I failed to write this down, so feel pretty bad. On top of that, I forgot which thread it was in, but I digress....
WTF was the reference to an Avenger/Miranda class ship named Intrepid? Was there a registry number included w/this information? Would appreciate someone straightenin' me out and givin' me the straight scoop on this, por favor.
Alcohol and a bad memory just don't mix....
Posted by Captain Serek (Member # 1038) on :
According to the script of Star Trek IV - The Voyage Home, there was a Miranda class Intrepid in dock that was supposed to be launched when the probe hit.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
nononononono actually according to the script there was a ship, class unknown, named the intrepid, in spacedock. spacedock contained the NX-2000, the NCC-1701-A, the Copernicus, and a Miranda-class vessel.
some imaginative fanboy said, 'does that mean the Intrepid was Miranda-class??' when in actuality the Miranda was probably labeled Saratoga and they probably just meant for the Intrepid to be some ship we didnt see
Posted by Captain Serek (Member # 1038) on :
I sit corrected. Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Thanks thus far, fellas. I recall the mention of an Avenger/Miranda in the ST:IV Spacedock scene, but was thinking there were two that someone mentioned (gotta take better notes!), one refit Constitution and the [i]Oberth?
Also, wasn't there mention of an Intrepid on the "Operation: Retrieve" charts? And does anyone know of a link to a screen cap or complete list of the ships on the chart?
Is there a page which goes in to detailed analysis of either of these I mention above? A sorta "One Stop Shop" website...? I did a search on Bernd's EAS and didn't find a page for it, which is surprising given his general obsession in regards to such things. Figured if anyone had broached the subject it would have been him!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: Also, wasn't there mention of an Intrepid on the "Operation: Retrieve" charts? And does anyone know of a link to a screen cap or complete list of the ships on the chart?
No mention so such a ship on that chart, and no...you speaketh of the Trek equivelant of the Holy Grail...
quote: Is there a page which goes in to detailed analysis of either of these I mention above? A sorta "One Stop Shop" website...? I did a search on Bernd's EAS and didn't find a page for it, which is surprising given his general obsession in regards to such things. Figured if anyone had broached the subject it would have been him!
Nope, there is a flare page or two that touches on it, but nothing super concrete is confirmed or agreed upon...
I will attempt to locate the link for you... Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I will attempt to locate the link for you...
Y'know, I forgot all about the SEARCH Function here at Flare....
Searching now and finding some stuff. My apologies, as I hadn't intended anyone to do any major research. Just hoped that someone had a link handy to more direct info.
Regardless, thanks for any info you can provide! Appreciate it.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
The most relevant Operation Retrieve information cropped up in an unlikely thread so I can understand difficulties in locating it.
here is one such link. I know there is another one out there with better pictures, I saved them and would post them, but would rather leave that to the individuals who made them.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6: nononononono actually according to the script there was a ship, class unknown, named the intrepid, in spacedock. spacedock contained the NX-2000, the NCC-1701-A, the Copernicus, and a Miranda-class vessel.
some imaginative fanboy said, 'does that mean the Intrepid was Miranda-class??' when in actuality the Miranda was probably labeled Saratoga and they probably just meant for the Intrepid to be some ship we didnt see
I'm not sure that is completely true. The Miranda that was seen was in Spacedock just about the time the probe made it tehre. You can see it in the shadows, along with the Excelsior, at the time. The only two ships or portions of ships visible on screen at the time. Making it seem very likely, more-so than a Connie becuase they were not even visible until the end of the movie. This scene was sometime prior to the scene in the ops room where we see the SOS from the Shepard.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Though just because we only saw the Excelsior and the Miranda class ship at that time doesn't mean those were the only two ships there at that time.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
yeah, logic dictates that just because you see a ship you can't decide for it to be the one they mentioned, i doubt the script people who wrote the intrepid line into the audio chatter had any effect on the FX peeps labeling or shooting any specific models..
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I'm not saying nor confirming that it is...but I can certainly see the point said 'fanboy' may have been trying to make (And I am not trying to make this another Discovery debate). To me, it seems rather convenient that they would have mentioned the Excelsior and Intrepid at roughly 0:17.50mins while showing the Excelsior..then roughly 15secs later they show the Miranda as the power gets cut.
