Just an advance warning to keep your eyes peeled on this one. Not only are we stepping twelve years into the future - and thus hopefully seeing a few tech-related tidbits and stuff that may figure into the later seasons - but there will also be namedropping and continuity to establish, maintain, and possibly ignore. For example, tonight someone mentions the Ceti Alpha system. Wait for it.
Mark
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!! Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
An absolute joy to watch, both dramatically and tech-wise. Perhaps Enterprise's best so far.
The whole episode is a Continuity bonanza -- Ceti Alpha V! The Mutara System! Alpha Centauri colonies! Yridians! Shran! The return of the Intrepid and Ramirez from "The Expanse!" Some gorgeously composed effects shots of a starship battle! A flotilla of Earth ships! A new Xindi ship! The Zefram Cochrane statue being put to unusual use! Lots of reasons to use exclamation marks!
Plotwise, essentially take "Before and After," "Yesterday's Enterprise," "The Visitor, "Year of Hell," "The Inner Light," the film "Memento" and press puree. The wonderful thing is that the finished product doesn't feel at all derivative.
More spoilerish stuff follows.
$ $ $ $ $ $ $
We're treated to a vision of a potential 12 years of events following Archer's infection with weird temporal microbes that give him Guy Pearce syndrome. T'Pol and Tucker attempt to carry on the mission to stop the Xindi weapon, but Archer proves to be of declining usefulness and the mission runs into snags -- ultimately, Archer is relieved of command and T'Pol is installed as his replacement. The Xindi attack Enterprise, killing Travis in a virtually ignored death scene that is so blink-and-you-miss-it that I'm convinced TPTB were having a bit of fun, and despite mad skillz on T'Pol's part the starboard nacelle takes it up the butt, leaving Enterprise only Warp 1.7 capable. Consequently, the Xindi finish the weapon and cleave Earth into itty-bitty pieces (one of the more interesting VFX in Trek history) and then set about exterminating the human race from the galaxy, leading to Enterprise taking on something of a Battlestar Galactica role and leading a flottila of Earth's remnant ships to set up a new life on Ceti Alpha V, where Archer's continues to live under T'Pol's care. Flash forward 9 years later, and Phlox arrives with new hope for treating his disease...
The actual story is told in a nifty unchronologicalish manner... akin to The Visitor, pretty much, and there's a nifty finale that thematically recalls alt-Picard jumping over the tactical console and firing phasers at the Klingons. As usual, Trek has a fair amount of fun with showing a possible future of the crew, with Captain Tucker, Commander Reed (sporting a rather tacky-looking goatee) and Lieutenant Sato. Mullets are apparently all the rage on Denobula in 2065.
So big kudos from me. Proof Enterprise can tackle some pretty well-trod terrain and turn in a very entertaining hour.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
The writer for the next episode commented that he really wanted the episode to relate to the TOS stories and I think we're seeing that here too. Here's a link. Major spoilage ahead.... http://www.treknation.com/episodes/season3/north_star.shtml Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
This was by far the best episode of Trek since the Dominion War arc!
Now I'm going to have to build the Intrepid! That ship is soooooo coool! A pre-TOS Steamrunner!
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Random points: - Earth is directly attacked, yet again, in Star Trek. The history of Sol System Defense Command remains at everyone else ~5, Humans ~0. - Merriweather DIES! Right near the beginning, too. Just when we thought his role couldn't get any smaller, he takes an exploding console to the face. - Apparently NX-01 has the ability to manufacture warp field coils, which too much like VOY for my taste. - No photonic torpeodes were hurt in the making of this episode, where the heck are those silver bullets anyways? - Some nice clear pictures of the two other classes of Starfleet ships, hope someone made screencaps. Strangely enough, I believe those are the exact same two ships that saved NX-01 from Duras. Just how small is Starfleet???? - The Vulcans apparently stood by and let the Xindis destroy Earth. Although it's implied that they couldn't stop The Weapon with their forces, it's also implied that they made no attempt to try. All they did was half-heartedly try to help the survivors of Earth. - Some different ships in the BSG fleet, they look rather familiar. - Reese gets his command blown away, before he even gets to do some commanding. - Yiridian, the galaxy's ugliest information merchant, returns. This time the humans gets to slap around the alien of the week, instead of the other way around. - NX-01 gets shields! Well, we knew it was gonna happen sooner or later, at least it was only for one episode. Wonder who's the General Shan they got it from... - The Weapon is Death Star mini, nothing more, nothing less. Wonder why Earth didn't just build a giant phase cannon to counter it, or a swarm of hunter-killer drones to encircle Earth. It's not like they'd cost that much, in the face of humanity's survival. - The Denobulans continues to help human, I like those people. - Vulcan isolationism remains strong, why is the Ambassador still alive? I guess he ran back to Vulcan long before the weapon struck. - T'Pol's allergic reactions aside, someone really should coat the NX-01 with the Vulcan equivilant of the T-Virus to stop those damn anomolies.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I think this one's definitely among the best of the series to date, too. I've always had a soft spot for those self-contained temporal-reset-button shows, like "Yesterday's Enterprise." (There's a difference between the temporal reset button and the series reset button, of course... I'm talking about where they explicitly show that the entire episode never happened, not where they just ignore character changes from week to week.)
