It's been my observations that starship development has radically changed in the last 40 years in trek. Going out of style is the traditional saucer/dorsal/secondary hull, and coming in is a more flowing, one piece type of starship. So, basically, what do you think the trend of starships will be??
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I say look to the Defiant in terms of being streamlined as much as possible, but a traditional saucer will be kept in most designs.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well the most 'recent' ship seen (Discounting the Enterprise J and any 'possible futures beyond Nemesis) is the Prometheus.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
And that sucks ass.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
At the very least, for the starships that retain saucer sections, the saucer sections are moving away from a circular shape. The Nebula, Galaxy, most of the Galaxy-based kitbashes, the Akira, and the Sovereign all have elliptical-shaped saucers. The Intrepid, Prometheus, Nova, Steamrunner, Sabre, and Norway all have triangular shaped saucers (or close-enough to triangular).
I also guess one could make the argument that interconnecting necks on starships is also on its way out. Aside from the Galaxy and a couple of the Galaxy-based kitbashes, the necks are gone. The Sovereign, Nebula, Nova, Prometheus, and Intrepid, while maintaining the saucer-engineering hull-nacelles configuration, lack the neck.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Actually it's interesting - both the 90 degree turned saucer (Voyager/Sovereign) and the 'more triangular' saucers are featured in those 'possible future designs' in the TNG Tech Manual. Maybe somthing could be inferred by combining various aspects of those ships.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Guido starships?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Well the most 'recent' ship seen (Discounting the Enterprise J and any 'possible futures beyond Nemesis) is the Prometheus.
I could have sworn the Nova came after the Prometheus, and was the last "new" design shown in the 24th century.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nope. All the Nova-class ships we've seen have registries lower than that of Voyager - they came before.
Mark
Posted by FuturamaGuy (Member # 968) on :
However, they were introduced on screen after the Prometheus..
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: And that sucks ass.
The final CGI version of it sucks ass. The actual design by Sternbach looks better.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Honestly, the future designs would probably end up looking like a cross between a Defiant and a Sabre class. Integrated nacelles, no 'necks' little to no secondary hull to speak of.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
I loved the Prometheus-class, I just would've wished the four nacelle pylons were jointed so that they could fold into two pairs, like on the closed S-foil X-wing.
I like the Sovereign/Nova/Prometheus family, I think they take the best traits from the Constitution- and Excelsior-class designs. I'm not sure we'll ever see any more progress in the 2390-2400 era...
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
It SEEMS that higher advanced ships get away from needing to be streamlined, having more functional designs.. like borg cubes, fer'instance.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:However, they were introduced on screen after the Prometheus...
Yes, that's what I meant.
Anyway, I don't think it's logical to base an assumption on future starship design solely on one ship. The Miranda, Oberth, and Excelsior were all developed at about the same time, relatively speaking, and none of them look alike. Same with the First Contact ships. Despite the registries, I'm guessing that the designers (the real ones, not the Starfleet ones) imagined that these were all brand-new designs, created around the same time as well. Yet none of the ships look like each other either.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim': I loved the Prometheus-class, I just would've wished the four nacelle pylons were jointed so that they could fold into two pairs, like on the closed S-foil X-wing.
Someone should paint the word "fanboy" on a baseball bat. Then beat you severely with it. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: It SEEMS that higher advanced ships get away from needing to be streamlined, having more functional designs.. like borg cubes, fer'instance.
Although we've seen an opposite trend with Federation starships...
Since the Galaxy we've seen a progress towards more a more 'pointed' trend in the long-axis direction with a flatter side-profile.
I would have liked the oval of the galaxy to be left in it's current orientation but made more 'severe' - pulled out at the sides rather than being turned 90 degrees and stretched, like we see with the Voyager and the Sovereign.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
One trend I might point out might be that the ships seem to be getting smaller while keeping the same degree of functionality. Within the Federation we haven't seen any designs that increase the manpower or volume of the ship above that of the Galaxy class. Personally, I think this corresponds well with a trend in today's navies, where miniturization and automation is reducing crew sizes in the larger ship classes.
I will agree with some of the other commenters that the designs seem "busier" than when Star Trek began. More nooks and crannies, appendages, and knobs every which way. Not terribly unlike designs of aircraft today with all the antennae and sensors protruding from their structure. Of course, there is always a continuing effort from one class of craft to another to integrate these into the hull. And then something else comes along that needs to peek out. So I would say to Andrew we might yet see the upper right hand Nova-class concept on page 178 of the TNG Technical Manual.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
Starfleet ships do tend to be getting smaller, the Nebula class Promethius and Belerophon were both replaced by a new small design and an Intrepid respectively. Likewise these ships don't seem to have families aboard and don't seem suited to flying the flag. The loss of the Yamoto, Odyssey, Farragut and Proxima probably resulted in the loss of over three thousand personel, a crew pool that could have staffed over twenty Intrepids. With the post war federation facing a manpower shortage (Vreenak) starfleet vessals will no doubt get smaller still.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Thats' not "replacment" in any sense other than the ship's name was carried by something smaller.
Those classes were not decomissioned.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The Bellerophon lead a Federation delegation to Romulus. Sounds like flying the flag to me.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
They weren't replaced your right as they were destroyed, but rather than fill their space with a larger older design they obviously chose to give the name to newer models, both of which are smaller and more compact than the previous ones. The Bellerophon was probably the best ship they could spare at the time, rather than pull a Galaxy from the front lines, and indeed probably because it had a bar!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm sure that's it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: The Bellerophon lead a Federation delegation to Romulus. Sounds like flying the flag to me.
