Okay, New Angle. What if the viginette at the end of Season 3 was the beginnings of the Mirror Universe? The Mirror Universe background says that Earth lost the Earth-Romulan war and when Earth overthrew the Romulans, they became the Empire.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I would not like that angle.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
The time is right, for the split. With all those 'alternate time lines' flying around... maybe they flew into one. A change that drastic on Earth, might not affect the Xindi at all, which would explain the Xindi ship giving them a ride.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
And, somehow, how no one bothered to look for Jupiter Station, any other station, and any other ship in the area.
Mark
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Hoshi looked... nothing else was in the solar system.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Where did the Romulan War connection come from, I've never heard that one. I always assumed that the Mirror Universe came about earlier.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I thought one of the books linked the creation of the Mirror Universe to Khan becoming the uberBadass on Earth and staying in power.
I've never subscribed to the idea that there is any connection at all, temporally, between the Mirror Universe and our universe. If there was, there's no way we'd get any version at all of Spock or Kirk. There's just no way events would unfold so similarly to ours. Rather, the Mirror Universe is a completely seperate space time continuum where the fundamental nature of existance is altered, for lack of better terms, from an inclination towards good to an inclination towards bad. It's not that everything is dark and bleak and evil... but it all sort of leans that way.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I think it was a comic book, actually.. that detailed Earth's subjigation by Romulans.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Anyone read Shatner's second triology about Mirror Kirk? It was as over-the-top as his first one (where they blow away the Borg homeworld), but it fun to read. According to that book, Picard's time-travel in First Contact had something to do with the creation of the Mirror Universe.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Rather, the Mirror Universe is a completely seperate space time continuum where the fundamental nature of existance is altered, for lack of better terms, from an inclination towards good to an inclination towards bad. It's not that everything is dark and bleak and evil... but it all sort of leans that way.
Oh, then the Mirror Universe is our universe! And Trek, of course, is set in some alternate universe...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Exactly.
Posted by Capped in Mike (Member # 709) on :
In the Star Trek universe, G.W. Bush was hit by a truck driven by Khan and Henry Starling in 1990 and killed.
In the mirror universe, a time traveler pushed him out of the way, he became president in 2000, and crowned himself Emperor Dubya I when he was in danger of being voted out of office. The enslavement of the galaxy happened after this, he heard there were WMDs on Mars and is after the Martians who would use them on each other. The only oil fields he doesn't own by the 2020s are on the Halkan homeworld.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I always theorised that the evolution of the Tarran Empire stemmed from the failure of Gary Seven's mission on earth
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
We saw how Archer changed with the impending attack on Earth. Getting desperate and compromising his own ethics. Since the Mirror Universe had the same people, maybe the change happened in Kirk's own life time.
More likely, the Mirror Universe exists as a quantum possibility and certain conditions create it at the moment of the change.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Maybe people got nicer and the "Normal" Universe split off of the "Mirror" Universe
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
THE ANTIMATTER UNIVERSE! WHERE EVERYBODY SANE IS CRAZY AND EVERYBODY CRAZY IT SANE! AND I AM THEIR LEADER!
I digress...
In all seriousness...what happened to Earth in the Guardian Forever thing after Edith Keeler was saved? Didn't the Nazis win then or something?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, the Nazi's won in that timeline. But that lead to the absence of the Enterprise... or at least, the absence of thr Enterprise in orbit of the planet. I can't remember what the Guardian said, but it was something like, "Everything you knew is gone." Didn't sound like it lead to the creation of alternate version of Starfleet.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
No offense Woozle, but if anyone really, seriously thinks that it is the intention of Berman, Braga, and the rest of TPTB to show the birth of the mirror universe, then they have a hole in their heads big enough to fly the NX-01 through. I doubt they even remember the mirror universe (TOS's, not that bastardized version on DS9). They're having a hard time even trying to show the birth of the Federation, let alone the Terran empire. To paraphrase Trey Parker in BASEketball, if I had a nickel for every time someone over at the TrekBBS made a inane post about their "speculation" that the show takes place in the mirror universe, then, well, I'd have a shitload of nickels. The most pathetic one I read on the subject: Since Reed sported a goatee in "Twilight" that is definite proof that Enterprise takes place in the mirror universe Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
That evil Reed! I knew it all along!
