Okay, a few general comments after the episode's done:
-- Did anyone catch the name of Shran's ship? I don't watch the shows with the closed captioning on, and didn't tape it 'cause I don't have a VCR at my dorm.
-- Was it just me, or was that prototype awfully damn SMALL?! Now, I realize that the Xindi are basically building these Death Star ripoffs as they go along, but the FX of Shran's ship capturing the sphere made it look like it was too small to even put a person inside. We know that the first probe from "The Expanse" was piloted, so it would have to be at least that big... Archer seemed to think that they could haul the probe into the Enterprise's landing bay. That's awfully small for something that shattered a whole moon.
-- Is it just me, or are these Xindi overdoing the destruction a bit? Based on what I know about physics, if they managed to leave a big crack in Earth's crust, it would effectively wipe out all life on the planet anyway. Why are they so desperate for a single big kaboom?
-- Dialogue seems to confirm that the Andorians are technologically on a par with the Vulcans in basically every respect. Not surprising given the conflict in ENT, but strange that there seems to be very little advancement in warp drive speeds between ENT and TOS!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
THe Andorian ship was about 50-70% longer than Enterprise so the Sphere could be about 10-15 meters across. Big enough to squeeze into the cargo bay but small for a planetkiller do-dah.
I wonder if we'll see Enterprise have better warp speed sustainability with that antimatter injector Shran gave to Trip? It would explain how Enterprise got back to Earth so quick for the begining of "Twilight".
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
-- Timestamp: December 6th, 2153
-- They've recovered ~30% of the lost data from last week's erasure from the "redundant memory core" and are beginning to reconstruct a map of the spatial anomalies.
-- The Andorian Imperial Guard has been moitoring communications between Starfleet and the Vulcan High Command. They know about everything from the Xindi attack to T'pol's resignation.
-- There are black (dark-skinned) humanoid Xindis as well.
-- Lt. Talas, tactical officer aboard the Andorian Imperial warship Kumari, hasn't seen weaponry as primitive as Enterprise's since her tactical training days.
-- Andorian ale looks (surprise!!!!) EXACTLY LIKE ROMULAN ALE.
-- The Andorians have force-field technology. (I thought not even the Vulcans had this??)
-- The Andorian rank sytem has the higher-ups called "General" rather than "Admiral."
-- Andorian blood is blue. (I know, seems like a no-brainer, but still... Actually, it's interesting that the capillaries in their eyes seem to be quite red. )
-- God damn, I love that Andorian ship design...! Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:The Andorian rank sytem has the higher-ups called "General" rather than "Admiral."
Well, we already know this from "Twilight".
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Sorry, didn't remember that.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Sorry, didn't remember that.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
And dark skinned Xindi has always been on that deciding council since their first apperance: the actor was the captain of the saratoga from SAAB.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The Andorians have way better ships than Earth. In fact, they seem to be as powerful as any 23rd/24th century vessel.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Oh...I dont know....definitely in the sensor departments but if you consider Lt. Talas, said she "hasn't seen weaponry as primitive as Enterprise's since her tactical training days", that implies that Andorians were using simmular weapons during her training. Mabye 10-15 years prior to this episode, tops.
Of couse, war breeds tech leaps and the Andorians have been going at it with the Vulcans for some time now so a lot of their planet's efforts are probably ging into tech development.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Quick question: the andorian ship dropped of something at the end, what was that? floating in space..
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The escape pod with Archer inside.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
One expects that we will see more story with Archer and Shran. Now the Vulcans will be trying to steal the secrets that the Andorians have....
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hot damn, a good episode! Charged with drama and character pieces, and loaded with the tech!
-Not TREK tech, but in the production department, wasn't that big anomaly a VFX doozy? The huge wave going through the bridge blew me away! I loved the moving shot as Archer was blown back into his chair, and the shot moves behind him following the wave through the aft bulkhead. Sweet!
-Ditto with the shot where Shran pops up on the viewer, and it looks like Archer had sprouted antennae. Heh.
-This is the first time T'Pol has witnessed anomalies that literally seemed to GANG UP on the ship. Before, they just seemed to be random bubbles of differently-physicalized space. I'm hoping this gets adressed later.
