes, I don't like Enterprise. After 'Night in Sickbay' it is clear to me that Archer doesn't have any qualifications to command anything - and if the producers still insist that he's a good captain then there's something very wrong with the series... )
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Bumparoo!
With the premiere happening next week, let's look over the tech "The Expanse" brought us. We discovered a whole schqack of stuff about Earth, but we'll not be seeing any more of it anytime soon...
Any further thoughts?
Mark
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Photonic torpedoes gave me stomach ulcers.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
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