Class 5 Type-X21B "Raider" Subspace/Atmospheric Strike Fighter
Class 5 Type-X21 Raider Project
Description: Experimental subspace and atmospheric strike-fighter. It is designed for traditional strike applications such as interdiction and support like the T-19 Falcon. With its excellent fighter and self-defense capabilities, the X-21 will supplement the T-19 in fleet space operations. A greater emphasis was put on improved atmospheric flight, and has been designed to out perform the T-19 in maneuverability in multiple atmospheric environments. Despite it's smaller size, the X-21 will include a full mission spectrum of space and atmosphere superiority, escort, reconnasissance, and close in attack starship support.
Features: The X-21 features an advanced onboard intelligence system (ADIS) instead of the traditional sensor systems operator like previous fighters. ADIS is a fully interactive computer that is capable of learning from experience to provide the piloting officer critical data support immediately.
Background: Dyson-Scott Aerospace designed and built four X-21 Raiders (YF-03-K61, YF-03-K62, YF-03-K63, YF-03-K64) from Starbase Canton. The X-21 is currently on Phase III testing and assigned to VS-93 squadron. Phase IV testing will involve active fleet operations, three will be detached to starships and one to a Marine planet facility.
Service: Starfleet and Marines
Point of Contact Starfleet Aviation Command Det. C5T-X21 Public Affairs Officer Starbase Canton, Complex C Sector 622 SCN# 121481
General Characteristics Length: 15.5 meters Height: 4.7 meters Wingspan: 10.3 meters Weight: 23,681 kilograms Maximum Speed (Subspace): Warp 3.7 Maximum Speed (Atmospheric): Mach 35 Range: 42 lightyears at maximum warp Power plants: (2) Yoyodyne TF-119-62PW warp nacelles (2) Cochrane Systems MR-997 impulse reactors (2) Cochrane Systems VX-117 directional thrusters Sensors: SF/SAS-76 Active subspace sensor SF/AQR-32E Electronic Sensor Jammer SF/SRX-62D FTL Tactical Imagery system SF/ANR-103 navigation sensor SF/APX-100(V) IFF Mk-40 VII transponder Armament: (1) SGM-3B Maverick photon missile (2) SGM-2F Stinger photon missiles (5) Type 5 MK-24 Mod III segmented phaser array (2) Type EX MK-120 Mod VII micro-torpedo launchers (6) SF/ARR-628 STARBOC torpedo decoys Crew: One (pilot and ADIS) Contractor: Dyson Scott Aerospace Corporation Date Deployed: 2392JUL27 Stardate 69527.5
[ July 27, 2007, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Nice design - looks like you were influenced a lot by the F-14. What program did you create this in?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I love the F-14, also the F-18 and F-22. I realize it doesn't mesh with canon designs.
Photoshop.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Meh, who cares if it doesn't mesh with canon designs? As the cliche goes, you can't change the laws of physics -- or more to the point, aerodynamics. If you want atmospheric combat, then you need an aerodynamic vehicle, right?
Besides, it looks awesome. Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Whoa dude, that makes me happy in my pants.
I rather like the futuretro aspects. It's like steampunk as drawn in the 23rd Century.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Good solid artwork, though if you changed the livery to reflect an early 22nd C look or even a mid 21st WWIII look, it should fit in quite well.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Thanks Rev, I equally enjoy your logo art. As I said before, I know it doesn't really fit in with the canon 'verse of the 24th century. But then again I don't see any reason why I should limit my imagination to what is normal. Unless of course I worked for Star Trek as an art designer making stuff for the series.
Everyone here knows I have a Navy background, so should it really be a surprise that something that is a part of my life would also reflect and influence my art.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Class design as always Hobbes....
dude, you need to learn some illustrator!
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Looks great, Hobbes! Yes, let's get this man some vector drawing goodness.
To me the missiles (with the fins, etc.) make it look pretty un-Trek-like (yes, absent sex life, I DID just type that), but that isn't a bad thing really. Looks really terrific. Love the design, good job on coloration and excellent detailing. Can't wait to see other views!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Not my greatest MSD, but could be worse.
