This is topic $$ Crazy Ivana Tenchle! ["Divergence" Spoilers] in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Yeah, good luck figuring THAT pun out.

Apparently, the Reeves-Stevenses have promised " a multiple-starship action sequence that's never been seen before, and that everyone's very excited to bring to the screen". Who knows how much fun it'll be, or how central to the arc it'll be. But we've been due a dual Earth starship scene for a while now; with the exception of the cool-fight-that-didn't-happen in "Twighlight" and the twin-ship stuff in "E2", I've been itching for this episode to happen to give us some more stuff happening than just Enterprise blasting away.

-So obviously, we'll be looking for tons more stuff on Columbia and her upgraded firepower, which will hopefully be graphically displayed here. Who knows though - we could be in for more clone-ship action.

-Likewise, some nicely coordinated battle footage would be nice. I'm not a great fan of G&J R-S's novels, but I do remember a fight scene where a Defiant-class ship cloaked, flew INTO the central cavity of a Romulan Warbird, then decloaked and pulled a Death Blossom maneuver. Will we see anything as creative?

-More of that new Klingon design, which the producers figured would be cooler than a new Romulan design. The Klingon fleet is more diverse now than ever, even in this time period.

-The resolution of the Klingon bump issues, which I'm guessing IS the species-wide introduction of modified human DNA to save everyone. Will we be told that this will have to continue until the strain of virus is eliminated, say in a hundred years or so? Or will we expect that they'll solve it themselves some time between TOS and its movies (with many smoother movie foreheads being an interm sort of solution) and we're just to accept as such?

-Spoiler images show Archer is part of the solution - bump city.

-More of T'pol's emerging meld abilities will be explored here, and not likely forgotten. We'll likely see more of the Matrix Loading Program scene, but how does this figure in to Vulcan telepathy?

-Then there's the Section 31 connection, still not firmly established. Reed apparently thought himself out of "your section" last week; this will likely figure in to taking it down (or so they think) by the end of this episode.

-Hey, so Marc Worden (the adult Alexander Rozhenko from DS9) plays the Klingon guy they caught last week. It's not likely to be a deliberate casting, nor will it be mentioned in dialogue, but we can probably tie him in to the House of Mogh lineage...

What will the fate of Columbia be? How will Trip weasel his way back on board Enterprise? How will REED weasel his way back on board Enterprise? All this and more, tonight!

Mark
 

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Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
Wow. That personnel transfer was actually pretty cool to watch. Yeah, there are the unanswered questions of how Columbia got to them so quickly, can match Enterprise's 5+ warp on fresh engines, and why Enterprise couldn't let the warp field collapse when the reactor is shut down, but this is easily one of the coolest ship sequences I've ever seen.

Some things to note about Enterprise's reactor: the control panel on the front of it can easily be detached and lifted away (which makes me wonder if it's always been attached to a crane or if this is a new thing). Has this been before? I haven't seen every episode of Enterprise, so I don't know off-hand. The reactor can be shut down by shorting out some circuits on the top of it.
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
It sucked that Columbia appeared to use same weapons systems as Enterprise despite Archer saying the contrary in "Home". It was also weird that the relationship between the two mon capitans was not explored here.
 

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Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
Aside from the beginning segment, Columbia was kind of a letdown in this episode. The battle sequence in orbit of the Klingon colony wasn't all that great. The action focused on Enterprise; all we saw of Columbia was her chasing off two of the Klingon ships. I'm trying hard to remember if we saw phase cannon beams on Columbia coming from the dorsal or ventral surface of the saucer. I'm kicking myself now for not paying better attention. In either case, Columbia lost all her weapons before Enterprise did. That was disappointing.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Solid episode - easily the best multi-parter this season after the Vulcan arc, IMO.

-I *know* I wasn't the only one having a bad Keanu Reeves flashback when Archer said that they'd explode if the ship went any slower than warp 5.

-REALLY COOL opening shot of Enterprise passing overhead directly at the camera, then Columbia following as we go INSIDE the ship. Anyone wanna look for screencaps of what we see in the intervening interiors? This episode is replete with handheld and zoom shots, BTW - like "Daedelus", except toned down somewhat.

-The transfer is done by merging the warp fields of the two ships and then moving within 50m of each other, belly to belly. It was insane, but pretty fun to watch. Critics will see this and wonder why Enterprise is flying so close to the top of an Akira-class starship.

