Placeholder. From the advance reviews on Trekweb, looks like there will be a few things to look for. More MACO tech lies ahead, some sort of cloaked mini Death Star, possible zero-G combat, we finally see the brig, and....
And...
Apparently, Enterprise suffers its first crew death in this episode. And as I'd been hoping, this affects everyone in a major way. I mention this in a tech thread because it may affect how the ship works... At least I hope it will.
Mark
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
some sort of cloaked mini Death Star, possible zero-G combat, we finally see the brig
Hmmm, thats pretty much what I was thinking when I watched it, i.e. Death Star, but I must admit the cloaking field effect what rather neat. Kinda sucks that we never found out what the whole setup was actually for. (assuming that its supposed to do something aside from storing crap)
No zero-G combat, nifty music though.... The tactic of snacking and grabbing supplies (and retrieving felled crewmembers) with transporter transponders is rather interestingly implemented, although not necessarily setting a precedent.
Brig. *shrug* Although appropriate. Apparently, Enterprise suffers its first crew death in this episode. And as I'd been hoping, this affects everyone in a major way.
Eh what, it does? Well, Archer did look kinda grumpy, *shrug*
As an aside, we at least know that the technology of the Xindi isn't all that uniformly advanced if a ship inferior to Enterprise can still raid their ships easily.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Holy matrimony, Batman! It's a baby Dyson Sphere! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Damn good episode.
The Xindi vessel that was taken out by the pirates may have been a simple freighter or trading ship: Easy prey.
It's not like taking out a Oberth would be indicative of the strength of the Soverign after all.
It's always good to see aincent artifacts of advanced civilizations lingering around the expanse: It furthers my pet theory that the Xindi are Preserver creations and not naturally evolved.
Best of all: PORTHOS CAME BACK! I thought they'd left the dog on earth but he's the bet anomaly detector hey could have.
One thing....the commercials didint match the episode in any way. The commecial was all about an alien getting loose on the ship and causing havoc but that never happened (thankfuly!)
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
That's no moon... it's a space station!
Possible nitpick: the Yossarians (Catch-22, anyone?) beamed out all of the NX-01's antimatter pods... meaning they transported antimatter, which isn't supposed to be possible except in minute quantities. Maybe they've got alien technology to get around that, or else it's one of the Laws Of Physics that are broken inside The Expanse.
Archer was concerned about hitting one of their own torpedoes during the shootout in the armory. Why were they keeping antimatter warheads loaded in their torpedoes during a non-alert situation? As I recall it, there wasn't much time between the start of problems with the titular anomaly, the time the Yossarian ship attacked, and when the weapons went down. (Or did the weapons go down even before the Yossarians attacked?)
In the dorsal-view schematic while the Yossarians were running around the ship, they showed Cargo Bay 2 (fortunately without the Borg alcove), directly on the centerline and aft of Engineering. Looking at some of the images at EAS, I wonder how they can fit that big cargo bay in there, along with the shuttlebay (excuse me; launch bay) and still take into account the lowered hull clearance in that aft part of the ship. Seems kinda strange, IMO.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Possible nitpick: the Yossarians (Catch-22, anyone?) beamed out all of the NX-01's antimatter pods... meaning they transported antimatter, which isn't supposed to be possible except in minute quantities. Maybe they've got alien technology to get around that, or else it's one of the Laws Of Physics that are broken inside The Expanse.
That's pretty minor. The Yossarians also have kickin' transporter tech that's at least as fast as those on TNG. I'm sure they overcame the minor difficulty of transporting anti-M (and removng he blast of that grenade from the transporter beam as well). Archer and crew might have had to transport the antimatter back on the shuttlepod though...
I'd have scared the secret of how the Yossarians shielded their ship from the anomalies before letting them go! That "masking their ion trail" trick was pretty cool too (but they could have copped that from the database, I guess).
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:I'd have scared the secret of how the Yossarians shielded their ship from the anomalies before letting them go!
Seems to me that the Yossarian prisoner actually gave the secret away for free at the beginning. He said something about trillium-D that lines the hull and keeps the anomalies out. Sounds like a line of bull, to me... but with the weird science of Trek, it's not too out of line for the show. And they *did* mention trillium at the mining facility last week, too...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think there's a Y in their name.
I was mildly disappointed to learn that the MACO rifles have a stun setting.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
As expected, a fun episode, for all the above reasons and more! Tons of tech, which we're gonna dig into straight away.
-Porthos, the anomaly detector! What, can he SMELL them coming? Are dogs in Trek latent telepaths? This is the first time we really have a pet like this (acknowledging Spot mostly as comic relief), but has anyone stopped to consider why dogs can do this?