0:18.02mins
0:18.04mins
Two plus two suggests a good chance that that could be the Intrepid, contrary to the debate that includes Connies that were not seen until the last scene of the movie over an hour past the 'to be' line, and even longer than that in 'Trek time'.
[ July 25, 2003, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Futurama Guy ]
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Wow! I've never seen that particular screen-cap before. Thanks for posting that, FG. Much appreciated!
Don't guess you could show us screen-caps of the fly-by in Spacedock towards the end of the movie, could you? Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
this brings us to common sense territory: would Starfleet make a dinky lil Miranda an Intrepid? seems like a definite demotion in stature, considering the name would be used later as an Excelsior and then for a prototype..
if we let wishful thinking get the best of us and assume that that ship must be the Intrepid due to elimination, then we have to ask.. does that even make sense?
this is pretty much bullshit.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Personally, I don't have an opinion right now on the subject of whether the MIRANDA class (I still prefer the term AVENGER class, thank you very much!) seen in the two images above is actually Intrepid or not.
However, I don't see it as a "demotion" to give a MIRANDA class that name. And if you go with as objective as possible an analysis of that scene and any dialogue and the process of elimination does indeed indicate that the ship scene there is Intrepid, then what can you say? Wouldn't be "bullshit" so much as throwing objectivity out the door, IMO. And I'm not meanin' to bag on your, Cap'n, just giving my take on your commentary there.
Now, here's one to throw out there to get cut to ribbons and sautee'd by you lot: what if that Excelsior from the above scene is meant to be Intrepid, using the careful process of elimination given above, but using the actual shooting script? That could mean that the registry we're later given in TNG era by Okuda is incorrect or that there were two EXCELSIOR class ships named Intrepid at some point in time, right...? Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
even though it is just as unlikely as any, that Excelsior theory is preferable to the Miranda theory in many ways.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Except that there was only ONE Excelsior-class vessel at this point---the prototype NX-2000 herself. But let's not start THAT debate again...
The Intrepid's class is unknown, though it is likely either the Miranda or one of the two Connies seen in SpaceDock during the course of the film.
Spikey's speculation that it is the Miranda, based upon the order of shots in the film compared to the scripted sequences, is actually quite sensical. However it is impossible to substantiate, especially considering that the Miranda model was not relabeled as anything but the Saratoga for the film. And personally, (though this is completely irrelevent to the debate as it is just my "feeling") I would balk at the idea of a Miranda-class Intrepid and would rather believe that she was a Connie built as a replacement for the one destroyed in "The Immunity Syndrome" (TOS).
-MMoM Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Except that there was only ONE Excelsior-class vessel at this point---the prototype NX-2000 herself. But let's not start THAT debate again...
Not confirmed on-screen either way, is it? Possiblity exists, tho.
quote:The Intrepid's class is unknown, though it is likely either the Miranda or one of the two Connies seen in SpaceDock during the course of the film.
I'm open to anything at this point. Especially not having access to the DE (or was it an SE?) DVD nor the shooting script.
quote:Spikey's speculation that it is the Miranda, based upon the order of shots in the film compared to the scripted sequences, is actually quite sensical. However it is impossible to substantiate, especially considering that the Miranda model was not relabeled as anything but the Saratoga for the film.
Curious to know your source for this. While I find it the most likely event, I'd like to know if this was confirmed or speculation on your part.
quote: And personally, (though this is completely irrelevent to the debate as it is just my "feeling") I would balk at the idea of a Miranda-class Intrepid and would rather believe that she was a Connie built as a replacement for the one destroyed in "The Immunity Syndrome" (TOS).
Again, I have no problem w/that thinking.
Something which just occured to me, tho: do we have a registry number to go w/this mention of Intrepid in the Spacedock pics from the previous page? Or perhaps from the Operation: Retrieve chart? I've searched two of the threads here on Flare and don't find one that matches up for a refit, just the TOS registry we've been given in the past....
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well I didnt point it at first, but the Excelsior is also in the above caps as well...so really you have the Excelsior on the left and Intrepid on the right; and for the dudes in the control booth the Excelsior on their front-right and the Intrepid on their left.
As far as demoting the Intrepid...I dont that is even an option. Just because the Enterprise seemed to step up each model doesnt mean that that is the norm. The Enterprise has always been an exception and shouldn't be compared.
