I was wondering if anyone could recommend a fan-fiction source that describes the Tzenkethi race, the name of their territory, and the dates the war or wars took place with the Federation. Did they happen before or after the Cardassian War? I know that references were made in a couple of "Deep Space Nine" episodes featuring Robert Foxworth as Admiral Leyton that Benjamin Sisko served aboard the U.S.S. Okinawa as a Lt. Commander during the war(s). The "Star Trek Encyclopedia" refers to a Tzenkethi war (singular), while Startrek.com states that there were wars (plural) with the Tzenkethi. Looking at Geoffrey Mandel's Star Charts book the name of their territory is called the Tzenkethi Coalition, I don't know enough about this race to know if this is a good or bad name for their territory. I am assuming that there is little or no canon information out there based on what I have seen and found so far.
I am interested in this information because I am toying with the idea of writing some fan fiction that happens a couple of years after the events of "Deep Space Nine" or a decade or two after. I am thinking about a new starship and crew that is on an exploratory mission deeper into the Alpha Quadrant charting territory that has not been explored by any Federation starship, past the western border of the Cardassian Union as shown in "Star Charts." A true where no one has gone before. I really haven't gotten far beyond the brainstorming stage yet. Probably the only crossover characters I will incorporate are Admiral William Ross and Fleet Admiral Alynna Nechayev, I don't really want to bring in Deep Space Nine or any of the characters who remained on the station after "What You Leave Behind," except maybe as a replenishment stop on the way somewhere in the Alpha Quadrant, or any other Trek Universe characters. Nor do I want to bring in any Beta Quadrant races or characters, except if they are onboard the ship when it leaves on its mission.
In this story, I am thinking about having the Cardassian Union break apart into smaller territories that are autonomous from any control or administration from Cardassia Prime. The best real-world analogy that I can think of is the territorial changes that occurred when the Soviet Union broke up into the Russian Federation and other entities. I don't know yet if I want to make Cardassia Prime a protectorate of the United Federation of Planets, a full member, or have the territory of the former Cardassian Union annexed, absorbed, or admitted to the UFP. I also haven't concluded whether I want to have other powers have designs on Cardassian territory, such as the Breen annexing or seizing some Cardassian territory by force. I am pretty sure that I want to have Bajor already admitted as a full member of the United Federation of Planets.
I would like the Tzenkethi to appear once in a while as an adversary race and in the hopes of some consistency, I didn't want to reinvent the wheel if good information has already been written about this race.
The real point of all this research is that I want to make a credible back story that explains why and how the Federation has entered space beyond the western border of the Cardassian Union. Because I don't want to repeat Voyager, I also want to have several starships in this space and have Starfleet in the process of establishing star bases and other support infrastructure to support these mission deeper into the Alpha Quadrant. I want to sort of resurrect the feeling the classic "Star Trek" and create something that "Enterprise" should have been. I want some real first contact and hazardous exploration missions going on and have some sacrifice made by the characters that I create.
Any help, input, or contributions to these ideas would be greatly appreciated. I must apologize if this sounds like a ramble, because I am just sounding off a few brainstorming ideas. Probably most of these ideas will fall apart under closer examination and scrutiny.
As this is my first post, let me know if I am putting this thread in the right place or if this topic should have been posted at all on this forum. I got my fire-retardant suit on so feel free to flame away.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
AFAIK, the Tzenkethi were just some random aliens that the Federation happened to have a past conflict with, like the Talarians. According to "The Adversary" (I think that was the episode's name), they were ruled by an autarch, and a later episode implied that Garak had been to their planet for some reason, possibly related to the Federation/Cardassian war. But other that what you've said, that's about it.
Oh, there was also a rumor going around that they were originally supposed to be referred to as the Kzinti, a race from TAS, but possibly for legal reasons it didn't turn out that way. I don't know the source of this rumor or if it is even valid.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Group em' in there with the Hadara as aliens we'd like to see on Enterprise instead of the "alien species o' the week". Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Thanks for the responses.
The Tzenkethi are orange-furred space-travelling tigers with pink, naked, rat-like tails. Oh my!
The Kilrathi from the "Wing Commander" franchise and the Aslan race from the "Traveller" role playing game immediately came to my mind Dukhat when you mentioned a possible connection between the Tzenkethi and the Kzinti. As does "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" for some strange reason.
