Ok... so I saw on Amazon today that La Femme Nikita Season 2 is coming out on DVD in July. I promptly pre-ordered it. I already own season 1.
I guess this counts as at least psuedo sci-fi.
Anyone else watch this series? La Femme was my "24" before "24" came on. I was plopped in front of my friends' TV (cause I didn't have cable) every week to watch it. But I didn't get into the show until season three, so I've never seen most of season 2.
Season 3 was really good, I remember, and really started getting into the backstory of Section 1 and some of the characters. Was it in Season 2 or season 3 that Section was destroyed and we finally learned that they had been in Paris the whole time? I think that was one of the cooler episodes.
I'll hold off on additional rambling until I find out if anyone else actually watched the show.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
quote:I guess this counts as at least psuedo sci-fi.
Well, yeah. Brain Washing computer games, clones, gentically engineered duplicates, copying of minds and psychics. Sounds Sci-fi to me
Robert Cochran and Joel Surnow created both La Femme Nikita and "24". I love La Femme Nikita but can't get into "24". Wierd.
quote:Was it in Season 2 or season 3 that Section was destroyed and we finally learned that they had been in Paris the whole time? I think that was one of the cooler episodes.
It was Season 3 "I Remember Paris" (easy to guess, all the titles for season 3 where 3 words long, just as all the title for season 2 where 2 words, season 1 one ectera) I think Season 4 was the one where we really learnt the most about Section 1 and its realtionship to Oversight and the Centre. Season 2 was mostly about Adrians and her plan to bring down Section. I just wished we'd learnt how many Sections there where!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, the number of words in the titles thing was cool.
Season 2, I'm pretty sure, is where Nik finds the cloning facility in Section and discovers that Section is probably cloning her. But then Section is destroyed in Season 3 and we never find out what happened to them.
Did the Adrian thing take place in the middle of season 2? I remember it was a 2 or 3 part series of episodes. Season 3 ends with Nikita being brainwashed for real this time. Season 4 then opens with Micheal trying to fix it, finally making him an actual good guy. But I don't remember how Season 2 ended. I guess I kind of thought season 2 ended with the first ep of the Adrian story. "Together my dear, you and I are going to destroy Section 1".
I hated the introduction of Center which, as I recall, didn't happen until late in Season 4. Adding Oversight and George as the Sections' operating authority was good. It put Paul in a vulnerable position. But adding Center to it and the whole Mr. Jones thing never set well with me. It was too complicated. What is Center in charge of other than Oversight?
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
quote:Did the Adrian thing take place in the middle of season 2? I remember it was a 2 or 3 part series of episodes. Season 3 ends with Nikita being brainwashed for real this time. Season 4 then opens with Micheal trying to fix it, finally making him an actual good guy. But I don't remember how Season 2 ended. I guess I kind of thought season 2 ended with the first ep of the Adrian story. "Together my dear, you and I are going to destroy Section 1".
I thought that Adrian was intoduced half way through Season 2 with the last couple of episodes showing Nikita's actual attmept to take down Section, which Micheal sabotages because he knows that its all a setup by Operations to emabass George allowing Paul to get George's job. Season 3 then opens with Nikita in trouble and looking for Micheal who has disapeared. Thats when she finds out about his son and wife.
quote:I hated the introduction of Center which, as I recall, didn't happen until late in Season 4. Adding Oversight and George as the Sections' operating authority was good. It put Paul in a vulnerable position. But adding Center to it and the whole Mr. Jones thing never set well with me. It was too complicated. What is Center in charge of other than Oversight?
I didn't mind the introduction of Centre, I was more annoyed with the revelation in Season 5 concering who Nikita's father was. That and Berkhoff's twin brother. I always guessed that Centre was ulitmatley in charge of Oversight, Section 1, Section 4 and the Farm but they where never that clear on the the heirachy of Section. Some of the Season 1 episodes seem to suggest that Section 1 is a purely American effort yet "War" suggests that they could be based in Germany and then there's "I remember Paris" and Adrian was English. I did find that annoying.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, like most series of this sort, they weren't very clear about details like who Section worked for or where they were located. There were references in Season 1 to "our government" and "the country" as well as ties to the CIA making it seem as though the Section is an American organization that recruits from all over the world.