-Well done VFX on the anomalies, though it'd've been cool to see them change types in the middle of a set rather than between them. That cup of coffee was pretty cool, and subtly done.
-The set where they gear up is the same one next to the decon chamber, but may have been enlarged to accomodate the new suits for the MACOs, not to mention all the crew they had in there gearing up. I guess they don't have their own EVA staging area, which makes a certain amount of sense, since it's probably near the launch bay.
-The magnetic boots are still making the TNG SFX. Ah well, at least they're consistent.
-Is it just me, or do the sets seem even MORE blue this year?
-The "Cochrane equation" is one of the things that don't work here. Quantumspatialwhatsits don't stay constant, and so neither does engine efficiency.
-Cargo bay ONE is directly behind engineering, and could concievably be between the two aft access doors - or include them.
-The pirates had nifty yellow pulse weapons. I was doing an FC rifle double take for a second there. However their ship fires white pulses, contradicing the common Trek edict that alien weapons are all the same colour.
-MACOs carry stun grenades. And yeah, their rifles also have a stun setting. And yeah, she's nicely hot.
-Crewman Fuller, our resident expert on the torpedo system, is the lucky first casualty, killed by the pirate "Osaarians" (sp from CC). The aliens are from outside the Expanse, typically merchants with no history of piracy. Their funky armor was pretty clearly influenced by Japanese samurai armor. Cool.
-Stolen stuff: three photon(ic) torpedoes, a case of plasma rifles, a couple dozen stun grenades, half their food, everything in cargo bay two (though they were in CB1!), and all the antimatter. All they've got left is the stuff in the reactor, which would last them a month, tops. One wonders how much antimatter subsequent starships would have after they drained their tanks. How much trouble would Voyager have been in, really?
-Hey, they're still PLASMA rifles, unless they were talking about the MACO weapons. Mind you, even they have a stun setting... And one Osaarian was carrying a phase pistol, so there.
-I like the brig. Instead of a forcefield, we have reinforced glass (though it looks like it's been reinforced with plastic six-pack can holders). The cot in the brig may have been reused from the evil repair station in "Dead Stop".
-I think this is the first time the crew wore holstered weapons on duty, a la DS9.
-Using some acquired ion tracking techniques from dead guys, the gang finds a cloaking field in which lies a sphere 19 kilometers in diameter. It's made of a single alloy - polyduranium, the same stuff that makes up the Osaarian's ships. It's over a thousand years old, has seven 12-kilomter big fusion reactors (only three of which were working), and T'pol suggests that they might have something to do with the anomalies.
-Note that when entering into it the shuttlepod's wings are retracted...
-The pirates' loot includes a LOT of stembolts! It's unknown if they're self-sealing or not. Regardless, Enterprise gets most of their stuff back.
-The climatic battle was something we rarely see - Starfleet on the offensive, with specific objectives and maneuvers thereto. And better yet, they attacked so they could hack into the alien ship's computer and download their Xindi database. Great space battle choreography! And for the first time in a while, the forward phase cannons are seen where they're supposed to be. Good stuff.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
This will be the financial ruin of me. I just plain can't wait for the eps to air in German satellite channels any more. At least I have to go and find a line-by-line, blow-by-blow description of the episode...
Could Porthos simply have sensed increasing tension among the crew due to their observing weird readings, even before they consciously realized they were seeing weird readings?
Do we *see* a MACO rifle stun somebody, or do we just hear of the setting? Perhaps plasma guns are used instead of old slug-throwers exactly because they can be made nonlethal? A diffuse plasma bolt might just knock you out and burn you a bit, as compared to punching a hole in you - a stun setting of a somewhat messy kind.
If the Osaarians are causing these anomalies, does this mean there's a chance the Expanse will be gone by the end of the arc?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
It was stated in the ep that the Ossarians are from outside The Expanse and travelled in to find trade routes and such. The clouds on the edge of the Expanse let ships in, but no out, apparently. And the sphere is 1000 years old, and the Ossarians have only been in there for a few years. I don't think the Ossarians are causing the anomalies, as the one they captured was disfigured from them. If the sphere is destroyed, all the anomalies might disappear but the clouds and what not might still be there.
My pet theory is that the Xindi are responsible for the Expanse somehow, as protection against attack. If the debris field Enterprise found last ep was the first Xindi homeworld and they've gone and made a new one, it would make sense for them to create the Expanse to hide them and also why they'd be so pissed with Earth.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
My guess with Porthos (as well as the Doctor's animals) is that its something like with tornados and earthquakes, that animals are somehow always able to sense it slightly beforehand and freak out a bit.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
There might be a air pressure disturbance (like with weather changes) that animals are privy to but humanoids are not.