If they ever did appear on "Enterprise," probably Chris Roberts would be able to give them a good deal on props and costumes.
Thankfully, Starfleet Battles mentions the Kzinti Hegemony, and if I remember the "Star Charts" book correctly, placed their territory in the Beta Quadrant, so I am free to come up with a different concept for this race of aliens. Not that a race of eight-feet tall intelligent cats is necessarily a bad idea, its just one that has been overused. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I think it's just that the Kzinti and the Tzenkethi have similar sounding names that they were associated (unless it WAS true that they were going to be the Kzin.)
Tzenkethi might be another 'alternate' name for the Kzinti... like Bajorans/Bajora Humans/Earthers, Vulcans/Vulcanians, Tamarians/Children of Tama.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: Not that a race of eight-feet tall intelligent cats is necessarily a bad idea, its just one that has been overused.
Andit's a bad idea.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Cringeworthy, even. Also: Jarada.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
OK, here's the long and the short of it, as I understand the story:
Felinoids in general, and the Kzinti in particular, have been favorites of the production crew of Trek for a LONG time. The idea of reintroducing them into Trek has been floating around the "backstage" at least as far back as ST V. The idea keeps getting shot down because: 1. it would theoretically "canonize" a TAS episode. 2. it would mean that Paramount would have to pay royalties to Larry Niven again for use of the Kzin. (This is the SAME reason that Robert Duncan MacNeil's character in Voyager was given a new name and slightly altered history. Originally he was supposed to be Nick Lacarno.)
Undeterred, the production team has found ways to give backwards/sideways references to the Kzinti in a number of Trek venues. The feliniod "exotic dancer" on Nimbus III that Kirk fought was unofficially dubbed a "kzinretti", for example. The Tzenkethi are another of those, as is the reference to "The Patriarchy" in the recent "Star Trek Star Charts" book.
I for one would think it would be cool to use them straight up as Kzinti in Trek, but I don't see that happening any time soon, to be honest.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
That's the story that I keep hearing too, d_d1. In fact, that subject came up not too long ago over at TrekBBS and the whole reasoning you just gave came up. I think I first heard that a couple years back at a Trek Con in either El Paso, TX or Phoenix, AZ. I forget which for sure.
Anyhow, it had more to do with Niven's publishers of his books fighting with Paramount over royalty rights. Story goes that Larry Niven and Gene Roddenberry were good friends and that Niven had written up some contract wherein he would get paid some ridiculously small amount of money for turning over the rights for the Kzinti to appear in Trek - any Trek show for x number of years. However, it's never quite as simple as it could, would or should be, is it...?
Now that I think of it, you post there, too, don't you...?
Well, there you go, anyways.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
And it's a bad idea.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Yeah, I think we got that you think it's a bad idea The First Time!
Yeesh! Some people's children....
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Darkwing Duck:
Thanks for the enlightening response. I did not know what race the multi-breasted "cat woman" was in Trek V. I was thinking that she was a Catain, er Regulan.
Your comments about Paramount not wanting to pay Larry Niven for the use of the Kzin again may also explain why the TAS is not part of the Star Trek canon. I don't think that the story about an aide of Gene Roddenberry thinking it was a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon, and should not be included, held much weight. Especially since it has been written that Gene Roddenberry felt that TAS was a great way to generate interest n bringing back the live-action Trek to television and the high quality of some of the stories told.
Probably some unknown dispute regarding money.
I am assuming from your mention of the Nick Locarno character that there was a similar problem with using this character's name in future Star Trek productions. It seemed pretty obvious to me watching the first episode of "Voyager" that Robert Duncan McNeill was playing the Nick Locarno character who for some odd reason was named Tom Paris. The names in this teleplay have been changed to protect the guilty.
Thanks again for your response.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Couldnt this go to General Trek?
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: That's the story that I keep hearing too, d_d1. In fact, that subject came up not too long ago over at TrekBBS and the whole reasoning you just gave came up. I think I first heard that a couple years back at a Trek Con in either El Paso, TX or Phoenix, AZ. I forget which for sure.
Anyhow, it had more to do with Niven's publishers of his books fighting with Paramount over royalty rights. Story goes that Larry Niven and Gene Roddenberry were good friends and that Niven had written up some contract wherein he would get paid some ridiculously small amount of money for turning over the rights for the Kzinti to appear in Trek - any Trek show for x number of years. However, it's never quite as simple as it could, would or should be, is it...?