-Wait, why didn't they just release the tether on the Columbia end? Even with some relative drag coefficient slipping through the field, it'd be better than losing the assembly on the Enterprise end. At the very least Trip could drag at the end of the tether until Reed could reel him in.

-We're not really aware of the passage of time between Columbia's launch and the Klingon virus attack. It's a stretch (mostly covered by the hope that you'd forget about the time factor in the intervening week), but not impossible to believe, especially given the still-ridiculous four day cruise to Qo'nos from the premiere.

-As Trip is doing the engine restart, where's Commander Kelby? He barely did anything last week, and here he's absent altogether, leaving T'Pol to push the buttons as Trip says so. Obviously this is the device to force those two back together, but she's hardly the most qualified. There are other engineers there too!

-The S31 guy is Harris, a former Starfleet security guy who "vanished" five years previous. When he talks to Archer, he references the Starfleet charter, Chapter 14, Section 31. So S31 predates the Federation... One wonders how they got their way into the modern charter.

-The Augment DNA gives Klingons a human level of emotional response and control. One wonders how this affects mixed-breed Klingons - we know K'ehlyr for example had rage problems. Alexander seemed okay but for the odd growth spurts and typical family dysfunction, no?

-Krell's approaching Klingon strike force recalls the days when the Enterprise-D habitually ran into a Vor'cha and a pair of BoPs. Reed labels all three as "battlecruisers", though.

-Why the hell did Archer go down alone, but to be the sole human around to get ridged? And what now, he's got parts of Vulcan AND Klingon floating around inside him, in one way or another?

-The battle isn't filmed especially dramatic, but was well done. Ah well - it'd have been cool if Columbia could come in, guns blazing. Ah well.

-Note that during combat, Hernandez goes to that pillar-mounted monitor to contact Archer. Finally, someone has the foresight to have a Captain-viewable viewer for communications. The only thing that's come close is Sisko going to a side consol to talk to Dukat while the Defiant was in combat, in "Way of the Warrior".

-As suggested, the Klingon ridges are gone thanks to the cure, and is a genetic condition that will be passed on to succeeding generations. Phlox suggests that in the future they might figure out a way to reverse the cosmetic parts of the changes. In the meantime, cosmetic surgery may become a growth industry in the Empire - this goes a long way in explaining why Klingons are pretty good at it a hundred years hence, why Darvin could convincingly look human a hundred years after THAT, and why Klingons really wouldn't want to have their foreheads be the subject of light conversation outside their walls. Well done.

-Archer jokingly says to Hernandez that ONE of them should be exploring - I guess they've noticed that Enterprise really hasn't been doing that this season, except for "Observer Effect" not too long ago.

-Hey - Trip STAYS on Columbia?! Th'hell? Who'll be around to fall prey to the Orion slave girls next episode?

Mark
 

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Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
-As Trip is doing the engine restart, where's Commander Kelby? He barely did anything last week, and here he's absent altogether, leaving T'Pol to push the buttons as Trip says so. Obviously this is the device to force those two back together, but she's hardly the most qualified. There are other engineers there too!

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quote:

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-The S31 guy is Harris, a former Starfleet security guy who "vanished" five years previous. When he talks to Archer, he references the Starfleet charter, Chapter 14, Section 31. So S31 predates the Federation... One wonders how they got their way into the modern charter.

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quote:

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-Why the hell did Archer go down alone, but to be the sole human around to get ridged? And what now, he's got parts of Vulcan AND Klingon floating around inside him, in one way or another?

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quote:

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-Hey - Trip STAYS on Columbia?! Th'hell? Who'll be around to fall prey to the Orion slave girls next episode?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
Yeah, good luck figuring THAT pun out.

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Let me guess... at some point during a battle sequence, one of the ships performs a 'Crazy Ivan', a la Red October? (No, I haven't watched the episode, but that was the first thing that came to my mind)
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Close enough. I was hoping for some sort of fun combat maneuvering between the two ships. We didn't really get it, though the belly rubbing of the two NX-class ships echoes how they can mask a signature by flying in formation - the very maneuver a Crazy Ivan was made to thwart. Speaking of which:

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Originally posted by Captain Boh:
I noticed Trip whore an Enterprise patch on both his uniform and EV suit. Silly silly costumes.

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They don't wear their regular uniforms under their spacesuits - Trip was probably just provided one in his size when he tranferred over, and no one bothered to change the patch. In "Affliction", Trip didn't think to do so until Hernandez reminded him.