That new Xindi Death Star kicks ass! Looks like it was around 500 to 600 meters across, when compared with the two accompanying Xindi-Reptilian cruisers. And the Xindi decided not to stop at Earth, but went after Mars, Alpha Centauri, Vega Colony -- those are the major Human colonies. There were barely 6,000 left after that. But what about Terra Nova?
THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE!!!!!!!
I think that the funniest part of the episode was the part that was left unsaid, although I'm sure that there was a line to the effect of "Enterprise is leading a rag-tag fleet..." Battlestar Enterprise, anyone?
Mutara System, too.
It took the rag-t-- er, that is, the convoy -- a year to get to Ceti Alpha V. Assuming that they were only making Warp 2 (with the Y-class freighters in their group), that's not quite as far as it might sound.
We see the Intrepid! Dialogue bracketing some awesome special effects confirmed that the Intrepid was indeed the unique saucer-like ship seen in "The Expanse," while there was at least one of those other Norway-esque ships flying around, too.
I suppose we can't blame the production crew for trying to save money, but couldn't they at LEAST have tried to disguise that damn cryo-stasis unit from "Voyager" a bit better? I was getting flashbacks from "Before and After" and "Threshold"... not a pleasant experience!
I somehow doubt that this was intended to be a red herring, but for a few minutes I was expecting that unidentified small ship to be from the future. The view from the underside with the wings and semi-spherical engine pods made me think of the Aeon. Was that ship just a re-use of the model for the Axanar cargo ship, the one that we also saw on "Voyager" a few times?
Also looks like the Xindi-Insectoids are using different ships from the Reptilians... that's an interesting touch.
Nice to know that the Andorians were willing to give the Human remnant forcefield technology for defense, when the Vulcans obviously didn't... Tucker mentioned General Shran -- t'would be interesting to know how the Vulcans and Andorians got along without the Humans to mediate over the long run... (I find it odd that the Vulcans didn't even offer to loan a few combat cruisers to patrol the Sol System while the NX-01 was away... there's a very clear threat to a planetary population -- why wouldn't they help, even if they won't share technology? Afraid of becoming the next target?)
And next week, the NX-01 meets the American Old West. Nice to know that UPN's keeping up its tendency to go from the sublime to the ridiculous... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
General Shran is the Andorian commander from seasons one and two.
About time they asked for andorian help! Those Vulcans are useless!
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Responses here...
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: [QB]- Apparently NX-01 has the ability to manufacture warp field coils, which too much like VOY for my taste.
Well, Tucker did say that the coils were fused, not vaporized. That means that the material was intact -- my guess is that they had to reshape them to be useful for propulsion, a process which would be difficult and time-consuming (because of the extremely dense material used for warp coils).
quote:- No photonic torpeodes were hurt in the making of this episode, where the heck are those silver bullets anyways?
Simple -- Tucker said that antimatter was in short supply. The wouldn't waste it on weapons when they needed to power their ships.
quote:I believe those are the exact same two ships that saved NX-01 from Duras. Just how small is Starfleet????
Well, aside from the Intrepid, which was mentioned by name, those could easily have been different ships. We didn't see any names on the hulls -- not even on the Intrepid, which had a BEAUTIFUL death sequence!
quote:- NX-01 gets shields! Well, we knew it was gonna happen sooner or later, at least it was only for one episode. Wonder who's the General Shan they got it from...
SHRAN, not Shan. The Andorian guy. Remember?
quote:- The Weapon is Death Star mini, nothing more, nothing less. Wonder why Earth didn't just build a giant phase cannon to counter it, or a swarm of hunter-killer drones to encircle Earth. It's not like they'd cost that much, in the face of humanity's survival.
Probably because Earth doesn't have the manufacturing ability to get all those weapons ready in time? I dunno... I got the impression that Earth was definitely mounting a defense as the Death Star approached, it just wasn't doing any good. There could've been any number of planetary defenses there, in that case...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Right.... The Andorian guy.....