-Reed notes that the torpedoes happened to be in "safe mode", which presumably helped keep them from accidental detonation. Safe mode? What would be involved with this? Is he talking assembled, but inactive somehow? Most current supplementary material tends to indicate that torpedoes are loaded only shortly before being fired.
-What IS it with Reed and alien tactical officer babes, eh?
-This is obviously a very politically-charged episode, deepening the Andorian-Vulcan conflict we've seen. Enterprise needs an Andorian on the ship. Female, preferably, for some interesting catfights. Anyway, Andorians seem interested only in honoring agreements that suit them, suggesting that they tend to agree to things first, but then have no problem casting it aside if it doesn't go their way. I've had friends like that.
-Reed is seen consuming lots of coffee to stay awake - the first real mention in Trek about caffeine. FYI, regular brewed coffee contains on average three times the amount of caffeine than tea.
-In the same scene, Tucker is seen eating what looks like a ruffled potato chip. I don't think we've ever SEEN potato chips on Trek before...
-Can anyone remember what the last timestamp was? I think this was the first one this season.
-Andorian antimatter injectors use variable-compression nozzles. I'd say this helps fine tune the antimatter stream.
-An unknown ENSIGN is escorting Shran around. On typical Trek we wouldn't blink, but Officers are rare these days. An Ensign under Reed's command would be fairly high-up in the chain of command in the security/armory department, no?
-Hey, anyone notice that if you took an Andorian ship and combined it with an Earth ship, it'd look like a lot of Federation ships? Ditto with the bridge - the Andorians have twin forward consoles, outward-facing standing consoles, and a vaguely circular layout. I doubt it's intentional, but the melding of Earth and Andorian engineering techniques seems to be in the cards. It doesn't hurt that Andorian technology (injectors, shields, etc.) seem to be easily meshed with Earth tech.
-Shran's command chair is a console chair from the old Defiant set with arms added.
-Shran falls into character as the mining guy really easily. Given his first appearance as a special-forces guy (or so I think, anyway), I guess infiltration would be a useful skill.
-I'm guessing they want to be able to destroy the planet outright so they can minimize the possibilty of survivors or counterattack. If the hints being dropped are true and the Temporal Cold War is a major factor here, I'd say that somewhere in the FUTURE humans are gonna do somethign that wrecks teh Xindi homeworld in the past. As such, they're being given the technology to wipe out humanity in the present, and prevent that person from being born. So, simply cutting the planet in half isn't enough.
-Hey, the Command Centre has a secondary door that goes somewhere else - I'd never noticed it before, since most of the shots of the set were from that wall. Actually, the director was trying a lot of neat angles for this episode... Look at the off-centre master shot of Degra's control room, for example.
-This is the first time we've seen live communication from outside the Expanse. Does Enterprise have live comms? I'd thought it was delayed at best.
-Was that stock footage of Enterprise fighting the two Reptilian ships from "Twilight"? If so, it'd be the first major re-use of footage like that since the Enterprise launch sequence in "The Expanse". Good thing it was from an alternate future.
-I figured all this time they were always going DEEPER into the Expanse. The seem to have backtracked somewhat, since it didn't take them that much time to get back to the distortion field. I wonder if someone in production is making a map...
Mark
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Archer did talk about sending the data back to Starfleet, so I guess we're supposed to assume there are still comms. But I seem to remember that this season's premiere told us that ENT would be 'on it's own'..
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I was talking about LIVE comms... We haven't seen them talking directly to Starfleet as Shran was to his superior, so it's probable it's just comm packets being sent back and forth.
Mark
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
The Andorians seem to have 'fast' subspace communications, though there are many trek references to messages taking weeks to get back to starfleet. Maybe the Enterprise can send signals OUT that can be picked-up with sensitive communication arrays on Earth, but can't receive much.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:-I figured all this time they were always going DEEPER into the Expanse. The seem to have backtracked somewhat, since it didn't take them that much time to get back to the distortion field. I wonder if someone in production is making a map...
As I understood it, the distortion field they were referring to was the one that wrecked the Enterprise at the beginning of this episode. That's all.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I also loved the shot of Archer in front of the viewscreen. It reminds me of "My Favorite Martian". "My Favorite Andorian"?
When Shran first came aboard the Enterprise and was walking around Archer's ready room, I noticed that his antennae ducked (bent backward) with about an inch to spare as he walked under the exposed beam. I know it's just a little thing, but I love it when they pay attention to stuff like that!
