What is the actual purpose of the 'control room' above the hanger bay doors? On the refit model, it's just a bulge with painted-on windows, that glow red. Was that a detail that got half-finished or is it actually supposed to be a control room?
In ST: V, We saw Mr. Scott directing shuttle landings from the inside-the-bay control room, with the hanger taking-up the entire height of the aft end of the hull, leaving no space for a deck up there.
Shane Johnson (correct me if I'm wrong) referred to that above-the-doors control room as being for all outside flight operations, as well as being the aft-dorsal phasor control room. Why would they need a 'conning tower' anyway, since it would all be with sensors and view screens anyway.
On the TOS Enterprise, that space was used for a navigation light, landing beacon, sensor suite, landing tractor beam, and force-field generator.
I propose that those glowing red windows are landing lights and sensor beacons. Quite possibly mounted in the space that had been designed to be a flight operations room.
I can't speak for Shane, but I think it's a pretty good guess it's supposed to be a manual control room.
In Andy Probert's cutaway drawing of the TMO ship you can see he drew small human figures in that area, one of whom is seated.
I think the shape of the room is such so there are windows that look down itno the hangar deck as well. If you look at Andy's matte painting layout for the low shot in the cargo bay (bottom of page 167 of The Art of Star Trek), you can see two reddish rectangles in exactly were you'd expect them to be based on that cutaway (we'll probably never know if they were visible in the final matte painting, as a Work Bee with cargo pods obscures that area.
As to the red lit windows: Red light is the hardest for humans to see (because of the wavelength) and my guess is that the room is lit red so the controllers eye's don't have to adjust so much for looking into the dark outside.
Finally, as to why a manual control room: I'd say it's an a manual override and monitor station. Plus, it's a good place for Kirk to take alien babe's and look out into space (a la "The Conscience of the King").
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Thanks, I had complewtely overlooked his cut-away drawing.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
From what I wrote in the other thread:
quote:I've always wondered that myself, tho I disagree that they're just "painted-on" windows. They appear to be well-flushed windows in most of the pics I've seen, and that includes the B & W pics at the StarshipBuilder site.
Anyhow, I believe the original intent was for it to be the primary hangar control room. I was under the impression that one or more controllers would be able to view out thru either the outside set of windows or an internal set of windows just over the bay doors that would look forward into the hangar bay. I drew this conclusion from the various pics/screen caps from TMP that appear on your site, Woozle, as well as some few other pics I've seen along those lines.
Technically, there's no reason why there couldn't be two hangar bay control rooms, tho it would be a waste of personnel, IMO. You could have the one that handles all approach control aspects and would hand-off to the interior control room from ST:V, which would handle actual landing & taxiing operations. That scene in ST:V certainly didn't show anyone in the outer control room windows, tho that doesn't mean someone wasn't there. It's also possible that there are automated systems in place that don't actually require anyone in the outer control room, but standard procedure - when the ships not on a skeleton crew - calls for someone to be there to at least monitor in the event of systems failures.
Just my thinking on it all.
I forgot about that first pic, thanks for bringing it up, Woozle. I still think they're mostly flushed windows. The unevenness of the lower windows might be due to a poor paint job meant to cover them over w/a flourescant paint. That is a pic of an unlit studio model, after all. If you'll also note the lower windows on the left side appear to be somewhat sunken into the hull, what I'd consider to be mostly flush.
Posted by TheYoshinator (Member # 1066) on :
I thought you guys would have realized by now that since that first pic is of the "A". It would be understood why it looks so bad. "Big E" took a pounding over the years and is now just a shadow of her former glory.
To add to this. Lets not forget the sides. There are the corridor with the large square windows above where the Workbee's dock. From what I can tell they don't run all the way from for to aft. They are sorta like piers on each side connected for. Its possible they served as internal "hand-off" stations for the TMP E. Purhaps they were mearly observation decks. IIRC These are roughly based on the TOS hanger. Any guesses?
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
Two things:
1- I believe they are actually Observation Decks - possibly the ones Kirk utilized in 'Conceince...".
2- I think they are supposed to be the actual ones left over from before the refit.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I can just envision walking down the clean, pristine deck, and stepping into this dingy observation wing, with grimy, pockmarked windows and a quarter inch of different layers of gray, chipping paint. The floor probably even gives a little when somebody walks along it. If you look carefully, up, inside the shuttle bay, there's probably even a busted window overlooking the shuttle bay.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
I remember that scene! It's from episode 89 where those two ensigns get all drunk and decide to graffiti the roof of the hangar. They're so drunk the only way they can figure to get up there is to break a window and crawl up on some GNDN conduits. The episode is entitled: "The Bad End of Ensgin Woozle". It ends w/young Mr. Woozle being transported back home to Slurmonia ine one of those Iron Lung Things on a medical transport, where he's to receive StarFleet Medical Disability pay for the remainder of his life.