Sounds like a ship with little use except for non-threatening diplomatic missions.
In wartime, it's wise to build many smaller ships rather than one large battleship- they could probably build three Intrepids in the time (and with far less materials) it takes to build one Nebula.
From a wartime POV, the Intrepid calss Beleraphon may have been given it's high-profile mission to mask the whereabouts of the (still existing) Nebula calss Beleraphon.
They did something like it in WWII after all.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I thought they chose the Bellerephon because of it's speed. The Intrepid was the fastest Starfleet design we ever knew off canonically, and it would probably have made more sense for a ship carrying VIPs to be able to outrun enemy forces than outfight them.
Either that, or they just wanted to use the sets.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
USIGN SETZ IZ A RAEL_WURLD EXXPLANSHUN!!1!1! WE CANT TALK AbUOT THAT!
I for one was thrilled to see the Intrepid class finally sow up in DS9. It was one of the state-of-the-art ships at the time, being newer and faster than the Galaxy Class. Certainly a good show of Starfleet's overwhelming coolness. Janeway said that the Intrepid Class wasn't classified technology, so this could also have been a way to prevent Romulans from, in any way, getting a scoop on any of Starfleet's powerhouses, like the Sovereign.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
I cant belive people actually think it is the writer's intention to give the flagship title to anything but the USS Enterprise
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well, technically any ship with a flag officer on is a flagship. So pretty much any ship could be a flagship.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I definitely think the Enterprise is still supposed to be the flagship of the fleet. There are certainly other ships more than capable of making a good show when needed. It's not like they ferried the delegation to Romulus in an Oberth or something.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I think the "D" was... but not the newer "E". What happens when the flagship is undergoing refit for months or when there Isn't an Enterprise in the fleet? I don't believe they built the "D" because the "C" was lost. I always thought there was some time between these two ships. Also, would you want your flagship to be behind the times, such as the "A" was?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Well, technically any ship with a flag officer on is a flagship. So pretty much any ship could be a flagship.
Admiral Ross commanded the invasion of Cardassia from a shuttlepod......hmmm.....
Probably not.
He's got a Prommie called the USS Cerebus in the DS9 books (for traveling at Ludicris Speed across the federation). Kinda akooky nmae for a ship but if war is hell, the guardian to hell should probably be a Fanboy-Tough(TM) ship.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: Also, would you want your flagship to be behind the times, such as the "A" was?
We don't have any proof that the A was "behind the times". Okay, it was probably not as 733t as the Excelsior, but if the majority of the fleet was Mirandas, then the A could probably kick a fair bit of bottom.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"1337".
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
I doubt the feds wanted the Romulans to feel in any way threatened by the ship they sent to the conferance and the Belerophon did indeed carry an understated almost nervous presence alongside the thirty plus warbirds guarding the planet. I think the Federation and the Romulans are having to scale down the size of their ships because for so long both powers were living in a buble, isolated from real concerns. Both had gone about their business for fifty-plus years with no real threats apparent, then out of the blue conflict after conflict, the Romulan Valdore class (although pretty crap) looks about a third the size of a D'deridex and about a tenth the mass! Likewise all the new federation designs are far smaller. The E is the only Enterprise in history that is smaller than the previous one, that says it all about the direction of starfleets shipbuilding.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Or, it says that they needed a new Enterprise and they figured they may as well make the new flagship the current state-of-the-art. Yes, the newest ships we've seen the Federation make are smaller than the Galaxy Class. But how do we know that hasnt always been the trend with the majority of the more rarely seen classes being smaller and the Galaxy being the vast exception.
Also, "having" to scale down and "being able" to scale down are not the same things at all. Increased automation, the ability to create heavier arsenals in smaller packages, etc. might allow the Federation to spend less resources on ship construction and manpower per ship. I don't think that anyone would argue that the E was less powerful than the D even though it was smaller. So one could aruge that it is a greater success, since it requires fewer personnel and less raw materials to construct while still accomplishing the same general mission type.
As for the Romulans not facing any concerns recently, it was stated fairly clearly at the end of season one that important matters had kept them away. Sounds fairly concerning.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I always hoped those "imporntant matters" involved some undisclosed Borg conflict on the other side of their empire.
Or possibly just a large scale conflict with some new power (I'll say the Hur'q because I'm a shameless fanboy cretin).
Or they were just full of shit and it takes ten years to build one Warbird.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe they were getting over their exposure (presumably) to the Klingon-borne Human-augment virus thingy that removed their brow-ridges from TOS--> beginning ~25 pre-Voyager's "Eye of the Needle".
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
Whatever these important matters where weren't important enough to remove the Romulan's arrogance on their first encounter with the Enterprise, they had a swagger that implied if it was a war they had been engaged in it was a fairly successfull one. "you imply we need permission (to cross the zone) we do not" Hardly fearfull of the back-lash a new war would bring, in marked contrast to Starfleet's willingness to destroy the phoenix following wolf 359. I always assumed it was a political situation, whatever it was started with the fallout from Tomed, possably a coup or a civil war...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Or, you know, maybe their orders were to show up and act intimidating? I mean, that's all you can say for sure.
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