Posting these ones early, since after this.. Well, it's all we'll have for a while. Bittersweet, it is. What are we looking for?
-More on Mars. IS it really colonized in this context? Would there be enough people there to make a difference?
-Some technobabble way to take out the verteron array. It's a pretty contrived weapon to begin with, being supposedly FTL *and* pretty powerful. What powers it? Why was it important to seize the one on Mars? It can't possibly be the only one in the solar system, can it?
-As such, more on the state of colonization in the solar system. What other ships are there around? Will they help? Doesnt' Starfleet have a bunch of ships around that can contribute besides Enterprise?
-The genetic funsies surrounding T'baby. It's fate is plot. It's origins are tech.
-The equipment of the Tera Prime people. Grungy cool outfits aside, do they really have the armament to stand up to Starfleet? They have phase weapons of some sort, so...
You have to log in to see 'em.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
username: bugmenot password: notmebug
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Site just shut down! waAAH!!!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Simon has destroyed sci-fi meshes.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Someone must have saved those images, though. . .
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Not the first pretty thing I've ruined, alas.
Perhaps there is some wizardry with Google's cache to be performed? But no, it is beyond my ability.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
Hmmm... try the Internet Archive .
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
Does anyone have any idea of what's going on there? I was only a casual visitor, but I'm going to miss it if it's not back up soon.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Were these pictures the ones you were trying to point to?
I believe in the forums, he was explaining that most or all of this was pre-built before the episode requirements hit.
Mark
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Woulda liked to have read it, but the site died...right after I downloaded the 3rd pic! talk about bad timing! I though someone was screwing around with me when I went to download the fourth pic. You shoulda seen me, "What? huh? Ah C'mon! Nuts." Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Site's back.
Mark
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
The array is not so big, after all. When the mining colony attaches itself to it, the array appeared to be at least as big, if not bigger than Paxton's private cylon basestar. But on the array, you can see a balcony and ladders, and if those small glowing spots on Orpheus' hull are supposed to be windows, it should be a lot bigger than the array.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Stupid episode.
OK, maybe not that stupid, but the Verteron Gun was stupid.
Think about it. Ignoring the astronomical range this thing has, it's a planet based weapon.
Planets rotate.
How threatening a weapon is it when half the Martian day it's pointed the opposite direction?
For that matter, Starfleet Command is a planet based target. How threatening of a concept is it when you have to wait 12 hours for Starfleet Command to rotate into view?
It's like the TOS BG Episode "Gun on Ice Planet Zero." Neat concept at first, until you realize that Adama should have simply ordered the fleet to fly past the OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET!
My satellite messed up for about 15 minutes due to a storm (actually, DISH has been messing up off and on for a month now...), so I may have missed a thing or two. Anway, did they ever explain WHY the T'Pol/Tripp baby was conceived in the first place?
I mean, what was the whole point on creating the baby? I don't see how it affected anything.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I don't think it was explained. It MIGHT have been specifically to lure Trip there, they seemed to need him to make the plan work like they wanted. But I don't think they actually said that.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yeah, I was wondering about the fact that the array was based on a planet, too. I suppose one mitigating factor would be that Mars rotates in just over 24 hours, and given the relatively slow speed of comets, it's no problem to time the shot right -- and even cover almost an entire half of the solar system (given the ridiculous FTL capabilities).
quote:Cylon: Scanners show several Colonial Vipers coming into range. Command Centurion Vulpa: Energize the gun. Activate targeting mechanism. Cylon: It is fortunate the enemy ships are approaching this moon on the same side as our gun is located. Vulpa: That was always the intention. We had to scour the universe for years to find a suitably non-rotating moon which is perpetually pointed in the direction of the incoming Colonial fleet. Cylon: I bow to your superior two-brained gold-plated intellect, sir. Vulpa: Good. Now lock onto the target before it swings behind us, imbecile.
But I noticed right off the bat an astronomical error (literally!): As the comet was approaching Mars, the planet was lit from the right half of the screen, but the tail was pointing towards the right as well. Anyone who knows anything about astrophysics knows that a comet's tail points away from the frikkin' star, not along the motion trail! *sigh*
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
All right, semantics time. Do we know for sure that this array is the only one of its kind in the Sol system - or, say, one fourth of the only array in the Sol system, consisting of four identical emplacements on Martian surface?
Anyway, I think a gun that points in the wrong direction for half a day is no less a deterrent than one that maintains around-the-clock vigil. Clearly, the deterrence value mainly depends on two points: can the attack be repelled, and can the weapon be wrestled from the hands of the enemy? Answer to #1 is an obvious "no": no shield can stop the beam, and even planetary rotation only provides a short respite. What is the answer to #2? How does Paxton intend to maintain control of the array against SWAT raids or outright bombardment?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
- Mars is in the process of being terraformed. There is no need for environmental suits outside ("in the low lands", at least), although thermal wear and oxygen masks are still necessary.
- It seems the Array's power-system is hooked into the powergrid of what is called 'Utopia colony', with a few thousand inhabitants.
- There is also a mention of a planetary sensor grid, that was built when Mars still had it's current atmosphere. As such, it's not completely bug-free in the terraformed atmosphere.
- It seems that Utopia colony is only a small colony, as there is also a mention of "the domed cities".
- In addition to the Sausalito Vulcan compound, the Vulcans also have consulates in Canberra and Berlin.
- We see what is probably the Andorian ambassador to Earth. He was an older Andorian, with a slight "Journey to Babel" accent. And he calls us Earthmen. It's better than pinkskins.
- The shuttlepods have an inertial dampening system.