I wonder whatever happened to Ensign Woozle? Did he eventually drink himself to death? I heard there was a script that brought him back for a guest role, but can't find it online....
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
He died in another episode and came back as a godlike deity that destroyed some obscure shipyard in his wrath.. then went to the planet of milk fed girls.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Well looking through Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise I don't see any information concerning the Landing-Bay Control Room with the exception of an arrow on the Profile drawing.
By the way, in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier there are tall windows in the shuttle bay on the side opposite the Landing-Bay doors. Is this alsow a Landing-Bay Control Room or is this an observation station that overlooks the shuttle bay?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Yeah, MSG is sadly vague in that area.
Your reference to ST:V is that this appears to be the main hangar bay control room. If you'll recall, Scotty is seen observing the fight between Sybok, Kirk and Spock - albiet we don't see him 'til after the fight is over and Sybok's cronies have also recovered.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
So does that mean that the starship has to man two control rooms during shuttle operations? The exterior control room, the one outside the hanger, and the interior hanger bay control room?
This arrangement seems very redundant to me unless the interior hanger bay control room was used to move the shuttles inside the hanger using overhead cranes or tractor beams after landing while the exterior control room was used to "guide" the shuttle toward the Enterprise, then into a landing approach course using tractor beams or navigational beacons, and then the controller would open the large shuttle bay doors at the appropriate time to let the craft into the bay.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Well, nothing is ever specifically stated on-screen, tho that is the theory for the ST:V version that I posit above....
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Do these pictures show the same control room, that's on new model? I had never considered it before.
Do your best at debunking all day long, if you wish. You've seen pics here of the Refit's Control Room, as indicated with the Andrew Probert cutaway drawing above which lends credence to what it's meant ot be. Ther are also the cutaway drawings by Matt Jeffries that exist of the TOS 'E' which show the hangar bay area with an obvious control room depicted.
And it's "hangar", not "hanger". You park aircraft in the former and place your clothes on the latter. Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
In the 24th century, advances in materials technology and space management lead to storing shuttles, hung from the ceiling of the shuttlebay... on hangers.
Heh, the advantage of a morning person making late night posts.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Something just occured to me. For ST: V, besides the new shuttle Bay set, they also had to have made a new model for the exterior close-ups. it just looks a little different. anybody heard if there was one built? like the 'wax' close-up model of the dorsal, for ST: II?
Posted by CaptainMike.jpg (Member # 709) on :
that occurred to me as well.. there's precious little behind the scenes type stuff from STV, i assume since it was farmed out to a smaller effects house than Trek productions usually received (ILM was busy at the time, purportedy with Indiana Jones)
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Perhaps the upcoming ST:V SE DVD will give us the answer to that. Looks to be lots of extra's in that one, so you never know....
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:•Rock Man In the Raw – Design elements and test footage of the aborted Rock Man costume.
Oh dear, that might be worth a chuckle.
quote:•Deleted Scenes – A variety of deleted scenes from "Star Trek V."
Now that I didn't expect, does anyone know just how much was cut? Anyone have access to a shooting script or novelisation?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Actually, I do own the novelization. But I am not willing to read it again. At least, not for free.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend:
quote:•Rock Man In the Raw – Design elements and test footage of the aborted Rock Man costume.
Oh dear, that might be worth a chuckle.
No doubt. I'd like to get a better idea of what exactly Shatner had in mind, at least.
quote:•Deleted Scenes – A variety of deleted scenes from "Star Trek V."
quote:Now that I didn't expect, does anyone know just how much was cut? Anyone have access to a shooting script or novelisation?
IIRC from when I read the novelization all those years ago, there won't be a whole lot of deleted stuff. Just some minor background stuff. The only thing that sticks in my mind for sure is a conversation between the three ambassador's in the bar that didn't make it into the movie. Prolly wouldn't be more than five to ten minutes that was deleted?
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
that conversation was gold.. it basically consisted of
"I'm here on the behalf of the Romulan government to open a dialogue"
and Korrd replying "The only thing I'd like to open is your skirt. I've heard Romulan women are... different"
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You've seen pics here of the Refit's Control Room, as indicated with the Andrew Probert cutaway drawing above which lends credence to what it's meant ot be. Ther are also the cutaway drawings by Matt Jeffries that exist of the TOS 'E' which show the hangar bay area with an obvious control room depicted. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)