Now that I think of it, you post there, too, don't you...?
Well, there you go, anyways.
Yeah, I post over there too, but I didn't know about the publisher being involved or the alleged contract though... Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
just because its the popular consesus among fans, i would leave the Tzenkethi as related to the Kzinti: that is felinoid, once waged war with the Federation (or Terrans, depending on chronology issues) in the 22nd century and are now kept docile by forcible disarmament.. many other sources have used the explanation of a shattered kingdom to explain the Kzinti dismemberment/renaming.. that is, now that the former Kzin political entity is gone, they have new names, the K'zin, the M'dok, the Tzenketh, the Lyrans (or was it Hydrans?) or what have you.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:there was also a rumor going around that they were originally supposed to be referred to as the Kzinti, a race from TAS, but possibly for legal reasons it didn't turn out that way. I don't know the source of this rumor or if it is even valid.
Well, as "Tzenkethi" is almost an anagram of "The Kzinti", I think that rumour is true.
quote:I for one would think it would be cool to use them straight up as Kzinti in Trek
At least their homeplanet Kzin was used on the starmap in TNG Conspiracy.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I like the feline diaspora idea quite a bit. Still, it would be a shame to waste an unseen species on a known physical appearance, if you get my drift. The Tzenkethi could be birdlike. Or a race of spacegoing serpents. Or Pigs in Space. Or slithering spatial jellyfish with flagellae that crackle with electricity. Or Brains in a Jar.
It would be equally disappointing to learn that the Tzenkethi are bumpy forehead people, though.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
My image of the Tzenkethi has always been kind of like a cross between Cardassians and Kazon, with the simpler dressing and rustic culture of the Ba'ku and a very good and sophisticated navy tech level.
Their main "weakness" has been that they've been relatively small-scale, instead of a big fleet of average ships they've got a medium patrol flotilla of outstanding, sleek monitors. Lethally effective in skirmishes but vulnerable during big fleet bombardments.
I imagine they're slightly xenophobic but in the Hobbit fashion, "Trade with outsiders but don't invite them for tea". Not the romulan "If you're not with us you're against us! Romula Invictuuuus!! Alea Jacta Est, m*therfucker!!!" way.
Oh and the women are raving nymphos.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: My image of the Tzenkethi has always been kind of like a cross between Cardassians and Kazon, with the simpler dressing and rustic culture of the Ba'ku and a very good and sophisticated navy tech level.
Hehe...Kazon...they always reminded me of Klingons who wore their hair in their equivelent of Afros... Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Heh... The crazy thing is that it's basically true!
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Their hair looked very much like dreadlocks to me. Rastafarian Klingons in the Delta Quadrant?
"Hey mon! Let's git the Voyager." Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Insectoid aliens!
(P.S. Please please please!)
(P.P.S. Please don't fill the ship with billions of wierd aliens with even wierder names like most novels seem to do.)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Kazon were always sorry-ass aliens. Their final coffin nail showed them to have no technology of their own and having had stolen it from the (almost) equally lame-ass Trabe. Voyager definitely improved after those losers were outta the picture.
I second the idea of Insectoid aliens (Jarada please!) or mabye finally seeing the Shelliak....
That idea od sentient Jelyfish like creatures would be the best though: there's no need for all the aliens to be biped humanoids with minor cosmetic changes anymore with today's CGI effects.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: Originally he was supposed to be Nick Lacarno.)
You sure about that? Because most "origin of Voyager" tales usually say that the casting powers that be liked MacNeil, but didn't want him to be Locarno again.
quote: or mabye finally seeing the Shelliak....
Again?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
What do ya mean "again"? We saw a bulgy figure i robes with an odd head or helmet in an poorly lit bridge od a re-used starship model. Not exactly a memorable appearance to be sure.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's a pretty clear shot as far as I'm concerned. I suppose you could think that it was wearing robes, or a helmet, but my impression was that it was just a big lumpy alien. Not much to see.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: You sure about that? Because most "origin of Voyager" tales usually say that the casting powers that be liked MacNeil, but didn't want him to be Locarno again.
That doesn't make any sense. Paris and Locarno are virtually identical characters, the only difference being that Tom killed two Officers while Nick "only" killed one Cadet. That and Tom developed a chip on his shoulder and fell in with a bad crowd...which may or may not have happened to Locarno, we simply don't know.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So Nick "only" killed one Cadet and was drummed out of Starfleet, never to be heard from again while Tom killed two and became a Leutenant on a famous starship with a bueatiful wife and a future career as a famous writer....