When there was (supposed) mention of two ships and then you see two ships immediately (the next scene) thereafter...it seems to be more than mere coincidence. There were no Connies in the movie until after the trial which would have been many hours or even days after the probes incursion.
And Mighty Monkey, not to pick on you specifically, but your shiplist does have the Excelsior-Farragut on it and that evidence is just as circumstantial, if not more, than this evidence. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: Don't guess you could show us screen-caps of the fly-by in Spacedock towards the end of the movie, could you?
As in these?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Thanks, Futurama Guy! You DaBomb! Appreciate the Hell outta ya for those screen grabs. I recall the two which show what has got to be a Refit Connie's nacelle and had deduced that they were two separate ships. However, I've never seen them from the WideScreen DVD's perspective. Pretty kewel.
Now, if we could just find the registry for that ship (Intrepid or not!)....
BTW, I had posted a request for information at the TrekBBS' TrekTech Forum. Rick Sternbach frequents there and I thought perhaps he might have some inside info on the Operation: Retrieve chart. Alas, he does not, having not worked on ST:VI.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
No prob Griff!
Its a wonder how they got the Enterprise out of spacedock from the back of the dock without getting its hair tangled in the mishmash of nacelles and saucers... Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a Miranda-class U.S.S. Intrepid. I don't agree that its a demotion going from a Constitution-class to a Miranda-class. Although I haven't calculated the total square footage, it appears that the Miranda-class has the same internal volume as the refit Constitution-class and it probably has more hangar space, although this cannot be confirmed.
The Reliant also gave the Enterprise a good thrashing, so the two vessels are similar in combat capabilities. Would an experienced starship captain have defeated Kirk in the opening exchange? And who can say that the vessel is under-armed with the two forward-facing pulse phaser cannons and an extra two photo torpedo tubes.
Certainly there were enough intervening years to have a Miranda-class Intrepid and then have an Excelsior-class Intrepid NCC-38907 as her replacement and then have the lead ship of the Intrepid-class. Which isn't a demotion either because the Intrepid is one tough little ship. It probably would have given the refit Lakota a run for its money.
So if the Yorktown was repainted Enterprise NCC-1701-A, does that mean that the solar sail failed and the east Indian captain, portrayed by tennis pro Vijay Amitraj, perished along with his crew? Starfleet just needed enough time to tow back the starship to space dock, clean out the dead bodies and throw in some air freshener, and repaint the interior and exterior of the ship? Virtually instant replacement Enterprise NCC-1701-A.
Or do people think that the Ti Ho was floating around space dock for a while, and then repainted as NCC-1701-A?
There seemed to be plenty of interior space in Space Dock, so there could be many more vessels inside it that we didn't see during Star Trek IV.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Well, as Masao went and created a whole new thread for, Rick Sternbach came thru on the Operation: Retrieve charts:
quote:Posted by Rick Sternbach: Well, I found some data. Actually, found the chart. I haven't read this whole thread to see if anyone else found it, but here are the ships:
USS Eagle, 1701-refit type silhouette, NCC-956 <-Edited USS Potemkin, refit silhouette, NCC-1657 USS Excelsior, Excelsior-type silhouette, NCC-2000 USS Endeavour, refit silhouette, NCC-1895 USS Emden, refit silhouette, NCC-1856 USS Ahwahnee, refit silhouette, NCC-2048
The graphic I have says "Initial Operations." I've forgotten if there was more to the show'n'tell.
Rick
Thread can be found here: Operation: Retrieve Charts? Mr. Sternbach? Obviously, not the complete chart, but looks to be from at least one of the pages. Something's better than nothing, neh?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: There were no Connies in the movie until after the trial which would have been many hours or even days after the probes incursion.
Between the scene of Spock and Sarek and the crew on the shuttle - there could have been minutes, hours, days, weeks or MONTHS!! They could have had shore leave after their on-going ordeal since leaving Earth on a cadet training cruise in TWOK!
