I'm working on my TOS computer display skills Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Harry, that graphic kicks ass!
Would you be so kind as to tell me which font you're using? I've got something similar, but it's a fan-designed font that doesn't work well at small sizes...
Just for comparison, here's a TOS-style map I did a few months back, in anticipation of someone doing a TOS-era "You're the Admiral!" game at some point. I ended up using the TUC movie font, which looks a little out of place, but it's okay. For now, anyway. (That's why I'd like something better. )
However it's a little chaotic, even for a DCARS display. Try pulling things a little closer together, lineing up the buttons with the text and maybe expanding the map a little.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The font is Impact. Yes. Standard, oh-please-god-why-do-people-use-it, Microsoft Impact. Part of the Windows fonts, IIRC. I did change the spacing a bit though (in CorelDraw, word-spacing to 150% and character spacing to 25, IIRC). And the colors are blue, red, Kentucky Green and yellow + one ctrl+click of red.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Impact, eh? I've got that... it's not a great font, but it actually looks okay there. I'll see what I can do with it. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: (That's why I'd like something better. )
That reminds me, I was going to post this for you ages ago, but I lost track of the thread and got distracted by something else. Better late than never.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
LOL! Love the button with 1337 on it Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: That reminds me, I was going to post this for you ages ago, but I lost track of the thread and got distracted by something else. Better late than never.
Um... ummm... holy cow! Now THAT'S a nice chart there!
Damn, now I'll have to rework mine all over again... Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I must say, you all are showing exquisite taste by using my ships!
Here's the font suggested by Geoff Mandel. It's called Alternate Gothic. I have a Type I Mac font that came bundled with CorelDraw, but I usually use TrueType. I've found some vendors from whom you can purchase this font, but would rather find a free version somewhere...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Wasn't the Kilrathi homeworld... Kilrah? Just checking... Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Could be. Never played Wing Commander
I'll have to check my CorelDRAW CD for that font... I'm sure either that or Futura was on one of 'em.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Masao: I must say, you all are showing exquisite taste by using my ships!
Hey, one of mine is in there too!
quote:Here's the font suggested by Geoff Mandel. It's called Alternate Gothic. I have a Type I Mac font that came bundled with CorelDraw, but I usually use TrueType. I've found some vendors from whom you can purchase this font, but would rather find a free version somewhere...
How's this? Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
LOL... "U.S.S. Lillian Sloane". Nice.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Thanks to Kris and Masao for pointing that font out. Very nice one!
And here's my own map again, redesigned to use those icons like TOS really did, with the ship diagrams off to the side.
It's a little redundant now, but I knocked this together to show the differences in the fonts. Bear in mind that I've altered the letter spacing to mor closely match the original.
Some notes on Minuteman's map:-
If you make the grid 20x20 squares then you won't need a pixel-to-light year scale bar.
Assuming you're using Mandel's star charts as reference then you might have missed the fact that the Azure nebula does cross the Klingon/Federation border. Which is probably why Sulu attempted to use it to sneak across the border and why Kang was in there waiting.
I take it that you're assuming that the Epsilon monitoring stations are fairly new at the time of TMP and was not around during the TOS-era? Since once again Mandel's charts has #10 sat near the nebula (probably to keep an eye on the border) and I see you didn't include it on your map.
quote: LOL... "U.S.S. Lillian Sloane". Nice.
I'm assuming that history still records her as being Zeph's co-pilot, if not I'm sure she flew in other flights and contributed enough to humanity to desereve some recognition. Plus we very rarely see any ships named after women...which is a little strange when you consider that a crew seams to usually refer to their ship as "her".
P.S. I'm pretty sure that I got the sector & quadrant numbers correct, going by the Starcharts' system that is. (very handy book that, incase you didn't notice )
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Some notes on Minuteman's map:-
If you make the grid 20x20 squares then you won't need a pixel-to-light year scale bar.