So much for Karma.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe the Sheliak use the First Federation trick - and that lumpy thing is a decoy/doll?
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: just because its the popular consesus among fans, i would leave the Tzenkethi as related to the Kzinti: that is felinoid, once waged war with the Federation (or Terrans, depending on chronology issues) in the 22nd century and are now kept docile by forcible disarmament.. many other sources have used the explanation of a shattered kingdom to explain the Kzinti dismemberment/renaming.. that is, now that the former Kzin political entity is gone, they have new names, the K'zin, the M'dok, the Tzenketh, the Lyrans (or was it Hydrans?) or what have you.
The Lyrans and Hydrans were BOTH distinct races from the Kzinti, though I believe both were felinoid (I KNOW the Lyrans were).
The Kzinti appeared AS Kzinti in SFB until very recently, when they were renamed the Mirak, probably because of the royalty issue.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:there was also a rumor going around that they were originally supposed to be referred to as the Kzinti, a race from TAS, but possibly for legal reasons it didn't turn out that way. I don't know the source of this rumor or if it is even valid.
Well, as "Tzenkethi" is almost an anagram of "The Kzinti", I think that rumour is true.
quote:I for one would think it would be cool to use them straight up as Kzinti in Trek
At least their homeplanet Kzin was used on the starmap in TNG Conspiracy.
True, though only those lucky enough to chance across a copy of the map online know that Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System:
quote: Originally he was supposed to be Nick Lacarno.)
You sure about that? Because most "origin of Voyager" tales usually say that the casting powers that be liked MacNeil, but didn't want him to be Locarno again.
Yeah, and royalties is WHY they didn't want him to be Locarno again. Even MacNeil has said that the character was supposed to be the same one.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That simply doesn't make any sense. Sure, it could be true, but it doesn't make any sense. You don't own what you write when you write for a TV show. Your powerful overlords do. If this were true, you could never do an episode refering to a previous one without cutting an extra check. Does Maurice Hurley get extra residuals everytime "Regeneration" is shown? I very much doubt it. If "The First Duty" can't be refered to, then half the Klingon backstory (written largely by Ron Moore as well) is out.
So, while it's certainly possible that there was some sort of special contract for "The First Duty," or TNG had some unique practices at the time, it seems to me that that episode, like every other except Niven's, was more likely simple work-for-hire.
(Come to think of it, another recurring character created by Maurice Hurley, and oddly enough too, considering the season in which she appeared, was Leah Brahms.)
But now I am all curious. So perhaps some web-mining will turn something up.
quote:Did you get the role of Tom Paris based solely upon your performance as Nick Locarno in "The First Duty"?
As a matter of fact, the producers flat-out said to me that they created Tom Paris based on Nick Locarno in a lot of ways. But I think they were inspired to have that sort of character -- a rogue, very independent, kind of adventurous pilot.
Which is the only thing on the web that I can find relating to the subject.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
I don't claim to know all the legal whys and wherefores about the situation, all I know is what has been said by several different people in different places who were close to the production at the time.
I also just enough to know that contracts other than "all rights" ones generally provide for payments when a contracted property is used in other settings within the scope of the contract. (Again, I don't know all the technical legalese behind this, I'm just trying to get the concept across).
In short, Niven gets paid if Kzinti show up in Trek, and the creators of Locarno would get paid if he showed up in Voyager (or any other Trek).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
So the Gene Roddenberry estate got paid when Riker showed up in Voyager?
What I heard reguarding the Paris/Lucarno thing was that they "wanted a Nick Lucarno type character" "who played him?" "Robert Duncan McNeil" - they auditioned people and then just went "why don't we just get Rober Duncan McNeil?" - pretty sloppy if you ask me.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Larry Niven gets treated a bit differently than Joe Screenwriter.
Again, it's not impossible that TNG was running under something different than the work for hire system, but that would surprise me.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: So the Gene Roddenberry estate got paid when Riker showed up in Voyager?
Exactly! Or like when Q has shown up on both DS9 and VOY?