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I don't think so considering Kirk was still wearing his flag uni. Also, if there'd been days, weeks, or months afterwards, don't you think at leastr ONE of them would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE about a brand new Enterprise? They were totally in the dark about a ship.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
In which case the span of time could have been between their rescue from the bay and the court trial. Which when you think about it makes more sence,considering that the authorities have a whole planet to put back together after all that disruption. The hearing could have easily took place a few days or weeks later. Remember that there has to be time for their debriefing, Gillian Taylor needs time to sign onto her science vessel (possible the Copernicus) and remember that at the begining of the movie Sarek had (apparantly) just arrived on Earth and at the end of the movie he was heading back to Vulcan, that quite a way to go if it's only for a few hours and I'm sure an Ambassador can find something to do with himself for a week or so.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Taylor needs time to sign onto her science vessel (possible the Copernicus)
Wait a minute. Her science vessel was a seagoing vessel not a spaceship, wasn't it?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Never clearly identified on-screen and it's not in-script that I've ever heard tell of. Still, you never know.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Yeah, but what would she do in space? I don't think she'd leave the whales alone.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
She said she had 300 hundred years of catch up learning to do, plus it doesn't seam likely that Kirk would have trouble finding her on Earth. I think a SPACE science vessel is clearly implied.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I can see a whaleologist on an Oberth. There ARE pelagic planets out there, after all.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yeah, but she knows as much about alien whalelike creatures as I do.
I never even considered that she was talking about anything other than a spaceship, but it never made sense to me.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
That would be where the learning part comes in.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
For pete's sake, why? "Nobody in your century knows anything about whales."
"Well, let's get you at least a thousand lightyears from these here whales, learning about an alien form of life that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike whales." The whole point of having her around is to work with the whales they brought back.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I spotted that too. These two bits of dialogue do seam to contradict each other.
Maybe she is required to do a tour in space before she's allowed to be in Science Academy or whatever it's called (note she had the same badge as Carol & David Marcus.)
She would certianly need to be re-educated, if only to allow her to use 23rd Century technology.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Here's the two bits of dialogue. The first one is just after they decloaked infront of the whaling ship and beamed up George and Gracie.
KIRK He means our chances of getting home are not very good. You might have lived a longer life if you'd stayed where you belong.
GILLIAN I belong here. at his look) Suppose by some miracle you do get them through. (beat) Who in the 23rd Century knows anything about Humpback whales?
KIRK (a long moment) ... You have a point...
And the second one is just after the hearing.
GILLIAN My own exonerated Kirk! I'm so.. juiced, I can't tell you! (she kisses him) Bye, Kirk... Thanks.
She starts away.
KIRK Hey! -- Where you going?!
GILLIAN You're going to your ship, I'm going to mine. Science Vessel. I've got 300 years of catch-up learning to do.
KIRK You mean this is -- goodbye?
GILLIAN (perplexed) Why does it have to be goodbye?
KIRK Well, I... As they say in your century -- I don't even have your phone number. How will I find you?
GILLIAN Don't worry. I'll find you. (then) See you around the galaxy...
I think it's that last line that really throws it for me. How can she see him round the Galaxy if she's staying on Earth? However I do see your point, it can be taken either way.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Kirk isn't, though. Anyway, I don't know. But...
quote: My own exonerated Kirk! I'm so.. juiced, I can't tell you!
Is that actually in the movie? "My own exonerated Kirk!"? Huh? Juiced? Crazy.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
If that line was in the script, it was changed. And with good reason.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
272 INT. SPACEDOCK - ILM
From the Dock in the distance, amid the great SHIPS, a tiny SHUTTLECRAFT comes toward us slowly.
273 INT. SHUTTLECRAFT - KIRK AND CREW - ILM BLUE SCREEN
A great window in the front of the craft gives everyone a view of the ships and where they are headed. They do not seem to know.
274 POV - THROUGH THE WINDDOW (AND INTERCUT WITH SHUTTLE)
Various vessels, odd shaped, undistinguished. A Reliant class, a Saratoga. As they watch:
This proves that the shooting script at least intended a Miranda Class ship named Saratoga was present...
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
With that line, you could just as easily argue that there was a Saratoga class ship in Spacedock.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Yup. Perhaps in this script, it is intended for USS Saratoga to be a new design and not a "Reliant class vessel"? The writers (or "technical patchup" writers doing some fine-tuning) might have counted on TPTB spending big bucks on a new model for the relatively central Saratoga, and throwing in both that new model and the older model from STII for the final scene.