B.J.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote: Mark noted: Ditto with the bridge - the Andorians have twin forward consoles, outward-facing standing consoles, and a vaguely circular layout. I doubt it's intentional, but the melding of Earth and Andorian engineering techniques seems to be in the cards. It doesn't hurt that Andorian technology (injectors, shields, etc.) seem to be easily meshed with Earth tech.
Actually I noticed that this was the first time we see the dual console thing but I thought it might just be a flashy redress of another set... Is the Andorian bridge smaller than Enterprise's? Seems that way: kinda a Trek tradition to have the ship's babe feel to the left of the Captain.
Two odd things about this episode: No anomaly detection by Porthos the wonder dog, and Phlox aparantly feels "if you've seen one Andorian in skintight leather, you've seen em all..."
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Oh...I dont know....definitely in the sensor departments but if you consider Lt. Talas, said she "hasn't seen weaponry as primitive as Enterprise's since her tactical training days", that implies that Andorians were using simmular weapons during her training. Mabye 10-15 years prior to this episode, tops.
Or she was trained aboard an old ship equipped with primitive weaponry like the USS Republic or Gorch Fock.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or Andorians live a looong time and she's older than she looks.
Just a theory. Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well until we get hold of the latest copy of Mature Andorian Babes, we just won't know, will we? 8)
Just posted some pics from the ep in the Andorian Ships thread, BTW.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yah. Good shots too: We're seriously talking about making a Andorian starship model or three over at SSM. It's mostly a coffin with wings so it cant be too hard...
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Can you make a model of the Andorian babe though?
If Andorian women have blue boobs, do Andorian men have..... nevermind. Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
So, the xindi ship that looked identical to the shuttle we saw in an earlier episode, was it meant to be the same, or a large-scale version?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
"There's no place they aren't green. No place at all."
I gather the Andorians could have a subspace relay infrastructure in place, just outside the Expanse. Earth has nothing of the sort - whatever the Enterprise is sowing is usually being destroyed at the same rate.
And without ever seeing a single Andorian episode of ENT live, I'm deeply in love with these guys. And gals. This is becoming FUN!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Quick note on rewatch: Archer called Gralik an "Arboreal Xindi" rather than the production-established "Xindi Sloth". Makes more political sense, and brings all the names into a common continuum. Reptilian, Insectoid, Aquatic, Arboreal, Humanoid. The last one doesn't QUITE fit, I guess...
Mark
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Yup. Should be Mammalian or something.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think Gralik referred to himself as an "aboreal Xindi" as well when recounting his race's past wars.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
You forgot the avians... of course everyone forgets the pretty birdies that got waperized by nuqueor missiles.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Should be Mammalian or something."
Well, no, since the sloths are, presumably, mammals, too. Possibly the fish as well, for all we know.
I would think something based on the word "primate" would make the most sense, if "humanoid" must be avoided.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Does anyone else get the feeling the Xindi are from one of David Brin's "Uplift Wars" trilogies?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I would think something based on the word "primate" would make the most sense, if "humanoid" must be avoided.
In the "Friendly Sloth" episode, the humanoids *were* called 'primates' by the sloths.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist: Does anyone else get the feeling the Xindi are from one of David Brin's "Uplift Wars" trilogies?
Now that you mention it.. that would explain a lot. Archer keeps asking how six sentient species grew-up on the same planet. I wonder when we will see the ISLAND OF DOCTOR MOREAU episode.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
We saw that in reverse on TNG and that was more than enough, thank you.
Possibly the Xindi are descendants of a advanced race (the Sphere builders) that were dying off and changed their own genetic code into the various Xindi races to allow for the best chance of survival (genetic novelty being the ke to evolution) made as a physical deterrent to outside races interfereing with their evolution.
mabye.
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
Regarding 'safe-mode' of torpedoes: A) If the new torpedoes use antimatter warheads (as in the 23rd & 24th century), I'd assume the antimatter had not yet been injected. B) If the new torpedoes use fission/fusion warheads, then the fuses were deactivated/removed.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Anyway, Andorians seem interested only in honoring agreements that suit them, suggesting that they tend to agree to things first, but then have no problem casting it aside if it doesn't go their way. I've had friends like that. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)