Posted by Pleiades10 (Member # 1958) on :
I think its great!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Wow - nice MSD!
Do you know what would be REALLY cool... a few of you attempting MSDs of other races? For some reason the MSD above - maybe due to that blue ball inside - reminded me of that Telerian? Plague ship from "Haven" - Season 1 TNG.
We never really saw MSD's for other races. I mean what the hell would THEIR's have looked like - actually - their power system looked very much like the Ori's!
Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Ferengi, Vulcan, Andorian, Bajoran and Breen would probably be the first or main 'races' to attempt MSDs of.
Andrew
Posted by Pleiades10 (Member # 1958) on :
What about the borg cubes? HAHA!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
The blue sphere is the ADIS computer. I would say think HAL 9000 or the AI in Stealth ... only without the clich� evil psychotic tendencies.
I'm also working a slight variation to add weapon systems. Improving the look of the missile skid under the wing... the pulse phaser cannon which would retract into the hull.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
It took a while, and was harder to make than the side view. I'll have to make a few alterations to the side view to match the top view.
I originally tried to make the wings look like that of a F-22, which looked alright instead of the more conventional look I went with. I did however take the angled look of the F-22's rear fins.
Fact of the matter is, wings are needed in atmosphere. In space however, several thrusters would be needed to achieve the same maneuverability.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
No one wants to attempt MSD's from other 'races'?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Me... no. I'm not the best at making MSDs.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
A Tholian MSD might not incorperate stuff like gravity...
Breen ships might be bitterly cold (assuming their more secure areas have a "confortable" environment to Breen) and might have either higher or lower than standard deck heights (some Breen seem abormaly tall). The Breen ship interior areas shown on DS9 might have been tailored specially for the meeting with the Dominion.
Bajoran ships would doubtlessly incorperate a temple. KLingon ships probably have training facilities, limited quarters or communal crew baracks, various armory and weapons lockers, etc. Probably redundant systems backups.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Of all the non-Fed races, we've arguably seen the MOST of Klingon ship designs, so that would probably be easiest to do. The Borg would be after that, but their sets are so generic (and the ships so huge) that it would be a redundant exercise. Romulan design has changed dramatically from TOS to TNG to DS9, that it would be a toughie as well.
Mark
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Just some logos for it.. maybe not as shiny as Rev's.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Oh I don't know, I think that Mustang one is quite shiney. Though the others are a tad too millitant for my tastes.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
The first one is Soviets in Space. I love it. I dont mind the militaristic feel so much since they will essentially be for fighter pilots, people not noted for their easy going take on things. They want to think they're predators and the best around, so the imagery suits the audience.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Does it really surprise you by this point anything I do have a heavy military influence Rev?
These are pretty much based on existing Navy designs. The T-21 logo is based off this F-14 Tomcat patch. The squadron logo comes from the basic patch design most real squadrons use. As for the ESW logo, it comes from the CVW (Carrier Air Wing) logo designs which all seem to be triangular.
I try to keep it simple so it could be easily a patch on a Starfleet fighter jumpsuit.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Mate, I grew up in and still live smack in the middle of the Salisbury Plain Army Training Estate, so I'm no stranger to tanks, squaddies, apaches (noisy bastards), tornados and artillery barrages. Seriously, we're so used to distant explosions and low altitude flybys around here that if the south of England ever gets invaded, we'll be the last to notice.
So I don't have a problem with the military, I just perfer not to see it on starfleet signage. Perhaps a tad naive given that Starfleet clearly has a substantial military element, but I'm one of the few who refuse to accept the idea of a standing army of Starfleet Marines, aside from the fact that the term is ridiculously archaic, I just don't like the idea of it. Also it adds to the Earth centric image of Starfleet, which gets on my nerves a little when the organisation is supposed to represent over 150 worlds. Obviously we saw ground troops at least twice on DS9, but my theory on them is that they're more like reservists, probably spend peacetime acting as local police on their home planets or indeed they could be retired non-comms (remember that little used reserve activation clause?), like say the Bajorian Militia, as none of the soldiers were officers...not that I'm trying to derail the thread of course. ;-)
Posted by aridas (Member # 1051) on :
quote:...but I'm one of the few who refuse to accept the idea of a standing army of Starfleet Marines, aside from the fact that the term is ridiculously archaic, I just don't like the idea of it.