Anyone wonder why no one else's worried about the Xindis enough to take them out? I bet if the Andorians and Vulcans come together, they can do it. Considering those guys have the ability to pop planets like pimples and the willigness to do it wholesale, I'm surprised there isn't a rush to destroy the Xindi weapon and annhilate their race before they build more of them and conquer the galaxy.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
You know, I think that someone on the writing staff has a really sick and perverted sense of humor.
Has anyone considered what would probably happen if that timeline had continued, and the Earth colony managed to survive? A minor "incident" about two hundred and ten years after the founding of the colony, circa 2267?
Does Ceti Alpha Six ring a bell?
Assuming that the planet's explosion was a natural phenomenon, the internal pressure (or whatever caused it to explode) must've been building for thousands of years, geologically speaking. So that could be considered a constant event across timelines. And so the "shining planet, known as Ceti Alpha Five" would've become a death trap instead! And they probably wouldn't have had Khan's genetically-enhanced superiority to help them survive, either!
Egad... can you imagine what might've happened if the Human remnant did survive, and they ended up running across the Botany Bay as it headed out towards the Mutara Sector? With only six thousand people left, just how desperate might they have been? Might Khan have actually had a chance of taking over under those circumstances?
(Man, alternate timelines are fun, but never quite so much as when you're talking about destruction on a planetary scale! )
Posted by BJ_O (Member # 858) on :
Am I seeing things, or did they very subtly tweak the displays to look slightly closer to Kirk's ship?
B.J.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
That was the first Season 3 ep I've seen . . . and I doubt I could've ended up with better. Holy crap! That was truly superb. Who the hell wrote that? It couldn't have been Braga.
The nice touches abounded in this episode, and despite being a reset button episode the continuity was simply astonishing, both in reference to the entire series and the entire franchise.
I can only hope they maintain and/or exceed this quality in the future. Change the theme and move the show to a better timeslot, and they could resurrect Trek.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Holy FRACKING FRICK, this was a good show! I had to watch the opening bit three times before I could move on, it was so excellent. Just look at the reactions of everyone to Earth blowing up - even the extras behind Archer. Beautiful, as with the rest of the episode. On we go - note that I haven't read most of the other posts, so apologies in advance for any overlap.
-Note that during the attack, the huge-ass sphere jumps in AFTER the Reptilian ships. This implies that the Reptilians were there to clear the way of Starfleet resistance and give the sphere nothing to do but shoot. There were only two ships flanking the sphere... I'd imgine the Xindi would attack with more.
-Ahh, I think the whole Xindi probe thing makes more sense now, given the big weapon's intended effect (and result!). The probe's beam obviously didn't blow up the planet; it's likely that its purpose was to test the conditions of the Earth's crust, atmosphere such that the big one can do the job right. They didn't want to simply raze the planet - they wanted to destroy it outright.
-The little green chair in Archer's room that he wakes up in is the most TOS-ish chair since... TOS, really.
-The movie this week was "Rosemary's Baby". Yeesh, they seem to be getting more recent, no? Attendance is not mandatory for the senior officers.
-While zoned, Archer comes up with a way of upgrading the antimatter inducers - increasing fuel efficiency. Given his condition, he came up with it in a matter of hours. Smart guy.
-This is the first time they mentioned communicating with Starfleet via the buoys they left behind.
-The Reptilians' armor seems to be less effective this time... It takes a single shot to take one down.
-Did anyone else notice the imaginative use of the Zephram Cochrane statuette as an anti-intruder weapon?
-The Enterprise brig was designed only for two people - in other words, the one we've seen is the only one they've got.
-With one warp nacelle, they can manage a plodding warp 1.7. I think this is the first real evidence that starships CAN function with one nacelle lost, albeit at severely reduced speed.
-T'Pol notes that by the time they found where the Xindi weapon was being built, it had already been deployed. I wonder how they got it to Earth? And more importantly, how could Enterprise have gotten back BEOFRE it, damaged for six months as she was?
-People seem to be noting that the Vulcans and the Andorians may have been able to help avert the disaster. Indeed so - but with them hating each other so much, they may have been able to fare better. Hey, if they were working together, in a "Federation" of sorts, maybe so. Maybe so.
-We see Ceti Alpha V... And Trip notes that it's barely M-class, with a definite lack of blue and green. Didn't Kirk's gang say something about the place being a "paradise" for Khan?
-CETI EELS, man! Wouldn't this be a fricking PROBLEM here keeping people up at night?
-The bosun's whistle is REAL on this ship. Stoopid ST6.