I originally made the map so that it was relatively close to Mark's original size -- mainly for ease of conversion, but also so that it could (mostly) appear on one screen, without the need for much scrolling.
And I'd probably put in a scale bar even if it was a relatively round number, just for reference.
quote:Assuming you're using Mandel's star charts as reference then you might have missed the fact that the Azure nebula does cross the Klingon/Federation border. Which is probably why Sulu attempted to use it to sneak across the border and why Kang was in there waiting.
Yeah, I did base the map on that sector from "Star Charts." I figure that given the level of conflict between the UFP and the Klingons, some shift in the border almost *had* to have happened. That's actually why I put that minor star system in there -- because by the movie era, that system will be in Federation hands (according to my conjecture). Basically it becomes a focal point for the balance of power, where both sides have some advantage from the nebula.
quote:I take it that you're assuming that the Epsilon monitoring stations are fairly new at the time of TMP and was not around during the TOS-era? Since once again Mandel's charts has #10 sat near the nebula (probably to keep an eye on the border) and I see you didn't include it on your map.
Yes, I figured that the Epsilon stations were probably new, meaning that the Admirals would have to revise their deployment patterns somewhat in order to protect the station. Stop it, you're giving away my material! Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I say 20x20 because a sector is 20 light years down the side, so one square would equal one light year. That's what I call ease of reference
quote: Yeah, I did base the map on that sector from "Star Charts." I figure that given the level of conflict between the UFP and the Klingons, some shift in the border almost *had* to have happened. That's actually why I put that minor star system in there -- because by the movie era, that system will be in Federation hands (according to my conjecture). Basically it becomes a focal point for the balance of power, where both sides have some advantage from the nebula.
Yeah, I can see now that the border is a different shape and it is after all disputed in this period.
quote: Yes, I figured that the Epsilon stations were probably new, meaning that the Admirals would have to revise their deployment patterns somewhat in order to protect the station. Stop it, you're giving away my material!
Maybe you should mark in the construction site then? Assuming they all have the same basic design as E-IX then they're quite substantial structures and would probably take some years to build. Especially in deep space where there is no convenient planet nearby from which to ship personnel and materials.
BTW, why didn't you mark on SB-157?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Because SB-157 hasn't been built yet?
I know TOS SB numbers went up to 200, but I also think there's a distinct lack of chronological order evident there. Worse, in fact, than with starship registries. And the presence of a big starbases would wreak havoc with Dan's scenario, I presume...
So, when do we get to demolish Sector Zeta?
(Incidentally, there's at least one deviation from the "rough 2D" rule of the earlier Sector maps here: Jouret is significantly above the galactic plane, assuming the Borg beelined from (roughly) there via Wolf 359 to Earth. Not so significantly that it couldn't be within a cube whose bottom the map plane represents, though. But the distance from the center field to there is a bit longer than indicated by a 2D interpretation.)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
De-cluttered the display a bit, and used the new font:
Look! It's real!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I just realized something..
Those TOS yellow-red-green displays never really showed mission-specific info. Pretty much all of them were giving statistics and diagnostics of the ships's systems. The real 'library computer' always showed maps, texts and diagrams as simple line-drawings and typewriter texts, usually cropped to the most interesting parts...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yeah, but where's the fun in that? Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: I just realized something..
Those TOS yellow-red-green displays never really showed mission-specific info. Pretty much all of them were giving statistics and diagnostics of the ships's systems. The real 'library computer' always showed maps, texts and diagrams as simple line-drawings and typewriter texts, usually cropped to the most interesting parts...
The same is basically true of the computer graphics in the Movies, at least until ST:IV. It's up to us to fill in the gaps.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
P.S. The map is looking much better of course
[How strange, I can't edit for some reason] Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Of course, guys, the Romulan Neutral Zone display doesn't use Alternate Gothic! Geoff Mandel suggests that Futura was also used for some displays. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I really like how you've incorporated the map on to the screen!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The reality is that there wasn't any regularity in TOS displays. There were the static red-green-yellow-[very little blue] bridge displays, a bunch of orange-grey graphs, and those static 'scenery' displays in the bridge bulkheads.