They were pretty clear that Oversight is in charge of all the Sections. "Center can access Oversight, Oversight can access the Sections, but not the other way around." Or something like that from Season 5. There was even a meeting at Oversight once of all the Section heads where they showed all these characters. Makes sense that there would be one operating authority for all the Sections.
And Paul being after Oversight made sense if it was the highest position in the Organization. Berkhoff even mentioned once that Oversight was the only thing Paul had to answer to. Then Center comes along and suddenly there's a whole new teir.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
quote:There were references in Season 1 to "our government" and "the country" as well as ties to the CIA making it seem as though the Section is an American organization that recruits from all over the world.
Plus there was at least one episode where Paul has a conference with a US senator. Besides the elements mentioned above did we ever see anything else to indicate who Section 1 operated under? For a while I thought Section 1 was the North America/Western Europe Section, and that it was a collective agency like NATO, with others carrying different areas but then there was that episode with the Coup attempt in Latin America.
quote:There was even a meeting at Oversight once of all the Section heads where they showed all these characters. Makes sense that there would be one operating authority for all the Sections.
Which episode was that? Maybe Centre was the ultimate operating authority for ALL intelligence agencies? Both known, like CIA and NSA, and unknown like Section?
The only other reason that I can think of for involving Centre was to harken back to the original movie, but they did the two big set peices from the movie in the first season.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, both Nikita's initiation job at the restaurant and her sniper assignment from the hotel window were recreated in the pilot and in one of the episodes with Grey in it.
I don't remember the name of the episode with the meeting at Oversight, but I think it was in the third season. Operations has to go to the meeting and Micheal is left in charge. He does something that Operations told him specifically not to do.
By the end of the series, the organization looked something like this:
Center: Secret authority for many intelligence agencies in, at least, the Western World such as Oversight, NSA, CIA, probably MI5, MI6, etc. Mr Jones said that he wasn't "a king" and that there were other people that he had to at least confer with.
Oversight: Authority for all Sections. Until the introduction of Center, George seemed to be the very top man in the organization. Madeline even referred to him as the most dangerous man on the planet when she and Paul were trying to have him killed.
Section 1: Authority for all it's substations with at least some amount of control over the other Sections, but not total. Section 1 also has access to U.S. military resources and probably those of other countries as well.
Unfortunately, there were only ever slight indications of what each Section's jobs were. Section 1 personnel seemed to go all over the world and it's likely that they were the front line field agency. But there were at least a couple other Sections that engaged in field work as well. Section 4 was a research facility and it didn't sound like they did field work at all in "He Came From Four"
Posted by Nim the Fanciful (Member # 205) on :
Besson is rolling in his grave, figuratively.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Besson can quiet down and make me "The Fifth Element 2".
Another question about Section: Was the facility underground? Everything seemed to suggest it was. The few times we got to see people emerging from Section, they seemed to be coming up from some kind of basement. Nikita's escape late in the fourth season is a prime example.
Several areas seem to raise above ground level, though. The secret meeting place everyone except Paul and Madeline seemed to know about had angled vents with light coming through them, and I always got the impression that The Tower was above ground.
The facility also seems to be enormous. We got a few schematic shots now and again and there looked to be several branches and isolated areas reaching off from the main area.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I remember thinking Section 1 had to be based in Europe considering how fast they got to European cities in the same van. Also the streets and sets didn't look very much like American cities. Plus I remember a lot of "in the west" type references.
When I use to watch it I would always try to figure shit out like Operation's real name, where Section was located stuff like that. We never learned Nikita's full name.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
When the 3rd Season comes out I'll have to look out for that episode.