-I think there were at least a couple ships that were new in the ragtag fleet, though the known freighters and research ship we've seen seem curiously absent. I'll have to take a closer look, but I think the ol' triangle ship was in the mix. The Yridian ship Enterprise disables was first seen as Ahab's vessel in "Voyager Vs. the Pitcher Plant", and has already been seen in this series in "Broken Bow" as the ship whose backwash knocked T'Pol halfway across the Rigelian landing deck.
-Speaking of which, Rudy Ransom discovered the Yridians, eh? Hehe.
-The new Xindi ship this time is the Insectoid ship... They seem to be less resilient to phase cannons than the Reptilian ships.
-The other Starfleet ships left over were Intrepid and one of the smaller ships. They seemed in pretty good repair... Would they have gone to other systems to stay that way?
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:-T'Pol notes that by the time they found where the Xindi weapon was being built, it had already been deployed. I wonder how they got it to Earth? And more importantly, how could Enterprise have gotten back BEOFRE it, damaged for six months as she was?
I figure they had repaired at least some of the damage to the warp coil by then. Plus the Xindi would have had to fend off whatever starfleet ships were built since Enterprise entered the Expanse (plus the Intrepid and the two Norway-esque ships). The Andorians might have sent ships to engage Xindi vessels as well: we only saw the area of Earth's orbit, not the whole Solar System.
T'Pol verifies that the Vulcans were holding back Earth's warpdrive development!
Good re-use of old ship sets on the "colony"! Explained even!
The Romulan War never happened in that timeline because the Rommies wouldnt want to screw with planet-destroying-xindi!
Looks like Porthos dies of old age by the time Phlox arrives with his cure for Archer. Am I the only one that cares about that dog? ...oh, and Mayweather croaked too.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Actually, I wondered about Porthos... for some reason I expected him to show up. Anyway, I checked, and yeah, the original production report mentioned he'd appear as an old doggy 12 years in the future. Looks like he got edited out.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Somebody got bit when they tried putting that gray hair color on him!
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: [QB] Holy FRACKING FRICK, this was a good show! I had to watch the opening bit three times before I could move on, it was so excellent. Just look at the reactions of everyone to Earth blowing up - even the extras behind Archer. Beautiful, as with the rest of the episode.
I hope that SOMEONE has a good digital feed and can give us some great screencaps for a change!
quote:-Note that during the attack, the huge-ass sphere jumps in AFTER the Reptilian ships.
Considering the question of how the NX-01 made it from the Expanse back to Earth at Warp 1.7 with only one nacelle... perhaps they made use of one of those FTL portals that apparently exist? I was too stunned by the awesome effects to follow that I missed what the Death Star looked like as it jumped in -- was it the same transwarp-style effect as before?
quote:-Ahh, I think the whole Xindi probe thing makes more sense now, given the big weapon's intended effect (and result!). The probe's beam obviously didn't blow up the planet; it's likely that its purpose was to test the conditions of the Earth's crust, atmosphere such that the big one can do the job right. They didn't want to simply raze the planet - they wanted to destroy it outright.
Yeah, but why the heck would they need to know that kind of information? Like the original Death Star, all they've got to do is pump in enough energy to blow the planet apart -- there's nothing that special about Earth to make them need that kind of info... right?
quote:-The Reptilians' armor seems to be less effective this time... It takes a single shot to take one down.
I was actually more disappointed that they didn't just disable the frelling weapons with that delta radiation gimmick that they mentioned last week! But anyway, the ENT crew had the chance to examine Xindi armor thanks to the corpse they got from the raid in "Rajin." Obviously they adapted. I consider that a GOOD point!
quote:-With one warp nacelle, they can manage a plodding warp 1.7. I think this is the first real evidence that starships CAN function with one nacelle lost, albeit at severely reduced speed.
Something just occurred to me... aren't the NX-01's warp coils supposed to be ASYMMETRICAL? As in, they require both nacelles to form a proper warp field? Based on what we know of warp fields -- from Okudagrams and the like -- I find it hard to believe that it'd be that simple...
quote:-CETI EELS, man! Wouldn't this be a fricking PROBLEM here keeping people up at night?
Well, since the eels managed to survive in the aftermath, I would venture to guess that they weren't native to the area of the planet where the settlements got planted. Maybe they like to hang out in the deserts instead...
quote:-I think there were at least a couple ships that were new in the ragtag fleet, though the known freighters and research ship we've seen seem curiously absent.
I'm 99% positive that I saw at least one Y-class freighter in the first "rag-tag fugitive fleet" scene. Not sure about the others... here's praying for good screencaps!
quote:-Speaking of which, Rudy Ransom discovered the Yridians, eh? Hehe.