The thing w/Larry Niven and the Kzinti is a completely different animal, tho. I've never read his works w/the Kzinti in it, but my understanding is that he had published them as a race before Star Trek came out. His Kzinit had nothing to do with Star Trek or Paramount/Viacom, being a completely independent work from same. Larry Niven worked out some sort of "Handshake" deal w/GR to show them in TAS, tho I don't know the details. However, no paperwork was apparently signed or it was a "one time good deal" arrangement - something along those lines.
Anyhow, they can't appear as a named species in Trek because of something to do w/Niven's publishers and their army of lawyers w/o Paramount/Viacom handing over a large check, even tho Niven would be delighted for their appearance to occur. While Q - and presumably Nick Locarno - would be trademarked to Paramount/Viacom, the Kzinti were never their property to begin with.
Anyhow, I'm confused by how the Locarno character would have cost Paramount more money. You'd think that if there was some sort of copyright involved, that McNeil wouldn't be able to play a character almost exactly like him.
No, I'm inclined to believe that they didn't want to recreate the character of Locarno since I seem to recall he was kicked out of StarFleet Academy. Would have been a very convoluted backstory on how he got back in, only to be punted again for doing more Bad Stuff and then was needed to get into the Bad Lands....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The morals so far:
Writers good. Lawyers bad.
The Kzin are not going to be shown on Trek. (not officially anyway)
Nick Locerno is not Tom Paris. (although he probably wishes he was)
Giant sentient cat-men in pink jumpsuits are a bad idea. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I think "TTzenkethi" are the closest were going to get them to say "The Kzinti"
T H E K Z I N T I
T H E K Z I N T e
one letter missing in the anagram - I think that's a pretty good match.
And as I said the Kzin might have various names like Humans/Terrans/Earthers, Vulcans/Vulcanians/Pointed-eared, green-blooded, son-of-bitches Bajora/Bajorans/(Bajarans as Picard says at one point in "Ensign Ro" , Tamarians/Children of Tama,
ALSO we know that the DS9 people have put a few TAS references through the series...
Kor's D5, Berengaria mentioned by Kai Winn, The Shir'Kar SP?
There are probably others - but I haven't seen much TAS.
ALSO they did two episodes which did things that Gene considered too... far out to make TAS canon...
1. Shrinking people... see "One Little Ship" 2. I've actually forgotten what this one was! I have mentioned it here before - or maybe a TAS expert knows what it was. Maybe it was a Voyager episode that did it - I think it was Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:
Giant sentient cat-men in pink jumpsuits are a bad idea. [/QB]
On their rating scale from 1-10 the sole Kzinti appearance is a ZERO. Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Yer sounding like an annoyingly broken record or CD that won't stop skipping, Jason - or jock itch....
We get that you don't like cat-men and that you don't like monkey movies. Got it. Won't likely EVER FORGET IT.....
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
cat men are an ok idea
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I like TAS. It's funny. Therefore, I like cat-shaped bodybuilders.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:No, I'm inclined to believe that they didn't want to recreate the character of Locarno since I seem to recall he was kicked out of StarFleet Academy. Would have been a very convoluted backstory on how he got back in, only to be punted again for doing more Bad Stuff and then was needed to get into the Bad Lands....
Why? If they did carry over Lacarno, why do you assume they would've done the backstory they did with Paris? Wouldn't it be much simpler to say, "Yeah, Lacarno, kicked out, hung around, rebel without a cause - found a cause in the Maquis. Bada-bang, bada-bing."
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: Yer sounding like an annoyingly broken record or CD that won't stop skipping, Jason - or jock itch....
We get that you don't like cat-men and that you don't like monkey movies. Got it. Won't likely EVER FORGET IT.....
A REAL BAD idea, Jeff. Real bad.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
with Locarno, i think the issue is thatthey wanted the Voyager character to have more Starfleet experience than Locarno would have, being un ungraduated fourth year cadet. If they had had the foresight to make him a lieutenant who was a command cadet (as Lt. Saavik was in TWOK) then they could have postulated that he had had some ship experience but had still been a fuckup... (of course this gets more convoluted later when Nog had more combat experience as a third year cadet than most of Starfleet, and was graduated early)
basically, they didnt think they could use Locarno without an elaborate backstory of him having more experience in the fleet than the original character had, hence Tom Paris.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
^And this was my thinking, too.^
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Who is Jeff? Jeff Raven? Is he now Griffworks!?!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Jeff Griffin is "Griffworks".