I get the feeling there will be LOTS more of those spheres causing gravimetric disturbances and that they're responsible for all the anolamies.
So...Trillium D? Sounds like a crappy band. While not in keeping with starfleet's morals, I'd have stolen everything of value from the Ossarians by way of payback.
I'm guessing the Ossarians sent a shuttle over to Enterprise to retreive their captured crewman: Enterprise does'nt have Voyager's endless shuttle supply.
The expanse is one big roach motel that lets starships in but does'nt let them back out? Nifty.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Hey.. y'know what? This was pretty good episode. Nice music, an actual development (obtaining the Xindi database (or at least 90% of it)). Only minor problem was with the rather uninteresting alien-in-brig character, but you can't win 'em all.
The MACOs fiddle with their guns after Archer gives the order. No actual firing at stun-setting is done, though.
And it was the 'quantum variables' that didn't stay constant (ehhm.. complaining about variables not staying constant..?).
To clear things up a bit, it was only mentioned that the sphere *door* was of the same alloy as the Osaarian ship. Whether that means the rest of the sphere was of a different alloy is not mentioned. But I didn't get the impression that the sphere *was* Osaarian, only that they used one (of multiple) breathable 'habitats' inside the sphere as their base of operations. And the sphere was about 1000 (?) years old.
The NX-01 crew speculates the spheres create the gravimetric distortions in the Expanse. The Osaarian prisoner claimed the Expanse's thermobaric barriers only let ships in, not out. Could the Expanse be a prison built for the Xindi?
==== BIG ASS SPOILER! ====
Apparently, the Xindi will get their very own FutureGuy. And we'll see the return of FutureGuy 1. I reckon these spheres might have something to do with the Temporal War.
==== END OF SPOILER ====
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
-While the phase cannons are back at their typical points, the torpedoes are not. At least once, the photonic clearly do not fire from the (new?) forward central tube. Reed mentions repairing the aft tubeS, but he could be referring to the standard ones.
-The war room now has chairs. On that note, will we stil have the conference room set available? Or will its function now be taken by this one? I don't mind - the conference room set is just the mess hall with monitors covering the food shelves on one side.
-Speaking of which, archer asks the computer to load the Xindi database. While this is not new (he orders the computer to stop and start recording his log in the series premiere), computer commands are very rare otherwise. Upgrade?
-Does Enterprise still have movie night? Everyone is so high strung these days... They need to watch a Jim Carrey movie or two.
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I'm guessing the Ossarians sent a shuttle over to Enterprise to retreive their captured crewman: Enterprise does'nt have Voyager's endless shuttle supply.
Transporters, maybe...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Oh. I thought they'd drop him off at the sphere.
quote: -Speaking of which, archer asks the computer to load the Xindi database. While this is not new (he orders the computer to stop and start recording his log in the series premiere), computer commands are very rare otherwise. Upgrade?
Reed even voice-commands the protein resequencer. I don't think they even used one voice-command in the early episodes. Guess they upgraded (read: forgot about it).
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Okay, looking at Bernd's NX-01 internal deck schematic, it seems I was mistaken, and there IS room to have a cargo bay directly aft of Engineering. I'd have to go look at screencaps to see about the orientation of the room (single door forward, or was it port or starboard?), but it seems that it could fit in there, deck-wise.
They mentioned that the door into the Xindi Death Star was made of Ossarian (dangit, I thought that was fun with a Y!) hull material -- I wonder if the Ossarians actually blasted a hole in the sphere themselves to check out the inside?
Given the Ossarian prisoner's attitude, I'm more surprised that the NX-01's casualty was the guy who got clubbed from behind in the armory, and not the one who got shot in Engineering. So the Ossarians have a stun setting, too?
Re: the MACO stun setting -- I don't recall seeing phase rifles on ENT before... each time the shipboard security had used rifles, I thought they were simply plasma rifles. I would've expected the MACOs to have the latest equipment, anyway.
On a philosophical level, what's wrong with big bad soldiers having the choice of restricting the force they dish out? Today's militaries always seek to find more options, to apply force in different ways. I think the stun setting is fine. It may not be as dramatically exciting to see the Big Bad Marines blow in and kill everything in sight, but it still makes plenty of sense.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote: each time the shipboard security had used rifles, I thought they were simply plasma rifles
Problem is, near the end of last season, those rifles suddenly had phase pistol VFX, instead of the plasma VFX.