LMAO, I completely forgot about that! And "Equinox" happened right in the middle of Braga's tenure as Voyager EP, too! Go figure...
quote:-The other Starfleet ships left over were Intrepid and one of the smaller ships. They seemed in pretty good repair... Would they have gone to other systems to stay that way?
Assuming they could get the basic materials necessary, I'd guess they would've had sufficient repair setups right in the system. Tucker commented that they didn't have much antimatter, which would probably be (relatively) easy to get a hold of if they went to another system... I think that they were probably just sitting on their hands inside the system with their hands covering their eyes, yelling "you can't see me! you can't see me!" That's why the Xindi couldn't find the last remnants for so long! Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I gather the Yridians were discovered twice. After all, Janeway said everybody thought they were dead before Ransom proved otherwise... An odd way of phrasing it if nobody had even heard of them before Ransom's encounter.
Wow... Just reading about this sends waves of shudder up and down my spine, beating out "E-P-I-C" in Morse code. And the concept that Earth's last survivors would find "refuge" on Ceti Alpha V - priceless!
So, what else can they milk out of the Expanse/Xindi concept? They've sort of run the worst case scenario already. Are they supposed to play a variant of it out for us in slower tempo, like they did "Year of Hell" after "Before and After"? But sort of vice versa, since the reset button now comes in the first episode, not the second?
What sort of damage did the nacelle take? Could it be that the heroes just moved five coils out of fifteen in the starboard one to replace the ten destroyed port ones? I like the concept of "limping on one screw", but there are other ways to interpret this one.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
Whats so priceless about Ceti Alpha V? What am I missing?
Oh wait... khan, right? Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: What sort of damage did the nacelle take? Could it be that the heroes just moved five coils out of fifteen in the starboard one to replace the ten destroyed port ones? I like the concept of "limping on one screw", but there are other ways to interpret this one.
Think TNG's "Cause and Effect" in terms of damage, only a little more restricted in scope because the ship wasn't already hit by a total systems failure like the E-D was...
Here's the scenario -- there were two Xindi-Reptilian warships circling like vultures. One of them connected to the NX-01's starboard docking port to board the ship, while the other one kept firing from afar. An exploding console killed Mayweather before he could utter one line in the episode, and T'Pol took the helm. With the Xindi ship still docked, she deliberately rammed the attached ship into the other one, causing major damage to both and effectively ending the battle in the Enterprise's favor. Except for the fact that the starboard nacelle was half-destroyed -- the bussard collector shredded and a long, deep gash torn into the outboard side of the nacelle.
Your scenario about swapping out warp coils sounds plausible... except for the unfortunate fact that Tucker explicitly mentions "running on one warp engine." (And he forgets the difference between a "nacelle" and an "engine," but we can forgive him since Earth was about to be destroyed. )
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
In the rag-tag fleet shots, while I was going frame by frame, for my almost-high quality screen shots, I noticed that there was also what looked a LOT like the freighter from ST-III
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
New screenshots. They're not big, but they hold up pretty well when rescaling.
From what I could see, the refugee fleet was comprised of Enterprise, Intrepid, at least one of the triangular vessels, at least one (empty) Class Y and at least one Class J and some other ships I couldn't recognize.
The ships obviously are all warp-capable, but didn't one of the 'freighter' episodes state Y's (or J's) can actually go a bit faster when empty?
And YES, the displays were more TOS-ish in the future scenes. Primary colors were red, yellow and green instead of the pastel tints from regular ENT.
FINALLY, a 100% canon reference to the nature of Alpha Centauri (Fandom's 'Centaurians' vs. vague possibility of Earth colony). However, Alpha Centauri being colonized completely negates Terra Nova's claim as first extrasolar colony. Which was a silly claim anyway.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It depends. Alpha C may have taken a while to properly colonize - needing terraforming, for example. I'm sure someone can come up with a decent explanation.
Hey, I've also noticed that the Xindi apparently acquire some transporter technology in the interm... They have to dock with Enterprise to board her at first, but in the final act they beam aboard. Looks like both sides made technological jumps over the years, which makes enough sense.
Oh, and the death star does jump in via transwarp thingy. Good for them.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Regarding Alpha Centauri, it seems that Terra Nova was colonized before *Mars* was! Apparently, it is faster to do a long interstellar hop and settle on a class M planet than to do a shorter hop or even a sublight insystem journey and then try and turn habitable a non-M world.