See his cool website for more details, cool models and because it's cool, it has NO CAT MEN in pink spacesuits. None.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
But these were evil cat men in pink suits, surely that has to mean something!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It means cats are colorbilnd and the Kzin were such losers that no one told them their spacesuits were pink. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The Kzinti are from the group of Cat's that left Red Dwarf that DIDN'T crash into an asteroid because they thought Lister's laundry list was a secret code to the promised land of Fushu.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
"you insolent hairless apes!" *bangs staff on floor*
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Oooooh those Kilrathi and their damned pointed ships! Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Who is Jeff? Jeff Raven? Is he now Griffworks!?!
Huh?
I am.
That's all the explanation that's required. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
There seem to be several older, possibly banned or unwelcome Flarites that were banished to the Phantom Zone or something and you would'nt want to be confused with them now would you General Zod...er..."Griffworks".
...if that is your real name...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Who is Jeff? Jeff Raven? Is he now Griffworks!?!
Huh?
I am dorky.
That's all the explanation that's required.
All too easy.... Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: There seem to be several older, possibly banned or unwelcome Flarites that were banished to the Phantom Zone or something and you would'nt want to be confused with them now would you General Zod...er..."Griffworks".
There is no such cabal of banned old guard. We are not Soviet Russia. No one is trying to assasinate me with an ice pick. Uh, anyway, Jeff Raven is not only not at all banned or unwelcome, but is in fact a frequent reader, if our recent visitor bar is any indication, and started a thread in Enterprise not two weeks ago.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
He also likes football, lasagna, pays tax and...*checks notepad*...helps his landlady bring out their dead.
What a guy!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Ahh, HERE's the image I've been looking for...
Mark
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
LOL!!!!!!! Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
The Grond!! Mortal enemies of the Ajir!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Shik is correct, for ten points.
Mark
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Man, that was the funniest 2 comics I ever saw. When Kirk surrenders the Excelsior to a ship that doesn't even have an iota of its power...when the guy breaks the universal translator & then is admonished for stealing Scotty's repair lines...when LT Naraht watches the Ajir eat the table & thinks, "Boy, I bet that tastes awfully good..."
And then the Grond show up & blast the Ajir ship to shit & they have to go through everything again...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Ahh, HERE's the image I've been looking for...
Mark
Oh...dear.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Holy Fuck. Toonses with phaser rifles.
Intelligent cat-creatures are a terrible idea. Cats developed the way they have due to environmental pressures: fur, claws tail for balance while hunting etc. simply because they were needed to survive. If a planet really did develop a intelligent race from cats they would not still look like cats at all after millions of years of evolution and the easy life that a technologically advanced species would have.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, let's be fair here. Giant talking cats are a bad idea for aesthetic reasons, not scientific ones. If we're tossing out aliens because they're unworkable than we'll be left with zero hours of Star Trek to watch.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Okay. I was just pointing out that anything that evolved to an intelligent lifeform would not look like lower lifeforms from our isolated planet.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
OK, OK!!! I won't use the Tzenkethi, or any of their derivative races, remote descendants, offspring, or anything that is described as even remotely cat-like in my fan fiction project.
Shame on me for starting the thread in the first place.
CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE PUSSIES OF WAR! Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
Mark
"When Berman and Braga said "more T&A" that wasn't the sorta "pussy" they were after!"
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The most pussy Sulu will ever see.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What about Demora's mother!?! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Artificial insemination: Sulu and Chekov were just a little too chummy for all those years for "just freinds". Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I know this is rather late in the conversation to go back to the "rights" issue, but I recall there being talk that maybe, just maybe, the DS9 people were going to have to pay royalties to the bloke who wrote "Mirror, Mirror" (I have John Black in my head, although I'm 100% sure that's wrong), for use of the mirror universe. FOR SOME CRAZY REASON.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Artificial insemination? I don't follow you Jason. Which one of these blokes had ovaries that needed to be fertilized without the sex act?
Are you talking about a child being created from two same sex partners and male pregnancy? To do that a woman would need to donate an egg and the chromosomes in this egg would need to be replaced with the chromosomes found in a sperm cell of one of the partners. This procedure would have to happen in a lab, and invitro fertilization techniques (test tube baby) would need to be used.
So I guess it would be Sulu who would to have the embryo transplanted into his body and carry it toterm. After nine months, baby Demora would be delivered by Caesarian section.