Yeah, I don't expect anything to do with the Mirror Universe, but I like spouting theories all the same Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Sisko had a goatee. I guess DS9 was in the Mirror Universe, too. And in the episodes where they went to the Mirror Universe, that was actually the... Mirror Mirror Universe.
Posted by Neutrino 123 (Member # 1327) on :
Hmmm, I'd say Enterprise is in the normal universe, but the maybe just the Reed goatee episode is in the mirror universe.
Since there is time travel (this seems clear from the Nazis and P-51s), I don't think the writers would bring in the mirror universe. This would leave most viewers confused that don't have a good memory of episodes from other series.
That said, I'd like to see a mirror universe episode (just one or maybe a 2-parter, don't want to overdo it like in DS9) during the Earth-Romulan war. This could have lots of interesting possibilities.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Hmmm... Have there ever been Romulans in the mirror universe?
Posted by Defiantly Running About (Member # 1216) on :
I'll bet you it turns out to be something stupid, like, for instance, Berman and Braga just make something up on the fly during the writing of ep 4x01. Like, "Uhh...well...they're...being evaluated by an interdimensional being named.. .. Mekilum."
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I wanna see Chuck Yeagar escort the shuttle pod to a landing, and question them.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Even if the change was in Kirk's lifetime to create the mirror universe of TOS it isn't helpful to explain how that continued to parralel to our beloved timeline so that Sisko and the others [even Tuvok] exist in the Mirror universe. The circumstances that are necessary for them to be born are still required and it's much different from their changing personalities.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I say the mirror universe has always existed as long there was the normal universe. Both were created at the same time.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Well, if you want to get into it, there are likely several versions of the Mirror Universe aswell. Worf should have visited one in "Snow White-eyes and the Seven Worfs" but sadly, it was all more or less the Starfleet we know and love
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain Boh: Hmmm... Have there ever been Romulans in the mirror universe?
The only mention was in "Through the Looking Glass" where Sisko told MirrorJennifer that he was going to visit the Romulans to see if they would help their cause. It was a lie but they were mentioned.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Well then they still exsist.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
yes...
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I thought it possible we may have wiped them out
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I was capping "Zero Hour" last night and I re-watched the scene with Daniels: I think he's trying to be too clever for his own good. We still don't know who he actually works for, but one line was quite telling. He says that the Federation will still be formed, but not in the same way. That to me sounds like he's trying to make a few improvements as he goes along. Like getting the Andorians involved in the Federation from the start. . ?
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I wouldn't be suprised if at some point, Archer turns on him.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Maybe Archer turns INTO him
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Boh: Hmmm... Have there ever been Romulans in the mirror universe?
The only mention was in "Through the Looking Glass" where Sisko told MirrorJennifer that he was going to visit the Romulans to see if they would help their cause. It was a lie but they were mentioned.
That was the one with Mirror-Tuvok, right? I think he also mentioned them earlier in the episode.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: I wouldn't be suprised if at some point, Archer turns on him.
Exactly. I was thinking along the lines of the Vorlons in B5 - at which point will their respective agendas cease to coincide?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
My guess is that Daniels pulled Archer off the Xindi weapon before he was killed. For some reason, he couldn't take him to the future, probably because the future had been changed somehow, so he sent him to the past.
He probably sent Enterprise there too.
I don't know how the Vampire Nazi fits into things.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by machf:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Boh: Hmmm... Have there ever been Romulans in the mirror universe?
The only mention was in "Through the Looking Glass" where Sisko told MirrorJennifer that he was going to visit the Romulans to see if they would help their cause. It was a lie but they were mentioned.
That was the one with Mirror-Tuvok, right? I think he also mentioned them earlier in the episode.
Yes, MirrorTuvok was in that one. The only mention of the Romulans was in the end. I also checked the other Mirror-Eps and there was no mention of the Romulans in those either.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Assuming that the Romulans don't get along any better with the Klingons there, I'd say there's a good chance they went the way of the Terrans.
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