As for the suit itself, while likely a wardrobe omission (they probably just grabbed the chest unit prop that said "Tucker" on it) it's been suggested that he simply took his own suit along with him and forgot to change that logo too. NASA used to custom-fit their space suits (they don't anymore for cost reasons, opting for a more modular design), and Trip certainly wore his an awful lot.

Mark
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Some beef I have with this episode and the previous one, neither of which I was particularly impressed by:

-- The cold start of the engines was way too easy. Anybody remember what a big deal it was in "The Naked Time" (TOS)? From Coto I would have expected more.

-- Where are Columbia's upgraded weapons?

-- Section 31 is not intimidating at all here.

-- I don't think they bothered to really think this Klingon thing all the way through, as evidenced by the choppy and vague dialogue concerning the nature of the virus and the results of the Augment experiments. I'm really not convinced it makes a whole lot of sense. There seem to be a lot of non sequiturs being espoused. (Why does the plague give Archer ridges?) Plus, I don't like how the Klingon-augments suddenly speak and talk like humans once transformed. (Antaak was better at the end, though.)

-- Like "The Aenar," general emphasis on cool VFX shots and "atmosphere" over story. Bleh.

Oh well, I'm still really looking forward to the "In a Mirror, Darkly" two-parter.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
-- The cold start of the engines was way too easy. Anybody remember what a big deal it was in "The Naked Time" (TOS)? From Coto I would have expected more.

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quote:

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So S31 predates the Federation... One wonders how they got their way into the modern charter.

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Possibly some blanket provision that all previous Earth institutions are continued.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
And truly, I *still* don't see how this solves the "continuity problems" (or rather what weren't really continuity problems until now) such as Sulu not noticing/being surprised by Kang's changed appearance between "Day of the Dove" (TOS) and "Flashback" (VGR) but Bashir, et. al. being so terribly shocked about the smooth-heads in "Trials and Tribble-ations" (DS9). The change *could* have been common knowledge, thus explaining Sulu's nonchalance...but then why wouldn't the DS9 folks (primarily Bashir, who really should if it were documented) know about it also?

I tell you, this mess should have been left alone!

And in respect to Section 31, Sloan always said they were "part of the original Starfleet charter."
 

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Okay. The engines were building up plasma, and the only way to releive the build-up was through high warp speeds. They had to purge the virus. To do that, they had to shut the computer down. If they slow down before shutting down the computer, boom. If they shut down the computer before slowing down, I don't know, their warp field destabilizes or something. So they need to keep expending plasma, without actually controlling their own warp field. Or something. It can be explained away, if you really really work at it.

And I don't believe they ever said they were injecting EVERYONE with the virus. At the end, they said tens of millions would have no cranial ridges and be ostracized. That implies that the majority STILL HAVE RIDGES. At least at this point. If they fail to contain the virus, it's possible they eventually have to administer the cure to everyone.

As for Archer getting ridges, remember, this virus was spreading mutations originally designed to create Klingon augments. Tell me, is the "accelerate someone's metabolism so they create more antibodies" thing a common plot? Because they did the exact same thing to Boone once in EFC.

Now I wonder if the Romulans come down with the same bug...
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
" Don't know how they're going to run it for 'Demons' and beyond, though."

Isn't "Demons" the penultimate episode, though? There's not much beyond to work with. Personally, I think it could be interesting if he wasn't back onboard at the end of the series.

I, of course, had to work right on through the syndicated airing of the show today.
 

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Posted by Grand Master General Futurama God (Member # 968) on :
 
I missed it too, so my question is: How did the Columbia catch up with the Enterprise? Was the 'C' that close behind at the end of last episode or is it that much faster? (From what I have read, 'C' helped 'E' drop out of "high" warp, correct?)
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
No explanation given. NX-01 was "Speed"-ing away at Warp 5.2 (and shaking apart). So presumably NX-02 can actually go to wf 5.2+ safely.

This was also one of those episodes that probably makes very little sense at all to the casual viewer (if there is still such a thing).
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
No kidding. They didn't even do a "last time on Star Trek: Enterprise" prologue for this one. And, not to harp on excessively but coming from the furthest opposite side of "casual viewer" as can be, I still got the feeling at far too many points that what I was watching made very little sense, if any at all.

I remembered the other tech gripe that I had, as well. Why the hell does everyone have shields except us? I liked the idea that it was a technology we got from the Andorians in the alliance, but the KLINGONS have them too? And Columbia still uses polarized hull plating?