As for Taylor's "science vessel", perhaps it was to be used for monitoring the whales in an offworld preserve where the whales would be transferred after the nosy probe had departed for sure? Perhaps whatever killed the whales (not whaling, but something like pollution or lack of plankton) was still a problem in the Earth oceans, and George and Gracie would perish if forced to stay on Earth...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Well if Earth in the 23rd century was the paradise that Gene Roddenberry intended, I think that the whales would have done very well on their own in the Pacific and wouldn't need Dr. Taylor anymore to nursemaid them. The Federation probably could replicate krill by the ton if the live variety was unavailable in the ocean. Also there might have been several more years of scientific knowledge accumulated about the Humpback whale before they, and the others, died out that Dr. Taylor did not know. Perhaps Dr. Taylor was only unique in the fact that she was the only living person to have personal experience with living whales. But she may not have possessd unique knowledge.
Besides if the whales needed anything they could always tell a Vulcan, or another telepath, through a mind meld.
Given the choice of being the whale minder again or serving on a science ship, who could blame Gillian for choosing the science ship?
Regarding the Miranda-class starship shown in the space dock at the end of ST IV, it seems reasonable that Saratoga would go there for repairs or testing before returning to active service.
Certainly if Gene Roddenberry's assertion is true that the 1701-A was the repainted Yorktown. Don't know if she went back to space dock under her own power, or if she was towed back.
We just need to figure out what happened to Capt. Vijay and his crew because I don't think that the ship was destroyed after encountering the whale probe, just disabled. If all hands did die on the Yorktown, it would explain how a new starship was available so quickly and why Starfleet renamed it.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Hmmm... Makes me wonder if the crew of Saratoga survived. It might have been several days since the Probe passed them and if they were too far from a star system for a "make-shift solar sail" to work for them, they might well have all died. That might well explain why it was the same Saratoga we saw in the beginning of the movie, I guess.
...and then the ghosts of the dead crew remained on board and haunted the ship for several years. The crews of the ship always felt as if they were being watched, things would disappear, doors would lock tight or open up at bizarre times and people just wouldn't feel all that at ease on board her. After more than a decade, StarFleet decided to scrap Saratoga and build a new one, w/a new registry number - thus we have Sisko's Saratoga in DS9's Premiere episode "Emissary". Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I know it's Voyager, but with respect to the Yorktown, have y'all forgotten that during "Flashback," Tuvok receives a letter from his parents aboard the Yorktown? Which means either the Enterprise-A isn't the repainted Yorktown or it is and Vijay and crew got a new Excelsior-class Yorktown.
--Jonah
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
"Yeah, who's laughing now, Captain 'I'm so important I can get your ship renamed to my ship' Kirk?"
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
"Capt. Vijay"? I thought it was like "Capt. Joel Randolph" or something like that...for the Yorktown, to what end am I in error?
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
I have never known the name of the captain character. It may very well be what you say. The captain of the "Yorktown" was portrayed by tennis pro Vijay Amitraj who also appeared in the 1983 James Bond film "Octopussy." That is what the "my backhand has definitely improved" joke was about in the movie and the tennis racket/tennis match joke during the minicab chase. I believe that he was a world-class tennis player and played at Wimbledon, but I don't know what awards he received at these tournaments. That's why I call him Captain Vijay to identify him as east Indian, his character in "Octopussy" was named Vijay. He came to a very bad end by the yo-yo saw blades in the Bond film. So I was hoping that other readers would recognize who I was talking about. In ST IV he had a line talking about the "Yorktown" losing all power and that the chief engineer was working on a solar sail to "sustain us." Its a pretty short scene and easy to miss if you blink.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Both the Yorktown and the Saratoga appear lost relatively early in the crisis, so it is a bit doubtful if towing them all the way to Earth's Spacedock would be practical for repairs. If the Saratoga patrolled the outer borders, surely there would be other Starfleet facilities closer by?
We don't even know if Spacedock has facilities for repairing anything, really. It could just be one big passenger terminal and duty-free shopping area for all we know.