All the other displays were simple sketches, typewriter texts and/or pages from books. The BoT map is also unique (although there was a similar-looking map (?) in the Corbomite episode).
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Here's my redraw of the Neutral Zone chart. The fonts are exact matches for the originals and are Futura Heavy (most of the text) and Futura Extra Black (for "neutral zone"). The fonts came with Corel Draw. http://lobotomy.pleh.net/~flareupload/uploads/232/NeutralZone2.jpg Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
In the original NZ map - what is that scale... 5000 what? It couldn't be light years...
Light days? Light months? What is a parsec?
ALSO - the colour of the stars shown might help with positioning it on a real map!?!
To the left is a big red dot - similar to Romulus... does this perhaps represent an inhabited system - or the different colours corresponding to different sequences of stellar evolution?
The large red dot on the left might represent Aldebaran or Betelgeuse? Aldebaran is def red - is Betelgeuse though?
Remember The Romulan empire isn't far from Earth. Well, parts of it - I'm guessing this part. Possibly the reason for the delayed transmission in "The Defector" was that Galornden Core? Or where ever they were in that episode was on far reaches of the RSE.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OMG second thought.
OK Romulus and Romii (Remus) people could never work out if they were twin stars or twin planets... I think cause of the symbol clutching the two planets - then they are planets.
The Earth outposts there were on asteroids were they not in BoT?
Could it be that at that point the Romulan Neutral Zone crossed through the Romulan system?? That would explain why there was a comet in BoT and also why the Romulans only used "simple impulse"!
5000 might be a scale of 5000 million km? or what ever number of zeroes makes it work for a solar system.
The Earth outposts were set up to monitor the Romulans after the Earth-Romulan war.
I'm not saying that by TNG the Neutral zone was that WIDTH - when you get out of the system it might expand out to light years. OR that the outposts were destroyed and the Neutral Zone was expanded to light-years after the events of BoT?
I mean the earth outposts maybe on Asteroids in a belt - or maybe even in the Oort cloud/Kuiper Belt of the system. (what's the difference by the way)?
So instead of assuming that this map is on the scale of light years it might be on the scale of the system or a very far out view of the system.
Additional:
From what we have seen in Enterprise - Earth outposts aren't very far out yet. So this would meld with Romulus not being too far away from Earth.
Remember in "Past Tense Part 1" - when the timeline had been changed - the closest settlements were by Romulans. They're lack of warp might also account for their non-contact of Vulcans and Humans... as well as being �ber xenophobic.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
A parsec is 3.26 LY. It's "the distance from Earth that a star or other astronomical object to be to shift its apparent position (due to parallax) by one degree of arc as Earth moves from once side of its orbit to the other." From "Star Trek Science Logs."
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I'm gonna assume Romii is not Remus, but instead a heavily populated Romulan colony nearby and just has a similar name.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well "Romii" would seem to be a contraction/corruption of "Romulus II," meaning presumably that it is a binary sister to Romulus (I). These being stars, not planets.
-MMoM Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Another one. With Futura. And different character spacings, like the BoT map
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i think the Futura looks much more authentic for Fleet readouts and maps and such.. the other font (seen on the HULL PRESSUR COMP'TS or whatever graphic from TOS) sems to fit better only for technical schematics..
and history and biographical data seems to be limited to not typewriter fonts, but definitely typeset looking black text on white screen.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Oh.. I seem to have missed the fact that Alondra and Mantilles are supposed to be in the same system. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Nice TAS reference, all the same. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
and the other planet, the one that was missing.. i was gonna comment on why there were other star systems only a few AUs away.. although i suppose they could be light years distant.. just 'under' the 2D plane of the map..
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Nice TAS reference, all the same.
Ah-ha! That's why I couldn't figure out which episode this is from.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Nice TAS reference, all the same.