I know that your post was a joke. But the idea does not seem as far-fetched as it first appears, its a logical outcome of the genetic engineering, cloning and fertility research currently being performed, and I am really surprised that the idea hasn't shown up yet in a Trek episode. Although such appearance of this idea, like same sex marriages, would be met with some controversy.
By the way, artificial insemination or AI, is a way to cause pregnancy without having a male on hand. It is a technique commonly used on farms to breed cattle. I believe that it used on a limited basis to breed swine and horses.
Semen is collected from the male, it is placed in glass vials called ampules, and then placed into a tank of liquid nitrogen to slow the cells down and keep them alive. When pregnancy is desired, the semen is "thawed", then introduced into the female using a syringe-like device.
What makes it pretty cool is that children can be produced from a father years after he is dead, and it allows farmers and ranchers to create herds of animals with genetic diversity and eliminate inbreeding problems.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I believe he was suggesting that Sulu and Chekov were gay, but that a woman was artificially inseminated w/ Sulu's "seed" in order to produce his daughter.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
I got it. The logical explanation for Demora is that she must be the love child of Chekov and Sulu, since Sulu didn't express any romantic interest in any guest star during the entire run of the TOS, TAS, or Treks 1-6.
I thought that I would share my knowledge and interest of animal husbandry and genetics, and try to present a plausible explantion for how Demora popped up at the beginning of Generations. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It was more a joke for anyone taht's met George Taki. My sister met him and they talked for about half an hour (I had to work!) and she's convinced that he prefers men. REALLY prefers men in fact.
It does'nt bother me, I'm cool with his character being gay too: he really didint ever have a girlfriend on the show did he?
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Hikaru Sulu is one of my favorite characters in all of Star Trek, and I have always found it a treat to see George Takei play other characters in movies and on television or the times when I recognize his voice in the narration of a documentary.
My participation in the character's sexual orientation thread was just a joke too. I don't believe that Sulu or Chekov are homosexuals. Nor do I disapprove of homosexuals. Some of my closest friends are in same-sex relationships.
Mr. Takei seems like a very eloquent,educated, intelligent, and thoughtful person when he grants interviews, and I just haven't got around to reading his autobiography To The Stars, but would like to soon.
I think that it's a real pity that the fans have not been able to convince Paramount that the fourth or fifth Star Trek{/i] series should have centered on the adventures of Captain Sulu and the crew of the [i]U.S.S. Excelsior. I think that its been a real loss to fans, and a missed opportunity to tell the story of the events of the 78 years between Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country and TNG.
I fear that if there ever is a sixth series, Mr. Takei will be too old to handle the rigors of an action/adventure series.
Thankfully, Pocket Books has allowed stories about the adventures of Captain Sulu to be published in novel form, and I enjoy reading them.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I agree: If they had made a action packed Excelsior movie a year or two after TUC, I'd have been thrilled. What books are your refering to with Sulu as a Captain? I know of only "The Captain's daughter" witch while dramatic and with good charactizations (Harriman in particular) was sorely lacking in the plot department. The "Captain's Table" book with Sulu and Kirk was pretty good as well, if not a strictly "Sulu" story.
Looks like much more will be done in the post-TUC era soon though as the series explaining the "Tomed Incident" starts this year and features the Enterprise B prominitely......mabye we'll see the Excelsior as well. Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
This site gives a pretty good write up and review of the published Captain Sulu books out there. Curt has also created a site for the New Frontier books by Peter David and The Animated Series.
You have also have probably seen PsiPhi.org, a site dedicated to Pocket Books. It describes a book coming out called The Sundered by Andy Mangels and Michael A. Martin that is supposed to be a story in which the Tholians. The site also have Guides for the forthcoming Lost Era series and the Starfleet Corps of Engineers series. The site also lists the books that give us the backstory of the TNG charcters up to the beginning of Star Trek: Nemesis.
As for the books: looks like everything's been pushed waaaay back for o good reason: starting with DS9:Unity.
Disgusting that the worst Trek books (Genesis Wave) ever written are becoming their own series. Nothing like John Vornholt making universe threatening crossovers every year untill Picard saving the quadrant is as predictable as a episode of GI Joe. Odd that Pocket Books are either amazing (like the DS9 books) or total shit without much middle ground.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
the excerpts of upcoing books are useful in revealing how complete shit they are.. that Sundered thing is a piece of crap
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