In any case, it is a bit silly that Spacedock's interior would be littered with randomly oriented free-floating starships that require shuttlecraft or transporters to access. Granted the dock design is silly and confining - but shouldn't it still be possible to fly all the ships we saw closer to the pier structures, anchor them there and latch on some direct-access corridors?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
If they can build starships at Spacedock, they should be able to repair ships as well.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Dunno about that one. We have not yet actually seen any ships being built at Spacedock...just, at most, garaged there.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: I know it's Voyager, but with respect to the Yorktown, have y'all forgotten that during "Flashback," Tuvok receives a letter from his parents aboard the Yorktown? Which means either the Enterprise-A isn't the repainted Yorktown or it is and Vijay and crew got a new Excelsior-class Yorktown.
I seem to have missed the mention of that in "Flashback". Or at least it didn't register at the time. I'm kinda doubting it was an Excelsior-class Yorktown, but that's because I just don't belive that the E-A was a renamed ship.
That, at least, was one of the better episodes of VOY, too. And hey, at least VOY was good for something! Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
BUH?!? "Flashback" stank to high heaven. The acting was bad, the writing was dreadful, and there were a couple of things I'd blame on Tuvok's faulty memory, but what does that say about Vulcans...? Getting Rand's rank wrong is a small and forgivable thing. But commissioned officers bunking up in "crew quarters"? Ensign Tuvok being paired with the ship's Science Officer? And most egregious, Tuvok's memory of Valtane dying, when we see him quite a live and well on the Excelsior's bridge at the end of "The Undiscovered Country" -- the battle at Khitomer taking place well after the battle at the nebula we saw... Oy.
--Jonah
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: I have never known the name of the captain character. That's why I call him Captain Vijay to identify him as east Indian, his character in "Octopussy" was named Vijay.
The script identified the character that was played by Vijay Armitraj as Captain Joel Randolph of the USS Yorktown.. the other cameo there was Go-Go Jane Wiedlin playing LCDR Trillya, comm officer of the USS Shepard, which was dead in space, and the power failure release a plague from the medical stasis field. She was relaying messages from Captain Clampett.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: BUH?!? "Flashback" stank to high heaven. The acting was bad, the writing was dreadful, and there were a couple of things I'd blame on Tuvok's faulty memory, but what does that say about Vulcans...? Getting Rand's rank wrong is a small and forgivable thing. But commissioned officers bunking up in "crew quarters"? Ensign Tuvok being paired with the ship's Science Officer? And most egregious, Tuvok's memory of Valtane dying, when we see him quite a live and well on the Excelsior's bridge at the end of "The Undiscovered Country" -- the battle at Khitomer taking place well after the battle at the nebula we saw... Oy.
Er... Let's just say that Tuvok's memory isn't the only faulting one around...
Don't forget that the "V" man (forget his name, Russian sounding, tho) is alive at the ST:VI, while he's supposed to have died prior to the events of ST:VI....
Still, I remember liking it other than that. It was the only real goof I noticed when I watched it... once....
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6: [QUOTE]The script identified the character that was played by Vijay Armitraj as Captain Joel Randolph of the USS Yorktown.. the other cameo there was Go-Go Jane Wiedlin playing LCDR Trillya, comm officer of the USS Shepard, which was dead in space, and the power failure release a plague from the medical stasis field. She was relaying messages from Captain Clampett.
Huh...?
Yer havin' us on, ain'cha...? Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6:
quote:...the other cameo there was Go-Go Jane Wiedlin playing LCDR Trillya, comm officer of the USS Shepard, which was dead in space, and the power failure release a plague from the medical stasis field. She was relaying messages from Captain Clampett.
Jane Wiedlin appears on the wall screen in the Starfleet Command center scene when they are switching to planetary power reserves. She has a pretty wild hairdo and just seems to be a head with a moving mouth in the background and nothing she says is intelligible over the sound effects and conversations inside the control room. The information about what she is saying and who she is must come entirely from the shooting script, because I sure cannot make out what the heck she is saying.
I think that Gene Roddenberry was dead wrong when he asserted that the NCC-1701-A was a new ship renamed from "Yorktown" and this became part of the history of the "USS Enterprise" in the TNG Technical Manual. I was just being facetious when I brought up the bit about cleaning out the dead bodies and giving the ship a new name and a new coat of paint.
Shane Johnson in his book "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" states that the NCC-1701-A is a newly completed ship originally named "USS Ti Ho". This makes much more sense to me than the idea of renaming a ship already in active service for Kirk and company. Especially because of the debugging that Mr. Scott and the crew must perform at the beginning of ST V.