Regarding Ceti Alpha, it now seems well established that it is a nearby system that has little to do with the star Alpha Ceti. (It could be the Alpha half of a wide binary currently known as Ypsilon Ceti and mistaken for a single star, or something like that...) And Kirk didn't refer to it as a paradise - he told Khan that it would be a challenge, far from paradise, yet would offer a chance of survival. Sounds like a place that Earth would not colonize right away even if it was nearer than the relatively lush Terra Nova.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well, I had this DSL connection sitting here doing nothing, so I thought I do me a bit of Torrentin' and actually watch a 3rd-season ep. And then I got me in the mood for some cappin' - now I just got to figure outr why I'm a-talkin' like Trip all of a sudden!
Why the heck didn't they bother to label these ships?
Do we get a good glimpse of the Intrepid shoulderpatch?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nope. Reed had been detailed to take her over from Ramirez, but hadn't donned the patch or pin by the time the Xindi showed up. He wasn't even aboard her at the end...
The Eden FX guys were probably pretty busy with the rest of the effects sequences (there were a LOT in this episode!) and simply missed labelling them; in that respect, it's a fair bet that the ships in "The Expanse" were also not labelled. Perhaps Enterprise is the first to be so detailed on the outside... None of the other Earth or Starfleet ships we've seen were so prominently marked up.
Speaking of Intrepid, notice that the nacelles overlap onto the saucer section, but do NOT attach to it. When she loses her left nacelle, it's pretty smooth underneath. Interesting to have a nacelle in such close proximity and NOT have it attached... Also, it just ocurred to me that Intrepid and the smaller ships could probably land given their size and winglet / aerodynamic look. This would make maintenance a heck of a lot easier, methinks.
Mark
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I never noticed before, but in terms of the way its component units are arranged, the Intrepid looks like a TOS version of a Steamrunner! When you add the Akiraprise and the Iceland, sorry, proto-Norway to the mix - makes you wonder whether they're just doing it to annoy us. . . We should have a "Design the proto-Sabre before they do" competition or something. 8)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
What the hell... Lee, let's call it the Iceland for argument's sake. Let's just keep 'em "Iceland-type" and "Intrepid-type" for now though, yes? Personally, I think we should wait a little while before arbitrarily giving it a class name. Something might pop up.
And yeah, I think a few people have called it a proto-steamrunner already. funny, that... Akira ---> Enterprise and everyone hates it; Steamrunner ---> Intrepid and it's love at first sight.
Mark
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Something just occurred to me... aren't the NX-01's warp coils supposed to be ASYMMETRICAL? As in, they require both nacelles to form a proper warp field? Based on what we know of warp fields -- from Okudagrams and the like -- I find it hard to believe that it'd be that simple...
Warp coils work efficiently when they are paired. There is nothing that dictates they have to be paired.
The Asymmetrical part comes in with the warp field... it's like a triangle. The sides are symmetrical to each other but the front is wider than the back. Thus you can think of it as the back of the warp field squeezing the ship towards the wider front.
A vessel with a single nacelle will have have a harder time moving for a few reasons. 1) Half the power is gone. 2) Their remaining nacelle is off the center axis... the warp field has to be realigned. 3) Endurance is halved (remember that to run at the same level as before, the single nacelle has to work as hard as two, but it's only one nacelle. It can't run that hard very long, or on a regular basis). 4) Manueverability is essentially nothing now (prior to this, it was easy to turn a ship at warp by increasing or decreasing power in one nacelle causing a field imbalance [more power on the left, makes you turn right and vice versa... it's like propellers in water]). I can't figure out a way to do that with just one set of field coils (the fore-aft imbalance that makes a warp field asymmetrical is a product of the way the energize the coils, there is simply no way to turn with one set of coils). Then again, "Speed of light, no left or right" has some meaning here.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I still don't see how people think the triangular ship looks like the Norway... Posted by BJ_O (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by J: The Asymmetrical part comes in with the warp field... it's like a triangle. The sides are symmetrical to each other but the front is wider than the back. Thus you can think of it as the back of the warp field squeezing the ship towards the wider front.
That may be true (or not), but they actually mean the coils themselves are asymmetrical. If you look at the display on the front of the warp core, you'll see that each set of warp coils is made of two halves, with the outboard half being much larger than the inboard half.
B.J.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Well, I have to say that I think it�s a nice bit of continuity that we have the NX-01-Akira, "Iceland"-Norway and "Intrepid"-Steamrunner. Hell, not many people complained with the whole excelsior-via-ambassador-to-galaxy thing? Personally I would like to se not a pre-saber but definetly a pre-miranda!
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Actually, the 'Iceland's' primary hull reminds me of the Akyazi's. Looks like a good ep!