- No MACOs taking part in the undercover mission, and the infiltrators were only armed with phase pistols. It seems they did not expect much resistance. I assume either Section 31 or Trip gave them that inside information.
- We get a birds eye view of the Starfleet Command structure in San Fransisco. Good for any of your San Fransisco mapping projects.
- This is the first time Reed sets foot on Mars. It's his 32nd planet he sets foot on, IIRC. Phlox has a record of 248 (again, IIRC).
- The shuttlepod flies over Carl Sagan Memorial Station, a small structure with Sojourner still standing next to it.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
- A mention of Admiral Gardner. Samuels ordered Hoshi to blow up the verteron array and she replied that she'd only take orders from her superior. Samuels gave the order to contact Gardner. I guess that means he could be the Chief Of Staff of Starfleet (or the replacement for Admiral Forrest - or both, since we never learned what exactly Forrest's job was, IIRC).
- Here's a shot of the memorial. Below the "Mars Historical Preservation Society" there's a quote by Sagan. But I wasn't able to read it (though, if you turn up the brightness, you can see that it is a quote.)
"Whatever the reason you're on Mars, I'm glad you're here and I wish I was with you."
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, I guess we have definite proof that it's in Marin County (quite possible that San Francisco expanded into Marin County, but current Califorina law states that a city cannot encompass more than one county... but we can say that the law changed or the county borders changed.)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Also, now the EM-33s are firing green pulses.
(FUCK. I knew something bad would happen to that little baby. Are they trying to panic me to death? I had to go check on Lula afterwards just to reassure myself. Bastards!)
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm more troubled by the fact that the Federation is apparently founded by the Mayor.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
-FINAL EFFECTIVE TIMESTAMP: JANUARY 22, 2155. Not counting "TATV" (which I won't, as I consider THIS to be the true series finale), Enterprise has been sailing for just shy of four years, having started her first mission on April 12, 2151.
-Doesn't Mars look great? The VFX guys doubtless watched a LOT of rover video and pictures in putting together the landscape.
-Samuels used a standard communicator. One wonders who uses cellphones anymore?
-Kelby's still there, AND he's a Commander again. Maybe his promotion to Columbia went through, but he was sticking around to annoy Trip in return.
-Perhaps Paxton did something to the verteron array to give it its Death Star like qualities? They said he tied his warp reactor into the array. Boosting it, plus perhaps doing some technical doomackers and reprogramming, could have made the array far more deadly than originally intended.
-This DOES suggest however that future system defence could be equally as effective. One wonders where stuff like this was when the Borg or Breen or whoever invaded. Phasers can't be extended that far? All planets had their atmospheres coated in anti-verteron polish?
-The purpose of the array is to deflect comets that have been set in motion (presumably from the Oort cloud) to crash into Mars' polar regions as part of the terraforming process. A single verteron array on Mars, say on the equator, would be enough to deflect slow-moving comets. Plus, Paxton gave all the aliens 24 hours - rotationally-speaking, Mars would be pointing nearly the same direction as it was when it fired on the Moon. It would be able to hit Earth. Being able to defend itself within its hemispehre, and holding UP colony hostage as a defence against indirect fire, he WAS within a position to threaten Earth for at least a few weeks. He was exaggerating about being able to hit anything in the system - the array may have had the range, but not the timing.
-I dunno if anyone's analyzed the patch yet, but a closeup while Trip's on the ground shows it to say "ORPHEUS MINING AUTHORITY - EST. 2096". There's a latin passage underneath that seems to read "Sine Que Non" or "Sine Que Mon". Anyone?
-The T'baby never had any special makeup. When seen with the ears, it was a digital addition. When T'pol is holding her, she's wearing a hat with tiny appliances built in under them. Still really cute, though.
-Some sections of the array caves and corridors, and the mining ship itself, were previously seen as the Jeffries corridors from the Defiant.
-They didn't take any MACOs as this was a minimal surgical strike - no need for the rifles either, as they wanted to disable or kill in close quarters, and the pistols are fine for that. Archer didn't HAVE to go in, but they needed a pilot, a weapons specialist and a medic minimum - and that's who they took.
-The shuttlepod nose gets wrecked up again. This time though, it's pretty clear it's paper mache. Oddly, it looks only crumpled, while the damage seemed to be thermal - no burning was evident in the effect work.
-Look at the mini com panels built into the table in the meeting hall. They're strikingly like the wall panels on the TOS Enterprise...
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Plus, Paxton gave all the aliens 24 hours - rotationally-speaking, Mars would be pointing nearly the same direction as it was when it fired on the Moon."
Now, here's a project for someone. Figure out whether the Utopia Planitia side of Mars and the San Francisco side of Earth would actually be facing each other.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well, given the angle of the moon and the sunlight angle on it in "Demons", Mars should've been where Earth was in the moonstrike shot (albeit much further away, of course). But, I went ahead and checked Celestia and it does appear that areas near the Sojourner landing site are within line-of-sight of San Fran from time to time.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Right, but, on that particular day...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Okay, I downloaded the program myself, and it looks like UP and SF would be close enough to facing each other. Assuming I was reading it right. I didn't try too hard.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
(...because you aren't enough of a dork. Shame on you.)
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Shouldn't they already know Human-Vulcan hybrids are possible? Or did they forget Lorian?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yes.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Perhaps they did in fact forget about that whole incident, it just took a while for the changes to the timeline to "ripple through," as seen in the TCW episodes. It would be funny if, say, three minutes after their discussion at the end of "E2" T'Pol and Archer suddenly couldn't remember what they'd been talking about.
-MMoM Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
But if they forgot, how did they ever bring the amazing power of flashing collums back to Starfleet?
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