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry:
No explanation given. NX-01 was "Speed"-ing away at Warp 5.2 (and shaking apart). So presumably NX-02 can actually go to wf 5.2+ safely.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
No kidding. They didn't even do a "last time on Star Trek: Enterprise" prologue for this one. -MMoM

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Well I got a 'previously on Star Trek: Enterprise' - it was narrated by T'Pol/Jolene Blalock.

OK - I'm not going to look TOO closely into the tech of this episode.

1. I did wonder why they just didn't blow the tether on the Columbia and then reel Trip in. Although it was an interesting sequence and I liked how the camera panned around to get the Enterprise view point.

2. I liked the high speed zoom in through the ship - I think it was on the Columbia.

3. I don't think ALL the Klingons ended up with the human DNA - the numbers mentioned were "millions". There were only a number of colonies affected - and Fleet Admiral Krell's ship - he was there to eradicate those colonies. (woo go Phlox!) So The only ones who have the alterations are going to be those people. There were most probably normal Klingons in TOS - we just saw 'humanised ones'.

4. I liked the Fleet Admiral's ship - I'm sure that is new!

5. I loved the shot with the Fleet Admiral's ship far below firing on the colony, shown against the planet - very nice.

I also thought while watching it about Archer - Human, Vulcan, Klingon - what next!?!

To SUM this episode up 9/10!!!!!!! These episodes are maintaining their VERY HIGH STANDARD! These episodes woop the arse out of 90% of Voyager episodes.

Loved it, loved it, loved it. Very well done.
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
As I understand it, Phlox's cure didn't actually stop the virus from spreading (it still reached "Stage 1", IIRC), but it did stop it from being deadly. The side effect is that all (or most?) Augment-effects are gone. But the 'smoothness'-part of the virus is still viral. Or then again, I could've missed some lines.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
But one could assume that if proper quarantine proceedures took place, then there would be normal Klingons still out there and the virus (stopped in stage 1) will remain in those infected areas.

Wasn't there some discrepency reguarding Klingons from Voyager or was it the Klingons from "The Emissary" [TNG] - they set out in TOS times... I guess they weren't 'infected' crews.
 

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Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
 
Both those episodes have discrepancies.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
But one could assume that if proper quarantine proceedures took place, then there would be normal Klingons still out there and the virus (stopped in stage 1) will remain in those infected areas.

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There's always the probability of uninfected Klingons out there. But for the survival of the species, it would make sense to innoculate as many people as possible... Plus, let's say the council got infected - how much pride would be lost if they ha to go ridgeless while everyone else stayed the same?

Hey, what about those Klingons Voyager ran into... Anyone remember when they left the Empire?

Mark
 

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Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
 
The Voyager Klingons left around 2390 or close to it I think.
 

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Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
 
Wow... They travelled back in time to meet up with Voyager.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
I presume he meant 2290.

I must have missed the prologue, which is odd because I recorded the whole thing. Oh well.

I still am not quite prepared to suspend my disbelief that EVERY SINGLE KLINGON we saw from 2266 to 2270 was smooth-headed, and NOT A SINGLE ONE after that.

OTOH, I suppose we can go with the old FASA notion that the High Council used the Klingon-augments to interact with humans along the border because they were better suited to it. General K'Vagh *did* seem to imply that this was their intended purpose all along.

This is one of those stories that could have worked well, but wasn't executed very effectively. Too many plot elements were not clearly defined and thus seemed to change throughout the course of the episodes. The reason for kidnapping Phlox (to cure a plague or create Klingon-augments?) and the nature of the Klingon ridges' transmutation (caused by the genetic tampering or a side effect of the virus?) are the two most prominent examples.
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:

I also thought while watching it about Archer - Human, Vulcan, Klingon - what next!?!

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4. I liked the Fleet Admiral's ship - I'm sure that is new!

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Actually, it's the D5 battlecruiser, which first showed up in Marauders as a dilithium freighter variant, and later in Judgement as my favorite Klingon ship of all time.
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
Hey sombody recreated the Enterprise/Columbia scene in the Star Trek Bridge Commander game.

click here
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Reminds me of that first season of Blackadder!

"Percy: Only this morning in the courtyard I saw a horse with two heads and two bodies!
Blackadder: Two horses standing next to each other?
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Manticore:

quote:

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4. I liked the Fleet Admiral's ship - I'm sure that is new!

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Actually, it's the D5 battlecruiser, which first showed up in Marauders as a dilithium freighter variant, and later in Judgement as my favorite Klingon ship of all time.

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