Did we ever see Section 1 try and overthrow and enemy goverment? I can't remeber but if we didn't I'd suggest that Section 1 was essentially a defensive agency, whilset other Sections were offensive? Maybe there's been some mission drift in Section 1's purpose and it has taken over reponsibilites of other Sections?
One of my first thourghts on watching "I remeber Paris" was how they got such a massive underground facility under a major metropolitan area, so I agree that it was for the most part underground. Obviously some of it had to be above ground to enable them to go to the garage. I thought I remebered something about the elevators point to it being underground but I can't remeber what it was. Wasn't there mentions of at least nine levels or was it ten with the Clones or the Gelman Process equipment? We know they had intergation rooms, training rooms, quaters, power generators plus a number of off limits areas.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, the layout of the Com area changed a bit, but I'm not sure when it did so. In the first season, there was a training area in view of the Perch. Later, it went away and was replaced by something else.
I think one of the the lower levels was all the super protected computer files that Adrienne got Nikita into.
Van Access didn't necessarily have to be above ground. It could've been an underground garage that lead up to street level.
Other areas we got to see included Systems, which was also a later season addition, Committee, where Operations and Madeline sometimes met, the Tower, Four West, Close Quarters bunks, the stairs leading into the perch, and a few others I can't really remember off hand, but they always kept the locations of these things pretty vague.
I know the Perch and Com weren't on the uppermost or lowermost level.
As for Section trying to overthrow governments, I don't recall they ever did. At least not outright. Operations had his own thing going on as described in the Gemstone file, but Section seemed to be mostly interested in dealing with terrorists.
Operations' full name turned out to be Paul Wolfe. Micheal's last name is Samuelle and his code name is Jacque. Nikita never got a last name. Neither did Madeline or Walter. Mr Jones (the real one) got a first name, and Paul used it, but I don't remember what it was.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
I thought that we saw somebody exiting through the garage in one episode and that pointed to it being above ground. Then again it may have been below ground.
Where were Berkoff's Quaters in realtion to every thing else? Maybe they remodled it in Season 2? or Season 3?
Didn't think that Section 1 did anything in realtion to other goverments, it was mostly terrorists and criminals. They mostly seemed to come up against Red Cell, who it seemed where the equal of Section 1, at least in access and troops. I don't think they had the same resources as Section 1, but I thought I remembered something that suggested that Red Cell was working for hostile goverments but it was brief.
Was the real Mr Jones name Phillip?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You're right. I think it was Phillip.
As far as I know, Berkhoff's quarters where only seen once and that was in the first season. I got the impression that they were "in the basement", but it never really showed how Nikita got there. I think the hallway outside was the standard corridor set they used.
Don't know about the garage thing. Maybe that'll turn up in season 2, though.
Also an interesting note: Van access was different than the main entrance we saw the team using all the time when coming back from missions. That door (the one with the LED sign above it) had an elevator behind it. So possibly, one of the places the elevator goes is van access.
There was also an ep early in season 4 when Micheal breaks back into Section after going rogue. He's on top of the elevator when it comes down with the team in it and he rode back into Section below one of the vans. To me that suggests the parking facility is above the main entryway and that he rode the elevator down.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So...a fair French film is made into a terrible hollywood movie and then re-made into an even more farfetched USA TV show.
Really, if they were shooting for cheesy, they should've cast Rhonda Shear as the lead character.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Didn't we see Berkoffs quaters when they bought in his brother?
Ok, I'll agree that the parking area was above the main entrance way that they used to go on missions. The fourth season? Was that where Micheal breaks out Adrian or was that the fifth season?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, Micheal broke out Adrienne in the fourth season. That's why he snuck back in to Section. Though how he snuck *out* again with a comatose geezer, I still haven't figured out.
I missed the episodes where the Seymore / Jason swaperoo took place, so I have no idea if they showed his room then or not.