What I found a bit strange about the Osaarian prisoner.. how did he know Archer's people were 'too civilized'. He's never met humans before, and didn't have a lot of contact with them on NX-01 either. So either he must have gotten that info from somewhere (or sometime?), or he is very perceptive.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, we haven't seen that many peoples in the Expanse yet, but it could be that the whole area is only slightly above Kazon in civility. Last week, neither the Xindi council nor the mining guys gave the impression of being well to do overall, and future episodes seem to indicate lots of enlightened races ahead. If they make a point of saying that when they inevitably do, it'd be a pretty sweet observation.
As for the plasma rifles, we'd been going on the assumption that they couldn't be altered to stun - they were consistently lethal. However, the only REAL thing we know about the differences is in particle drift factor, as pointed out early in the season. I'm willing to accept that plasma rifles could be set to stun, albeit probably by concussive or thermal force rather than particle or neuro shock, or however phasers stun people.
Anyone think about how the stun grenades work? They seemed to go off with a poof rather than a bang, even though the targets were beaming out in the interm. They could still be similar to curent-day stun grenades, which emit light and sound to disorient the target rather than knock it out...
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Stun Grenades would be like today's "flashbang" stun grenades: extremely loud noise and blinding light cause a temporary sensory overload. We got those now.
As for archer sending over the Yossarian in a shuttle, I infered that by him telling the security guard to "escort him to the landing bay". Probably no transporter in there.
A question: does the hull plating shield against a transporter beam? If not, Enterprise is in serious doo-doo.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Maybe the CC are wrong in this case? Wouldn't be the first "Catch-22" reference in Star Trek. Daneeka, McWatt, Moodus, Orr, and Snowden were mentioned in the DS9 episode "Paradise Lost".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yeah, but they clearly weren't pronouncing a Y, captioning or no. Or at least, not that I heard.
My problem with the MACO rifles having a stun setting is that it sort of removes the point of having phase pistols at all. They were supposed to be the best new thing. All we really know about them is that they fire in a beam and have two settings. I don't object to the idea of...and I just realized, MACO is a pretty silly name, but anyway, to them having lots of different force options. It just makes all that phase pistol talk in the beginning sound kind of silly. Stun and kill, so what?
Now, if only we could see someone carrying around a sawed off version of the "plasma" shotgun from "Broken Bow." (Note: Not really. Because that was kind of silly too.)
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: They mentioned that the door into the Xindi Death Star was made of Ossarian (dangit, I thought that was fun with a Y!) hull material -- I wonder if the Ossarians actually blasted a hole in the sphere themselves to check out the inside?
I'd have to agree with that simply because how easily Enterprise destroyed that lock. You'd think a civilization advanced enough to build that sphere would have a lock strong enough to stop a simple phase cannon blast, or hidden better...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I agree: the lock and door was a new addition. Possicly there was just a rectangular opening there. All the habitat modules inside the sphere looked added on: definitely not part of the sphere's design.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: My problem with the MACO rifles having a stun setting is that it sort of removes the point of having phase pistols at all. They were supposed to be the best new thing. All we really know about them is that they fire in a beam and have two settings. I don't object to the idea of... {..snip..} It just makes all that phase pistol talk in the beginning sound kind of silly. Stun and kill, so what?
Do you really think that Starfleet and whatever organization commands the MACOs would have stopped developing the phase pistol technology, or that the NX-01 was the only ship that would ever get the goods? If these Space Marines are going to be sent out on a mission that will Determine The Future Of Earth�, why wouldn't they get the best tech that Earth has available?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Phase Pistols may simply be more advanced by their power useage or recharge rates.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Except, dare I say it, this sort of goes back to Warren Ellis' criticism. Enterprise was supposed to have the best of the best already. If this was an example of technological improvement, then shouldn't the, alas, MACOs have "phase" rifles?
Don't get me wrong, this is just a minor atmospheric issue that has gotten on my nerves. But, like, couldn't they have phase pistol sidearms available if they needed to stun people? Seperating out the stun and kill functions to different weapons would be different and, in my opinion, neat. It would highlight the contrast between the specialized commandos and the generalized Enterprise crew.
But how about that crash into the sphere at the end, eh? Eh? Neato.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yes it was. They blew out the port nacelle, the ship lost control and careened towards the sphere, and regained control JUST in time to right itself and barely scrape the surface. Quite impressive, and compared to earlier Treks, extravagant.