Speaking of Spacedock, I always thought of it more than just a starship garage. Despite what they say about it in "Starship Spotter", I believe that its armed with phaser banks and torpedo launchers and its a facility where they can construct and refit starships as well as store them. Plus I think that it was a way to construct "Excelsior" in secret. Certainly the Klingon and the Romulans, and other threat powers, monitored Earch orbit for new intelligence about starship design and Starfleet strength. Oh look, they are building a new larger starship design with new nacelles. New propulsion system?
My belief that Spacedock is also a starship construction and repair facility comes from the FASA RPG supplement: "Starship Construction Manual". On the back cover a "Chandley" class frigate, a starship class created by FASA, is shown under construction.
Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
Anyone have a pic of the yorktown bridge vs the E'a's Bridge? Maybe that will settle all this debate
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Not necessarily since bridge modules can be swapped out.
In regards to the Yorktown & Shepard transmissions, time for another script extract.
STAR TREK IV : THE VOYAGE HOME APPENDIX A.
N.D. STARSHIP DIALOGUE
(as it appears in Scene 42)
VERSION 1 Starfleet command, this is Captain Joel Randolph of the starship Yorktown reporting. Emergency channel Zero-one-three-zero, code red. It has been three hours since our contact with the alien probe and all attempts at regaining power have failed. All non-essential crew have been given hiber-sedatives to slow down consumption of life support reserves. Our chief engineer is attempting to deploy a makeshift solar sail with which to focus and absorb radiation from a nearby sun we are orbiting. We have high hopes that this will, if successful, generate power to keep us alive indefinitely. If you would patch us through to Engineering Control we could link up with the technicians there and hopefully lick this problem. We will keep you posted on our condition. Starfleet, and inform you of any further developments. Captain Randolph out.
VERSION 2 Starfleet Command, this is communications officer Trillya of the U.S.S. Shepard reporting on emergency status code zero one nine five. Our condition remains the same, the probe has neutralized all power supplies and we are functioning on reserves only. All attempts to reinstate main power have failed. Captain Clampett has quarantined all but minimal support crew due to failure of Bio- Sterilization capsules containing Vegan D virus, which has already killed fifteen crew members. All aboard are believed to be infected. Atmospheric regeneration and reclamation systems are not functional, and all medical supplies are spoiling due to refrigeration shut down. At present condition life support systems will be exhausted within eight hours. Starfleet, please advise...?
For the record I checked out the DVD and while it's certainly not as audible as the Yorktown message, the Shepard message can be heard in the background and what little I could make out seams to be consistent with what is in the script.
As for the Yorktown itself, my interpretation of events goes something like this:-
The Yorktown in ST:IV was an old refitted Connie like the E-nil and was due for decommissioning, so when Starfleet decided to give Kirk another ship they chose to give him the old Yorktown a final refit (the early stages of which we saw in ST:V) rename it as the E-A and give it a five or six year stay of execution. This didn't bother Captain Randolph or his crew much since they were due to be transferred to the new Excelsior-Class Yorktown anyway.
For me this neatly explains why how Starfleet came up with a new ship so quickly, why it was decommissioned and mothballed only a few years later and how there could be another Yorktown flying around in 2293.
Of course the E-A doesn't have to have been the Yorktown, it could just as easily been another old Connie. However since the Great Bird thought it was a good idea, I don't see any reason for it not to be.
Of course everyone is free to come up with their own versions since I doubt that there is any solid "evidence" one way or the other. I would however like to point out in regards to the MSGTTE manual's entry regarding the E-A; that book was written before ST:VI in which the E-A was decommissioned and was apparently under the assumption that the E-A was brand new (probably due to the Transwarp label) so it really can't be counted as a reliable source in this regard.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I saw Vijay Amritraj playing at Wimbledon this year, in a seniors doubles match with his brother.
Oh goody, I see that topic drifted into the "Enterprise-A origins?" area, which gives me good excuse to present my theory
OK, so, let's start with one important question: is this decomissioning stuff final? I've read "Ships Named Enterprise" and I've seen some instances of ships being decomissioned and then recomissioned couple of years later.