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
There is no pre-Steamrunner present at all, to me. The Steamrunner is basically a stupid box shape, with a random act of deflector nutsack haphazardly hanging down between nacelles in ridiculous configuration (for both maintenance and adventurious designsmanship).
Intrepid, meanwhile, has a half-saucer with a long spine, to which are attached warp engines which reach far forward. I don't see a resemblance.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Has anyone recognized that second ship from the left yet?
And it can't be Iceland class. It should be something like IS Class (ISO code for Iceland ).
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Doesnt look like its made from the same shiny-coppery metal as the Earth ships so mabye it's a Andorian transport. It vaguely looks like that design ethic.
It also looks vaguely like a Vor'Cha, but I seriously doubt the klingons would be helpfull under any circumstances.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
If I were to guess, I'd say the Iceland-type would maybe be the oldest of the ships. . . followed by the Intrepid-type, then of course the NX. The former could conceivably be some sort of lifting-body-shuttle, heavily retrofitted to include warp nacelles. Unlikely, but it might have been that early warp-ship developers weren't that familiar with warp-field geomteries and wanted to streamline as much as possible, and went with the tried and tested lifting body shape.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
The ship is the old Hazari from Voyager, I think
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
I was actually more disappointed that they didn't just disable the frelling weapons with that delta radiation gimmick that they mentioned last week! __________________________________________________
Remember though that the Xindi also had 12 years to adapt countermeasures to Enterprises bag o' tricks as well. They probably genetically engineered new worm power packs that weren't vulnerable to delta radiation.
Speaking of weapons. Some of those stuntmen probably had a sore back after being yanked back on the wire to simulate getting blown back 15 feet by the Xindi weapons. I've never seen a better combination of stunts, FX, and story in Trek. __________________________________________________
With one warp nacelle, they can manage a plodding warp 1.7. I think this is the first real evidence that starships CAN function with one nacelle lost, albeit at severely reduced speed.
Something just occurred to me... aren't the NX-01's warp coils supposed to be ASYMMETRICAL? As in, they require both nacelles to form a proper warp field? Based on what we know of warp fields -- from Okudagrams and the like -- I find it hard to believe that it'd be that simple... __________________________________________________
It only looked like a few of the forward warp coils were fused though, maybe the ones further aft could generate enough of a field to at least allow them to limp home? __________________________________________________
I'm 99% positive that I saw at least one Y-class freighter in the first "rag-tag fugitive fleet" scene. Not sure about the others... here's praying for good screencaps! _________________________________________________
I think there was two. One with cargo pods and one with only the drive section and the cargo maglock spine attached. __________________________________________________
quote:-Speaking of which, Rudy Ransom discovered the Yridians, eh? Hehe.
LMAO, I completely forgot about that! And "Equinox" happened right in the middle of Braga's tenure as Voyager EP, too! Go figure... __________________________________________________
Not a continuity error at all since the timeline was altered and they never encountered the Yridian now.
Anyone notice the nice manuever pulled off by the Intrepid in the final big battle? It started off firing at the Xindi inverted, flipped over in place, then resumed firing right side up. Not that it should be a difficult manuever in space but I've never seen a Trek ship do that before. I wonder why it was inverted in the first place. A rapid reversing manuever perhaps? Bringing some additional weapon on the underside of the ship to bear?
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Bond, James Bond, read Timo�s post a page back. First contact with the yridians were made sometime before Ransom, probably a long time befor, because it was clearly said in "Equinox" that he "rediscovered" the yridians. Somehow, people thought they became extinct...
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
So nothings changed really because humans may never discover them now that the timeline has been returned to normal until the time of Ransom. They're only unknown and thought extinct to the Federation in the future, not everyone.
The Yridians may actually live in the Expanse and that's why they were thought to be extinct for so long. That's if the Expanse survives.
Speaking of which, the Enterprise seems to have overcome the problem of not being able to leave the Expanse as mentioned in "Anomoly".
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
An alternate explanation is that they were thought to go extinct after Enterprise's time period and were then rediscovered in Ransom's time.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bond, James Bond: Speaking of which, the Enterprise seems to have overcome the problem of not being able to leave the Expanse as mentioned in "Anomoly".
I figure the Enterprise managed to sneak into one of those Xindi subspace conduit things they transport the weapon through.
No way they got all the way back to earth on one nacelle in time to actually see the attack. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: We should have a "Design the proto-Sabre before they do" competition or something. 8)
Actually, I do believe that Masao already did that! (Although he told me that he hadn't yet seen the Saber when he first sketched out the Kestrel...)
quote:Originally posted by J: Warp coils work efficiently when they are paired. There is nothing that dictates they have to be paired.