Ah-ha! That's why I couldn't figure out which episode this is from.
Tee hee, yeah...
"One Of Our Planets Is Missing"
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Was it BoT that established the RNZ at about one light-year wide? If so, and if that band on that map is supposed to be 1ly thick, then "Romii" or "Rom II" or whatever is definitely not in the same system as Romulus.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The 1 lightyear thickness is conjecture based on 1 lightyear squares on that BoT map. And it doesn't make much sense anyway that Romii and Remus would be the same. I mean, if Romulus and Romii on that map are planets, where's their sun?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Those squares don't say 1 ly - it just says 5000.
What could the 5000 be? Kellicams?
The thing about there being no star - maybe this again fits with my theory above that this is a solar system map - and that the Earth Outposts are either on Asteroids in the Romulus system or on Kuiper belt objects. Romulus and Romii are close planets. The Neutral zone might run through the system (maybe between the last planet and the kuiper belt objects.) And this is why the Romulans didn't need FTL. AND why there was a comet... with a TAIL!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
But it would be a rather pathetic *Star* Empire, wouldn't it?
Anyway..
Here's a TMP-era map. Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: I know TOS SB numbers went up to 200 >SNIP<
Where was this established? I'm curious to know, as I don't recall any numbers in TOS above Starbase 13, tho am going from memory at the moment....
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
"The Alternative Factor" had Starbase 200 in it. There were only supposed to go up to about 17, but sometimes writers didn't know. Thus Starbases 200 & 27.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Ahh.. "The Alternative Factor". It's like the "Threshold" of TOS
Although in retrospect, perhaps 200 is a more sensible number than 17, starbase-wise.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: "The Alternative Factor" had Starbase 200 in it. There were only supposed to go up to about 17, but sometimes writers didn't know. Thus Starbases 200 & 27.
Ah. OK, thanks. Yet another reason I wish they'd release TOS in a Season Set format....
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Nice TMP map, Harry! It's been a while since I saw TMP (though I do have the DVD-SE)... they really do use that perspective view for the map? Though it looks cool, it seems kinda illogical for a 2D display...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
That's kind of my own invention. But it is based on the countless weird "oh look we have a budget!" 3d(-ish) scanners, monitors and charts blinking on the bridge.
And TOS Season Sets are a Very Very Very Good IdeaTM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Nice display, although I'd use Microgrammer Bold-Ext instead of medium, since that's what they ended up using in the later TOS movies.
Unless of course it's an intentional tie-in to those scans of FJ's manual that cropped up in TWoK.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: But it would be a rather pathetic *Star* Empire, wouldn't it?
Well - what I'm saying is, is that it could be the just the Federation Neutral Zone side that runs through the Romulan system (and maybe only in BoT - after that it might have been pushed back due to the destruction of the outposts) and that the Romulan Star Empire extended out the other way... or up even.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Nice display, although I'd use Microgrammer Bold-Ext instead of medium, since that's what they ended up using in the later TOS movies.
Unless of course it's an intentional tie-in to those scans of FJ's manual that cropped up in TWoK.
They did use Microgramma Bold-Ext in the later movies, but it was medium in most of the TMP displays.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Ahh.. "The Alternative Factor". It's like the "Threshold" of TOS
wow, the kid knows of what he speaks...
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Nice TMP map, Harry! It's been a while since I saw TMP (though I do have the DVD-SE)... they really do use that perspective view for the map? Though it looks cool, it seems kinda illogical for a 2D display...
There are no "maps" in TMP.
There are a two tactical projections around the V'ger cloud and projections of V'ger and its weapons in Earth orbit, but that's it.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Another one. With Futura. And different character spacings, like the BoT map
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Oh.. I seem to have missed the fact that Alondra and Mantilles are supposed to be in the same system.
I meant to post this before, Harry, but I forgot. Sorry. It's a display similar to yours that appeared in Shane Johnson's Worlds of the Federation that might help if you plan to make revisions to your version.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