Fifth season was only 8 episodes long and Micheal didn't show up until the last few.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
I guess there must have been some other way out of Section, of course why he couldn't use that to get in...
I thought that we did see Berkoffs room again when they brought in Seymore, but it's been years since I've seen the series.
Yeah he came in in the second last episode or so and promtly had his son kidnapped. I did like the fact that they brought in Marco O'Brien as her new partner for a few episodes.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, that was a nice tie-in back to season 1.
I'm assuming there were several ways out of Section. We've seen at least two elevators that apparently lead to an egress. There's Van Access. And there are probably any number of secret exits that only the high-ups know about.
I seem to remember someone calling the main mission entrance "west portal" or something impying there's at least one more main entryway than the one we always see them coming in through.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
I Also thought they had one of the Kids from Time to be Heros also turned up as well as a special project for Nikita. I also heard that one of the tracks for Time to Be Hero had sample from LFN in the full son, but I've never been able to confirm that.
Did we see any more exits in War or the epsiode in season 2 where they're locked down because of an infectious agent.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Jasmine from "Time to be Heros" did indeed turn up in Season 5. Evidently she survived the Farm.
I don't think we saw any exits in "War". They just said they were evacuating and suddenly they were in the secondary location. Never really showed how they got out of Section. That was Season 1, remember... noone was paying attention to stuff like that
Don't remember if we saw anything new in that other ep. I remember the show, but not much about it.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Cool, good to see that they kept around charcters. I know that they intorduced some of the same bad guys around as well ie the computer chick who worked for Glass Curtian.
True, the really didn't settle down to explaining some of the backround info till the 2nd and 3rd seasons.
I can't remeber much more about the episode either, I suppose I'll have to wait till the 2nd Season comes out and watch it then.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Sometimes they did ok with keeping characters around, sometimes they didn't. Bringing Quinn back for season 5 was great, mostly because she was really, really hot. Dropping Berkoff's assistant, Dori, after only one episode's use as a plot device was not-so-great. I don't think we ever saw her again. Maybe she didn't learn her lesson and got her butt cancelled.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
They seemed to change the support staff often without it making much sense. I didn't mind too much that we never saw the same agents, because it was quite clear that most agents didn't last long, but it didn't make sesnse for the different tech guys to vanish. What about Simon or Gail did we ever see them again?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Was Simon the guy that took over for Walter when he got sent to Retirement? I think the implication was that he was cancelled for blowing a hole in Munitions.
Who was Gail? If she was second season, I've probably not seen the ep she was in.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Simon was the guy who took over for Berkoff in the episode where there trying to get rid the guy who was smuggling plutonium and almost killed by some goon, it's the one where we see Berkoff's quaters.
It was intesting going thorugh the episodes in the first season and noticing who played Kesseler.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Ooooohh. Ok, I remember him now. He was a dork though. Can you blame them for not bringing him back?
Let's see... Gregor Kessler, right? The one that killed his daughter by biting through her jugular? I remember the actor, but why is that interesting? Did he show up later as someone?
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Well they could have bought him back as an abeyannce operative (assuming they have those for the tech's) I suppose it does make sense that he was never seen again, seeing how he almost killed everybody.
Yeah, that's Kessler. He didn't appear again. The actor however was the same guy who played Marritza from "Duet" which I didn't realise till I wondered why the name looked familiar.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Oh yah. He's a good spooky kind of actor. He plays great mysterious, pseudopsycho guys. He also played a high-up in the president's administration in the second season of "24". Though he didn't look so tough with crash cart paddles being discharged into his face. But hey... who would?
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Did he? I wouldn't know, watched half the first season of 24 and relised that Kim (thats the daughter right?) deserved to die horrible for being a moron. Which is better then I did watching Alias where it only took half an epsiode to realise that Sydeny was a moron.