The Asymmetrical part comes in with the warp field... it's like a triangle. The sides are symmetrical to each other but the front is wider than the back. Thus you can think of it as the back of the warp field squeezing the ship towards the wider front.
Yes, that's what I'm talking about... but the warp field also needs to be symmetrical when you're looking at it from the TOP OF THE SHIP. With asymmetrical warp coils, you can't get the balance of the fields for the whole ship -- or you shouldn't anyway. I still think that something like that should tear the ship apart sooner than it would send them anywhere at Warp 1.7...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Tangent - it just ocurred to me that the NX bridge chair is the same as the one on the "Neptune Class" surveyors (this from the episode where everyone goes obsessive-compulsive space happy). If someone can dig up a screenshot of Ramirez aboard the Intrepid from "The Expanse", and if he's using the same chair as on the Enterprise bridge...
Also, another Captain Ramirez commanded the ill-fated USS Valiant in the DS9 episode of the same name...
Mark
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
If I could be arsed, at this point I might Photoshop a picture of Sean Connery in Highlander sitting in a captain's chair. . . 8)
I like that Kestrel. Although the side-view doesn't really do it for me.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
"I am Juan Sanchez Villalobos Ramirez... and I am in command of this starship."
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
If you make that, I'll put Davros in an admiral's uniform and stick him in the center seat on the TOS Enterprise.
Mabye I can make a nice Spok Dalek....
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
It's also possible the starboard nacelle wasn't completely dead. You could still see the blue glow at the very rear of it, which implies a coil or two might've remained intact.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Heh, I can just see the bridge crew getting violently ill, corkscrewing along, at warp 1.7...
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: It's also possible the starboard nacelle wasn't completely dead. You could still see the blue glow at the very rear of it, which implies a coil or two might've remained intact.
Correct. From the Closed Caption logs:
The starboard nacelle's a lost cause -- half the coils have been fused. How long to repair them? If we were at Jupiter Station, three weeks. Out here... I'd have to rebuild the coil assembly from scratch. Six months, minimum. For now, the best I can give you is warp one-point-seven. We're not going to get very far at that speed. Resume our previous heading. Dismissed. How can we keep going with one warp engine? There's no other option.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: Heh, I can just see the bridge crew getting violently ill, corkscrewing along, at warp 1.7...
Couldn't be much worse than Kirk's warp two pivot from "Elaan of Troyius", or even the circling at warp ten from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".
"Keptin, ve have no seatbelts (vhich vere Russian inventions) but vhat about dose barf-bags vor veak American stomacks?"
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Hey, is it just me, or are the Intrepid and the Flying Turnover both missing impulse engines? I can't seem to find them on the caps I've nabbed from various places.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Some kinda blue glow at the rear of the Iceland's nacelles. . . Or maybe part of the Intrepid's spine?
Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: Hey, is it just me, or are the Intrepid and the Flying Turnover both missing impulse engines? I can't seem to find them on the caps I've nabbed from various places.
Look carefully at the (heh heh) Flying Turnover's rear... at the very back of it is some sort of impulse engine looking thing (the "crystal" at the center of the top of it). I don't know if this makes any sense... I'm kind of tired. Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Yes, that's what I'm talking about... but the warp field also needs to be symmetrical when you're looking at it from the TOP OF THE SHIP. With asymmetrical warp coils, you can't get the balance of the fields for the whole ship -- or you shouldn't anyway. I still think that something like that should tear the ship apart sooner than it would send them anywhere at Warp 1.7...
Look at the GCS' warp field schematics. The only only time it's symmetrical is when you're look at the ventral and forward axis but that's because they are the same fold just from a different view.
If you rearrange the warp field of the NX-E so that the "top" is actually the side of the vessel with the good nacelle... then adjust the field coils so that they are balanced closer to the center of the ship [which should throw the warp field off to the other side]. All in all, I think it's doable as long as you keep it slow, faster speeds require more delicate field manipulation.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
From looking at the "Expanse" shots at stguardian.to, it looks like the impulse engines of the ships just weren't lit in this episode.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
And looking at the "Expanse" shots from my videotape, the Intrepid command chair is NOT the same as on Enterprise. Whatever a Neptune-class surveyor is, Intrepid ain't it.
Mark
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Perhaps those Icelands are Neptune class surveyors? IIRC, the Neptune could only do about Warp 3.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Warp 2, I think. At least a decade old, as well.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Coulda been upgraded. "Horizon" implies that even an old Y-class freighter could be refitted with a warp 3 engine.
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