Extravagant like the away mission to the dead ship. They took a LOT of time and resources to build an alien ship set (a corridor and half of the bridge), prosthetics for the dead aliens, and a lot of time and VFX to show them suiting up and going over to it, then walking around inside for three minutes, and back to debrief. Back in the day, you'd AT BEST have a supplemental log entry saying the gang went over, found a bunch of dead guys and downloaded some computer data, and then cut to everyone getting out of their EVA gear - done with the whole thing in a minute. Not that I didn't mind, and the sequence did add to the tension in this action-oriented episode, but IMO the time could have been better spent on some character development - espeically with Archer's off-the-wall antics.
And back to the plasma rifles... I guess you could say that the MACOs can stun folks, but the phase pistols simplified it by having ONLY two settings instead of multiple settings or a dial or something. Then the military caught up.
Oh, and no one noticed the suits used in "The Core", I see - seeing as they were barely visible in the foreground at all. I guess that means it's okay.
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Wait, what outfits are from that movie again? I thought it was their jumpsuits. But, are you saying that the EVA suits they were wearing were from The Core as well? I mean, I did notice that the helmets were different.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The EVA outfits were apparently from "The Core". Never saw the film, but if the helmets are new, then I guess it's not completely ripped off. What do you need an EVA suit in a ship deisnged to plow through molten rock, anyway?
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I meant that the MACO helmets were different than the regular Starfleet helmets. I've no idea what anything from The Core looked like.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Hey, Simon ... totally off-topic. What happened to that "Trial of the Female Shapeshifter" fic of yours?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Wow. Well, it never really got past the first page or so, and an outline. Everytime I sat down to tinker with it I thought "You know, I could tell a story about my own characters and potentially gain fame and fortune." Plus, I am very lazy. Anyway, it tied in with What SS Thinks Should Happen After DS9.
I had another, more modern idea for a fan fictionesque thing, that was, I thought, kind of neat, and in which the whole trial thing would appear. But, by writing fan fiction I almost inevitably ruin my chances of recieving a National Book Award and being invited to posh get-togethers in the Hamptons. So, it will probably never be. But, I don't know.
In the meantime, I am writing a story, available for public consumption, about some other things, in an effort to replace memories of Unnamed Early Bad Humorous Story with something "better." Uh, I guess I should plug it over in Designs and Creativity, or something.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
AS regards the MACO rifles (and, yes, it is a stupid name, Military Assault Command Operations? Hello? Did someone from the Completely Unnecessary Naming Terminology department think that one up?), has it ever been explicitly stated in these two eps to date that they're plasma rifles, or are we just assuming they are because they fire bursts rather than beams? This is probaly just sloppy post-Voyager FX, not caring whether rifles fire beams or pulses; first the Enterprise rifles did it, next the MACO rifles will suddenly start firing beams.
I'd prefer it if they were Phase Rifles, but on the whole I'm not confident they'll bother to make it consistent. I should have just done a starships website like everyone else, it'd have been less stressful!
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: The EVA outfits were apparently from "The Core". Never saw the film, but if the helmets are new, then I guess it's not completely ripped off. What do you need an EVA suit in a ship deisnged to plow through molten rock, anyway?
Mark
i wouldnt get in such a vehicle without one, actually
but it would ony be as a security blanket.. kind of like how astronauts wear helmets on reentry.. the charred helmets become just one more thing that has to be fished out of Farmer Moore's cornfield when something goes wrong
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Contrary to some arguments here, I would think a special ops or Marine team today would use technology significantly behind "state of the art". These people need technology that assuredly works, and "state of the art" more often than not doesn't.
Of course, in a crisis like this, there is going to be a lot of improvising and experimenting and making-it-as-you-go. However, all that improvising and experimenting is likely to *lower* the odds of mission success rather than raise them. If the MACOs can eliminate at least one uncertainty factor, namely whether their guns are going to fire when the trigger is pulled, they will no doubt insist on something that has demonstrably worked for the past fifty years.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And the NX-01 was supposed to have the newest of the newest tech. So it would figure that the less important (just how many marines do you need on 22nd century Earth?) MACO have less advanced weapons.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
On the other hand, we could look at this like the developement of automatic pistols and automatic rifles. The Luger and simular guns came out pretty early, but the bugs to make automatic efficient and reliable for mass production took longer.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: As expected, a fun episode, for all the above reasons and more! Tons of tech, which we're gonna dig into straight away.
-Porthos, the anomaly detector! What, can he SMELL them coming? Are dogs in Trek latent telepaths? This is the first time we really have a pet like this (acknowledging Spot mostly as comic relief), but has anyone stopped to consider why dogs can do this?Mark
Yes - I'm reading a book at the moment called "Why dogs know when they're owners are coming home" or something like that.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)