LFN had you usual run of guest(Canadian) actors from what I can remeber, plus there was Edward Woodward and Margrot Kidder as Nikita's parents, I always wondered how she ended up with an Aussie accent with those to as Parents!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, that always bugged me too. I also always wondered how Edward Woodward ended up with Nikita's loser mom? We found out later that her mom was a drunk and kicked her out because she preferred her new boyfriend. So she was also apparently a bit of a skank.
I guess she could've been a bit nicer before Nikita was born and hooked up with Mr. Jones, an up and comer in the organization. They had an affair, she of course never realizing who he was or what he did. When he finally disappeared on her, it ruined her life and basically skrewed his unborn daughter.
Throughout the series, they started dropping hints that Operations was Nikita's father. In fact, they seemed to have landed on that at the end of season 4. Madeline had told Nikita this was true and Operations, though never outright confirming it, seemed to back it up. Their conversation in the last episode of season 4 always sounded like "I know you're my father, but I don't give a damn. Screw you."
Then of course, they had to figure out how to make more story for season 5. I really hated the way they were originally going to end the series with the endings presented in season 4.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
I agree it was never really laid out how Edward Woodward could be Nikitas father or why he'd decided to get her into Section 1.
Yeah they, definatly seemed to play up the idea that Operations was her father especially with that epsidoe where she finds out that the guy she killed was an abeyance operative.
What in particular about the of Season 4 annoyed you?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, season 4 was originally going to be the last season. Then fan clamoring convinced them to do a short season 5. But they didn't know that when they ended season 4, so the end of season 4 was what the creators wanted the end of the series to be.
It turns out that Nikita never felt anything for Michael and that she was playing him and everyone else the whole time. This really throws a wrench in alot of things throughout the series. For one: why did she never mention that she was working for Center while she was under the influence of the Gelman Process?
It just seemed like something they came up with at the end of the show without ever really having planned it ahead of time. In fact, it doesn't even seem like they planned it before writing the last couple of episodes. Nikita escapes Section with Michael only to be intentionally recaptured an episode later. But if she never loved Michael and never really wanted out of Section, then why escape?
I suppose she really could have been lying at the very end when she told Michael that she didn't love him... but without a season 5, there would have been no resolution to that... it would've just been out there forever. It just never sat well with me.
EDIT: A thought occured to me while writing this... maybe Nikita went through the whole escape business as one final test of everyone before the Review. Would Michael betray Section? What choice would Operations make? But if that was the case, they just didn't do a satisfying job of explaining it.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Yeah I remeber that the fans got the eight more episodes for season 5, got to be one of the few succesful fan campagins in recent memomry.
As for Nikita's assertion that she didn't love Michael I always assumed that she was lying, because she figured that Section and Centre would never let her go. So to make sure that he wouldn't follow her she told him that she didn't love him. I actually like that scene especially the bit where Michael cuts himself under his eye. Also thought that Madalines sucide was in character for her, didn't like the Hologram in season 5.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, Section seemed to make a few technological leaps forward between seasons 4 and 5. The hologram being case in point. I didn't like that episode very much either, though the title was a nice throw back to season one. "The Girl Who Wasn't There" comes from the poem Kessler kept reciting to Madeline.
I wouldn't have minded the scene... but we never got any explanation for it. Was she lying? Why was Nikita willing to risk escaping with Michael just a couple of eps ago, but not this time? I don't mind having to work for the answers, but I'd like there to be some answers at the end of the road. It just felt like they didn't know what they wanted to say about the whole but were rather focusing on the shock value of "holy crap, the entire series just got turned on its ear."
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Did they know that they had been cancelled when they wrote Four Lights Years Further? That may explain some of the tone of the epsiode, even if they found out late in the season it would have been hard to shoot a proper ending and they may have had to graft one on to the season resulting in the differnt tone.
Or they may have delibratly tried for a tragic "unending".
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I believe it was a bit of both. I know the creator wanted to do something that took everyone completely by surprise. He liked the idea of having the heroine, who throughout the series was basically an innocent prisoner, completely at the mercy of Section, turn out to be the one who decided everyone's fate.