So, I think that basically explains both Uhura and Kirk statements. Enterprise was simply decomissioned and then recomissioned under different name. (If SF Command can change Yorktown's name to Enterprise, then there's no reason to assume that they can't do it again )
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6: The script identified the character that was played by Vijay Armitraj as Captain Joel Randolph of the USS Yorktown.. the other cameo there was Go-Go Jane Wiedlin playing LCDR Trillya, comm officer of the USS Shepard, which was dead in space, and the power failure released a plague from the medical stasis field. She was relaying messages from Captain Clampett.
Huh...?
Yer havin' us on, ain'cha...?
actually not.. one of the old Starlogs i dug up has a picture of Jane filming, sitting at an Uhura station on a darkened bridge set, with an out-of-costume Nimoy directing her. She was wearing a random wierd alien look.. (pale tinted skin, forehead ornament and funny hair. She played Joan of Arc in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure also.
This awful page has a cap of her on screen as Trillya, although the benid the scenes photo that i need to find the motivation to scan is much clearer
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Dunno about that one. We have not yet actually seen any ships being built at Spacedock...just, at most, garaged there.
The Excelsior was built there.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
No, Excelsior was built at the San Francisco Fleet Yards. That doesn't mean or say anything about Spacedock.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
My thoughts exactly.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6: [QUOTE]actually not.. one of the old Starlogs i dug up has a picture of Jane filming, sitting at an Uhura station on a darkened bridge set, with an out-of-costume Nimoy directing her. She was wearing a random wierd alien look.. (pale tinted skin, forehead ornament and funny hair. She played Joan of Arc in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure also.
This awful page has a cap of her on screen as Trillya, although the benid the scenes photo that i need to find the motivation to scan is much clearer
Y'know, as many times as I've seen that movie, I never caught that! Thanks for the info, Cap'n Mike. I shall now watch the scene more carefully.
And thanks to Reverend for quoting the script for us. I've got that stuff saved to my Hd on my 'puter at home and will be a joyously happy geek next time I see that scene and can read along w/the background as Jane Weidlin tells us about the moments of the crew onboard Shephard, as they crew die of some horrible plague....
Wow! Can't wait! Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Is there a reason why Space Dock couldn't have been a part of the San Francisco Fleet Yards complex or vice versa? Space Dock could have been placed in geosynchronus above the city of San Francisco and served as a huge starship hanger and mega star base in the San Francisco Fleet Yards complex.
I am reminded of all the navy bases and Newport News Shipbuilding in Chesapeake Bay. From the air, it looked like one big navy mega base for the Atlantic fleet to me. It was pretty impressive.
I would have thought in ST III and IV that we would have seen more stations, orbital dry docks, and starship traffic around Earth and Space Dock. Was there a let's clean up Earth orbit campaign after ST: TMP? What happened to the orbital office complex? And when we see McKinley Station in TNG where is Space Dock? I don't think that they would have dismantled it and replaced it with something else. I guess McKinley Station could be on the other side of the Earth from Space Dock.
Utopia Planetia as shown in that "Voyager" episode certainly looks huge and consists of multiple dry docks and a huge space station like complex. Looks like the orbit around Mars is just filled with hardware that supports the shipyards, I would have thought the same would have happened to Earth orbit.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike20X6: This awful page has a cap of her on screen as Trillya, although the benid the scenes photo that i need to find the motivation to scan is much clearer
Well here are the two angles of the Yorktowns' Captain Randolph.
...and here is the best I can do for the Shepards' Commander Trillya. It is zoomed in and cropped at 4x original.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Triton, look at some pics from the Space Shuttle or the ISS. Space is big and dark, especially at synchronous altitudes. You'd have to be very big and very bright to be spotted from any appreciable distance, and then only if the spotter is looking in the right direction.
Some of the people on here who are much better at trigonometry than I will have to tell you what part of the Earth Spacedock is over, but it's a ways out. The San Francisco Yards are a lot less massive, and thus a lot lower. McKinley Station (whenever it was built) is at a much higher latitude (Alaska) and wouldn't be visible anyway from most of the angles used.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I did a search on Bernd's EAS and didn't find a page for it, which is surprising given his general obsession in regards to such things. Figured if anyone had broached the subject it would have been him!
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
