Ok! How many torpedo launchers dose the Defaint-class have? This is what the DS9 Technical Manual said. "Two torpedo launchers are embedded within the upper forward nacelle cowling" I'm not sure where this is. The MSD shows two aft and one fwd launcher in the nose of the ship. On the show, they fire from the targeting sensors, at lest thats what the technical manual said.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Onscreen, there are two forward launchers that fire from those "targeting sensors" nad the ship is supposed to also havetwo aft launchers (mentioned riefly in WOTW and elsewhere), so despite the off MSD, I'd say it has four.
Wes' MSD in DAC is much nicer anyway.
Posted by F.G. (Member # 968) on :
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Here's an aft torpedo that the Defiant fired against the Lakota.
Here's where it came from.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Exactly right for the first picture!
There should be two aft-facing in about the same positions: that pic of the Defiant firing on the Lakota does not make too much sense to me.
Posted by F.G. (Member # 968) on :
agreed. it looks like its coming from the belly of the beast
Posted by F.G. (Member # 968) on :
Additionally, i might suggest visiting the old MaximumDefiant website, it's pretty comprehensive in that crazed fanboy kind of way.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I believe the Defiant has also launched a probe from the same forward emplacement that the phasers are shown firing from just below the deflector. Not the first time a ship has fired phasers from a probe launcher.
Posted by Nim the Plentiful (Member # 205) on :
The torps are coming from those two slivers on its "shoulders".
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
To be precise, I belive the launchers above those targeting sensor blister thingies only fire Q-torps. IIRC Pho-torps have only ever been seen emerging from the aft/ventral area as shown above. Not counting the forward probe launcher on the nose, I don't remember if that was ever seen to launch a warhead.
In regards to the position of the "aft" launchers, is there a rule that says that pho-torps can't be drop launched? I mean the do have their own propultion do they not? Ok the lack of an EM rail does reduce their reletive velocity and effective range, but it's good enough for the kind of close quarters engagement that we've witnessed with the Lakota, Mirror Neg'Var and the huge Jem'Hadar Battleship.
On a side note, isn't that also where we saw the self-replicating mines being deployed from?
Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Not the first time a ship has fired phasers from a probe launcher.
this is best imagined said with grave seriousness..
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: In regards to the position of the "aft" launchers, is there a rule that says that pho-torps can't be drop launched?
The Centaur "drop laiunched" it's Q-Torp, so it's possible. I just figured the aft launchers were those two red dots at the ship's aft (though those could also be the impulse echaust).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I always assumed those were indeed Impulse engines, regardless of the MSD. That aft structure which the tech manual claims to be the location of the impulse engines looks much more like a set of docking umbilical and connection hard points.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
...or the aft launchers. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well, visual evidence to the contrary, but it's possible.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
My ball may not be firmly clamped between my legs here, but it seems to me that, given the essence of (post-TNG) Trek combat, drop-launching torpedoes would only really be an effective method of warhead delivery if the ship firing them was at very high impulse and its target nigh-stationary.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Not really: it's be just as effective to launch a torpedo in an attacking ship's general aproach vector (as the Centaur did) nad allow the torp's own guidence to home in on the enemy. The mag-rail thing is to give the torp the initial big thrust away from the ship so as long as it's fired in the enemy's general direction it should be fine.
Also recall that we never see onscreen the kind of extreme ranges (20,000km for the Phionex) that starships should engage each other in.
Posted by F.G. (Member # 968) on :
Well did the Centuar have aft-lauching capabilities?
I could see the drop-method if it only had forward facing launchers and they had to make them go backwards somehow...it is a kitbash ship afterall.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
But the pod thingy on the Centaur would have a clear line of fire aft and so could mount a proper torpedo launcher. IIRC the main reason it has geberally been presumed that it drop launched a torpedo was the lack of a clear line of fire forward. The VFX were indicative of a drop launch but by no means conclusive.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The Centaur still could've fired forward and more downward..... Meh. I say a torp can fly wherever it wants once launched: recall the Defiant's trick with the probes inside that gas giant?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think the issue is navigation; it's velocity.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure that Rick Sternbach has said (over on TrekBBS I think) that a pho-torp can propel itself without the aid of a magnetic rail. I'll do a search and see if I can confirm this.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sure it can: the rail is just the initial push: even at the rails extreme velocities of that first "push", a torpeo on guidence would lose that velocity quickly if it's making large trjectory corections to follow a target (like General Chang's KBOP).
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
A photon torpedo isn't likely to carry enough fuel to match the speeds and ranges of other starships if fired at slow speeds, is I think the point here.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Or, to go slightly Tim-al on this discussion, delta-V.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Err... don't torpedoes only have warp sustainer engines, only capable of sustaining a warp field, and not of actually generating one itself? Or has that already gone out of fashion?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Warp speeds aren't being discussed. Or at least I'm not discussing them.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I would think a torpedo's speed could be sustained (at or close to a starship's Full Impulse) even if not rail-launched if the torp used the warhead's antimatter to power it'd propulsion system: it's just make for a slightly weaker explosion.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well as I said before, we're dealing with rather close quarters combat here so points about a torpedo's range are somewhat irrelevant to the discussion. Obviously if a torp can propell itself over long distances at high speed then they wouldn't need a rail, the fact that they do use rails is a pretty good indication that they are necessary. However the torpedos we've seen manuvering must have some way of generating thrust and there's certain details on the casing prop itself which certainly look like thrusters.
So from this evidence it appears that the Defiant's aft launcers are apparantly adapted mine launchers. Hence the absence of any obvious torpedo tubes on the aft end of the model.
As a side note; it appears that TBTB were thinking about self propelled torpedoes during the pre-production phase of ST:FC. You may recal the concept art and /or story boards showing the abandoned sequence where they were to use some pop-out launcher to detroy the borg beacon. Ok it was a Q-torp and the sequence was abandoned but the idea was still there.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Borg. Beacon?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes. "Assimilate this" ring any bells?
I'm not quite sure what the point of this discussion is. We know torpedoes can change direction. Who says they don't shoot out from under the Defiant at a few degrees below "horizontal", and then alter course slightly to go essentially "straight back" from the ship?
Posted by SwSmith (Member # 1319) on :
Ok! What about the Defiant's standard phaser that we seen used in "paradise Lost" where is this located?
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Which one? The one which fires from the evidently-multipurpose doodad on the Swiss Army Deflector? Or the one which fired from area near the bridge?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Or how about the one which fired from the at last seen shuttle drop bay.
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