And yes, they did know the series was going to end after season 4. Peta Wilson cut all her hair off, which is why Nikita comes back in season 5 with a shorter do. I don't know if the sets were struck or not, but I didn't notice any obvious differences in the Section sets in season 5.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Watching old LFN episodes on DVD I begin to wonder who the hell are these Special Guest Stars? I never even heard of those actors.
I agree I don't like the way the series ended. Everyone except Walter and Nikita dies, and she ends up running Section. I always kind of figured Michael would take over as Operations and Nikita would be his Madeline.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Most of the guest actors where Canadians, so it helps if you've watched a fair number of the cheaper sci-fi shows.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I didn't mind the very ending of Season 5. Nikita taking over, more or less against her will, was a fitting LFN ending. We all knew she'd never get out of Section. I always figured it would end either with her in charge or dead.
I didn't like the Paul's demise, because it reduced his character to this little boy who was just hungry for power and got desperate. I don't mind that he died, but I think it could have been done better. But it's not like they had time to do a story arc on him.
Michael going off with his son was ok. And there was this sense that eventually, he will be back. Nikita therefor has some sense of hope.
Mr. Jones' death was just damn stupid. Why would they gun him down on the street? He's the top man in the organization. You'd think they'd have a couple of questions to ask him. But I overlook it because they were playing "Spies" behind the scene and that song is just too cool.
Jason was still alive at the end, though I guess we're just supposed to assume he's still at Center. Quinn was also still alive and thank goodness for that. I'm in love with her, you see.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Yeah, Nikita in charge or dead was the only way that it really could have ended. NIkita getting out and free would have been to damn soppy and would have seemed out of place for the show. A good death would have worked as well.
I think Michael get out of section and being with his son was cool and very poingant, especailly with Nikita becoming Section 1 as the price for his freedom.
Jone's death never made sense to me, why wouldn't Red Cell want to torture him? I was kinda expecting somebody from Section to kill to stop him talking.
Quinn was cool, I liked her.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Caught something new while rewatching season 1 eps. I think the episode is called "Mother" where Nik pretends to be a terrorist's long lost daughter. At the beginning of the show, a team is getting in the van and I believe that there's a label on the hallway that says "Transport". But the set is the main entryway set with the LED readout over it. Later in the series we definitely see that the main entryway has an elevator behind it. So the transport entryway (as well as the hallway leading to it) must look an awful lot like the main mission entryway. But there would definitely have to be two seperate entries... one from Transport and another main one. Which really makes no sense... when would they *not* arrive back in Section using some kind of vehicle? And it's obviously the same set, they just hadn't worked out the details yet.
I'm going to have to watch the rest of the season and see if that set is always represented as leading directly to the van and, if not, when it changes.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
They might do it for defensive purposes, come in a different, protected and observed path to limit the risk the of someone following them.
Other wise I don't know.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OK...here's something else that's dumb, but still bugs me. I'm up to the ep "Love". Since the very first episode, Roy Dupuis has had something wrong with his fingers. Every time we get a close up of his hands, the two middle fingers of his right hand have what look like little cuts above his middle knuckle. There's also a spot on his right thumbnail like someone tried to hammer a nail through it.
I've noticed this before and never knew what they were. It's odd that they would stick around over the course of weeks, maybe even months of filming.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I've noticed it too. I have no idea what it is though.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'd say that maybe they're birthmarks or something, but I don't think they show up later. They really just look like cuts. Maybe he cut his hand up in a stunt early on.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, Section is defintely underground. Operations tells Rudy that he's "500 feet underground" in "Innocent". Of course, they also show a map of the U.S. and say that they're a "secret government organization", which we know isn't true. I'm going to guess that the map they showed was just a contour that *happened* to look like an outline of the north american continent. And "secret government organization" was a simplification for Rudy's benefit. He was a pretty simple guy afterall.
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