Yep. Now, "Starfleet Security Corps", OTOH... Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(I think referring to your military as "security" is kind of creepy.)
Posted by Capt_Jason (Member # 2026) on :
quote:Originally posted by aridas:
quote:...but I'm one of the few who refuse to accept the idea of a standing army of Starfleet Marines, aside from the fact that the term is ridiculously archaic, I just don't like the idea of it.
Yep. Now, "Starfleet Security Corps", OTOH...
Ok, but what ever happend to the "Mobile Ground Force" idea? Posted by aridas (Member # 1051) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: (I think referring to your military as "security" is kind of creepy.)
Because, of course, a military isn't designed to secure anything.
And, even though an Army can have a Mobile Guerrilla Force, a Security Corps can't have a Mobile Ground Force.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Ok, I didn't want to derail Hobbes's thread, but since he's an ex-swabbie I'm sure he'll forgive a discussion on the military in Starfleet.
Now, the here's how I see it; the way the Federation's 'Army' works is that each member world has it's own semi-autonomous security force, like the Bajorian militia, local Colonial Police, what's left of the Andorian Imperial Guard and Vulcan High Command etc, all under the larger umbrella of Starfleet Security. Now in peace time they're mostly concerned with planetary security/policing. That covers ground and air patrol, policing the cities, monitoring criminal activity and being on hand for disaster responce. Now most of these would be made up of weekend warrior types, like the TA here in the UK, or I think you yanks have something called the National Guard? Anyway, when the Federation needs to mobilise an army it draws it's ground forces from these organisations, put's Starfleet Officers and experienced Non-Comms in charge of them, puts them through a quick (a few weeks) course of training and rolls them off the the front lines. Now remember that this has only happened on a large scale once or twice in Federation history and these kinds of soldiers are certainly not the first wave. Take the Dominion War for an example, in the initial outbreak (right before the fall of DS9) Starfleet would have only just started calling these people up, starting training programs and recruitment drives. The initial missions would have been carried out by specialists with Starfleet Tactical, People like Ro Laren, Tasha Yar and possibly a bunch of veterans like O'Brian.
So in terms of labelling, they're not "Marines", because the term is outdated and they're not career Starfleet. They're truely Federation Soldiers. That is skilled and trained people from every world of the Federation. Not fleet officers or gung-ho ground-pounders, they're Soldiers. When mobalised they're under Starfleet Command because Starfleet is responsible for the greater scheme of Federation Security and they're the only ones with the equipment, logistics and of course ships to transport them. After the war, most of them would be demobbed, at which point they hand back their combadges and go back to being whatever planet they came from. Or not.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by aridas:
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: (I think referring to your military as "security" is kind of creepy.)
Because, of course, a military isn't designed to secure anything.
Nonsense: millions have been firmly secured in coffins. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(Having your military be the police is also creepy.)
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well there are plenty of police forces that are paramilitary in nature right now, and before anyone says "only in 3rd world juntas", have a look at the way SWAT operates. Anyway, in the context of the Federation a planet wide, or even system wide police force would have to practically be an army, though not in the old fashioned marching around parade grounds and saluting the evil dictator kind of way.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I always kind of figured there would be a civilian Federation police force. Starfleet security should not have jurisdiction outside of a Starfleet facility. In DS9 when martial law was declared on Earth, we saw Starfleet security on the streets, but nothing local cops.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I tend to agree. The way I see it, in peace time the local police come under the direct command of the planetary government. Think of it as sort of like the feudal system, where a lord has his vassals and on a normal day they would be just normal folk, but when the king call for war, he has to supply his share of the army.
