I know it seems like an obvious answer, but I'm trying to find out if that is attested to on-screen.
Is the Grissom from ST II EVER called an Oberth class?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Not in Star Trek III, you wrong film-naming person.
However, perhaps you actually meant "is that call of starship ever called 'Oberth' on screen in any episode". And I think the answer is no. I also don't think that "Defiant-class" or "Miranda-class" were ever said out loud either.
As to the issue of whether those names are "canon" though, then while they may not have been said out loud, trying to argue any other name would be the most futile sort of argument since my quest to get Jeff to get a decent haircut. The staff called them that. All the official books call them that. We call them that. Those names are as canon as they're going to be without Sisko turning to the camera and saying "do you remember that ship that was blown up by Doc Brown in STIII, Dax? That was an Oberth class, that was."
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
EZRI: I didn't know we'd be getting another Defiant-class...
SISKO: That's what you get for missing staff meetings, old man.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There is also visual canon for the names Miranda and Sovereign etc. even though the names were never quite spoken out loud. The respective MSD graphics tend to feature the class names in rather bold and legible print!
The problem here is that Oberth ships have never had MSDs. Or, rather, they may have had Okudagrams featuring the class name, but these have never been in the form of large wall displays AFAIK. The central floor console MSD graphics might feature the class name, but the camera never dwells on those. (A quick trivia bit: the MSD of the Galaxy class is the central console informally known as "pool table", not the assorted wall displays...)
I believe the name Oberth might be visible in some ST6 background graphics, but there's nothing there to attach it to the visuals of Grissom-type ships.
Then there is the Tsiolkovski dedication plaque, but it is off focus in "The Naked Now" and I'm not sure it features the class name at all.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
An MSD of the Oberth is visible in TNG "Hero Worship".
And yet it doesn't CALL it an Oberth-class. Hmmm...
I'm suggesting that there is room to determine that the Grissom was of a different class of ship than the scaled-up versions in the 24th century.
The VERY low registry number of the Grissom backs me up on that. I suggest that the Grissom was a refit of a refit that goes back almost to the beginning of the Federation.
I'll be posting artwork to explain my logic soon.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I'm suggesting that there is room to determine that the Grissom was of a different class of ship than the scaled-up versions in the 24th century.
Yes, but you're going under the assumption that "scale" actually means something to anyone related to the production of the show. It doesn't. That's why we have both teeny-tiny and gigantic BOP's that incredibly look the same no matter the size.
(Don't get me wrong - I think I understand where you're coming from with your argument. I just don't think there's really an issue here)
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Well, it when I'm thinking about redesigning a 300 meter + length Oberth, and making it more like the Enterprise C.
Just for fun.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
To clarify, that "MSD" is not actually from the Vico, whose display screens were all broken. It's a diagram displayed on a wall monitor in the engine room of the Enterprise...
The dedication plaque seems to establish the class name Oberth in visual canon, though. Provided that we get enough focus in "The Naked Now". (Do we? All I have is a VHS tape that isn't sharp enough to differentiate between Data and Riker...)
As for how big the Oberth is, well, having 80 scientists aboard a 120 m ship would be a perfect explanation to why the infection spread that fast across the Tsiolkovski but took its time aboard the E-D.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irishman: Well, it when I'm thinking about redesigning a 300 meter + length Oberth, and making it more like the Enterprise C.
Just for fun.
I've got a bunch of Ambassador model parts lyng around, so if you design it, I will build a model of it. (I need a break from my DS9 model. Romulan designs, and placing 170 models into one giant fleet display)
Lets see some concepts!
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: EZRI: I didn't know we'd be getting another Defiant-class...
SISKO: That's what you get for missing staff meetings, old man.
Mark
Also, Nog mentions it in The Valiant when Jake first thinks the Defiant is coming t their rescue.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Are you sure? The thing I remember about watching that episode is that they'd finally say "Defiant-class" on screen, and being mildly nerd-frustrated that they never do. I'll accept the other quote though.
Anyway, as to wanting to make a more modern Oberth class with Enterprise-C elements, then knock yourself out. I've just always thought that there are easier ways to explain the Grissom's low reg than changing the ship so that it looks different to what we thought it looked like.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Well, reasons that I chose the E-C period:
1. We haven't seen that much from it, so there's room for me to take more artistic license.
2. It would then have been in service sufficiently long enough to be out there in the far reaches of space for the E-D to encounter later so many of them later.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I remember the dialog from "The Valiant" along the lines of:
JAKE: Another ship is approaching! It's the Defiant!
NOG: What!?
a beat
NOG: That's not the Defiant. It's registry is NCC-74210. It's the Valiant.
JAKE: Valiant? Good name for a ship. (and I do believe Jake's line continues after this)
I don't think there was ever mention of "Defiant class" in the episode.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irishman: Well, reasons that I chose the E-C period:
1. We haven't seen that much from it, so there's room for me to take more artistic license.
2. It would then have been in service sufficiently long enough to be out there in the far reaches of space for the E-D to encounter later so many of them later.
Good ideas. Someone already tried an Oberth update that shows promise (though not in your criteria).
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dat: I remember the dialog from "The Valiant" along the lines of:
JAKE: Another ship is approaching! It's the Defiant!
NOG: What!?
a beat
NOG: That's not the Defiant. It's registry is NCC-74210. It's the Valiant.
JAKE: Valiant? Good name for a ship. (and I do believe Jake's line continues after this)
I don't think there was ever mention of "Defiant class" in the episode.
That's correct. The one and only time "Defiant-class" was mentioned in dialogue was in "The Dogs of War", mostly to shut us fans up following four years of dumb "Defiant or Valiant class" debate. Of course, they replaced it with years of dumb "why did they change the number when they renamed the ship?" debate.
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I like the episode where they say the Defiant is 170 meters long and NOT 120 meters long.
it happened in my mind: and all the women were nekked....and double jointed.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: it happened in my mind: and all the women were nekked....and double jointed.
And triple-breasted? Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Double-jointed and triple-breasted??? What the hell is wrong with you guys???
-MMoM Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Double-jointed and triple-breasted??? What the hell is wrong with you guys???
-MMoM
do ask him if his memory blip includes ass hats, the SDF-1 Macross making a cameo and that Nog had pink hair... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Double-jointed and triple-breasted??? What the hell is wrong with you guys???
-MMoM
And their jaws could dislocate like a snakes...
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
...back on topic, there's the USS Oberth, NCC-602, with a number sufficiently close to the Grissom to suggest the Grissom is intended to be an Oberth-class vessel. The USS Grissom is from the Trek VI screen readouts. Bjo Trimble's book Concordance gives us those screen goodies.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
...Then again, the list is not illustrated. And mere registry proximity isn't much of a guide, when e.g. one inspects that same list for 1800-range vessels and tries to tell the Mirandas apart from the Constitutions.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mirandas have that pod-thingie and Constitutions have that blue glowy part.
Dont laugh- it's more useful inormation than anything in the Starship Spotter.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I wouldn't put so much more credence in dialogue than in visual evidence. The mere fact that there is a prototype ship Defiant NX-74205 of a previously unseen design whose production was continued with NCC ships that look just like the Defiant clearly indicates that there is indeed a Defiant class. This evidence is just as good as an occasional mention of "Defiant class" by a crew member who knows only the Defiant and may not be aware of the (unlikely) fact that the class was officially named for a later ship closer to the series version.
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