Before you read too much into that, what I mean is that since I don't like the idea of the Federation having a standing army, when it has need of one it must draw it's ranks from somewhere and that somewhere is most likely to be the most qualified, experianced and of course disciplined people in the Galaxy, other than Starfleet. Hence local Police. Of course the word police it's in itself totally accurate, since in our frame of reference, the closest thing we know to a global police force (political satire aside) are those chaps with the blue helmets. Which is actually not a bad comparison, when you think about it. The UN troops are made up of elements of many smaller armies under different goverments and are only ever deployed under certain circumstances and are NEVER used against their own people, except in defense and when the war is over, they cease being UN troops and go back to wherever they came from.
So getting back to the Federation, while I don't think Starfleet would have direct control over internal security of individual planets, when the time comes to mobalise and equip an Army, Starfleet are the ones to do it (who else has the technology and infastructure?) and only then do they take command of the personel.
Posted by Ahkileez (Member # 734) on :
She's gorgeous Hobbes.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I sketched a civilian police cruiser once, a long time ago. Like in 8th grade or something. I remember it looked vaguely like an Intrepid-class, but of course much smaller...about the size of a runabout, I think.
Also, not just SWAT in the modern world, but the entire Russian police force. Those cats don't fuck around. Which I think is a bit smarter, really - if there's some guy with a gun threatening unarmed civilians, I think he should be taken out as fast as possible to protect the lives of the innocent, not soothed and talked to for 48 hours until they manage to sneak up and taser him. Just shoot him in the gun arm and billy-club him to the ground!! ;P
Posted by Ahkileez (Member # 734) on :
I've long been a proponent of injecting reality to Trek. Their universe is far too shallow, with huge gaps of civil services never accounted for.
Over the years, Starfleet as a concept has grown more and more bloated, seemingly having authority over everyone and everything - which really turns the UFP into a fascist state.
I'm all for filling in the gaps and wresting some of the beaurocracy out of Starfleet's clutches and putting it in more specialized hands.
Daniel Butler: Years ago I'd drawn up a police cruiser myself. Hehe. It's a bit embarassing to look at now, but I think the overall concept is still sound.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I don't like the way the nacelles curve at the end there, but otherwise it's quite nice.
I thought I'd mention something else that's bugged me about Treknology for awhile, using the Class 5 Type X21B as an example Shields, nav deflector, warp drive, phaser arrays, pulse cannon, microtorps, and obviously inertial dampers, SIF, and artificial grav plating too (well, PROBABLY grav plating)...not to mention the ADIS, life support, comms, and sensors...all powered by a pair of eeny-weeny fusion microimpellers (or impulse reactors if you like). That's all very well within Starfleet tech, which is my point - the small ships, such as runabouts and shuttles, all seem to just have infinite power supplies! Shields, warp drive, and transporters in particular must draw a hell of a lot of energy, and you can apparently tack them onto a little shuttlepod that's so small you have to wonder *where the hell it all is.* (I'm thinking of the Shuttlepod...Onizuka? here...the little boxy thing from TNG that looked like it had maybe 72 cubic feet of space that wasn't passenger cabin for the engine and shields). They must have *massively* powerful fusion reactors to get that kind of power out of a reactor that small. I wouldn't know where to start calculating it, though.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Good points there. With shuttlecraft they don't seem to have any place on them for where the warp and shuttle power comes from.
As for my X-21 (Class 5 denotes the type of craft, for example Class 1=shuttlepods, Class 2=standard small shuttles like the Type 6 or Voyager's Type 9, Class 5=fighter) it's MSD shows all the main parts you would expect. No gravity plating, the pilot is strapped into his seat. Life support is provided by the pilot's EVA-type suit. As for the rest of the systems, fusion generators and power coming from the matter/antimatter reaction.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Ah, I didn't see the M/AM generator. *That* I can believe.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Back to other races MSD's - I was also sorta referring to the style of the MSD's - as the fed ones have the LCARS colour and style... It'd be interesting to see how other races lay out their ships... actually I think we've seen the Klingon way at one point haven't we?
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