Quick rant -- for some reason that I don't understand, the Sci-Fi channel promoted this episode as part of the "season finale." While it's certainly closely tied to the season finale, it isn't. If you want to get technical, it's the "pre-season finale", but the "season finale", is by definition, the last episode of the season ... not the second to last episode of the season. "But it's a two part episode!" No, that's actually not a very correct expression -- you want a two part episode, you take the teaser and the first two acts and label it "episode one" then take the last two or three acts and label that "episode two." This is a story continued over two episodes. Ranting over, I'll just summize -- this wasn't the season finale. Nor was this the first half of the season finale. The first half of the season finale will be over at 10:45pm next Friday night.
**
Not bad! We get to touch with a lot of the characters we haven't seen much in the last eight episodes -- everyone but Tigh gets at least a solid line, and sometimes more -- and there's a nice focus on "a day in the life of the fleet" ... I wish I'd followed The West Wing more so I could compare how the shows are similar and different in their fictional depictions of Presidential Election Campaigns. Speaking of which -- who won The West Wing's?
There's a lot going on in the episode, and the format of the teaser reminded me a lot of "Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. 1"'s teaser. Okay, I'm jumping from here into snarkiness.
Emerging from FTL jump into a solid cliff? Ouch.
I love Dean Stockwell's line: "Well, maybe I'm a Cylon and I don't recognize you from the Cylon meetings." I'm going to be really dissapointed if Dean Stockwell turns out to be a Cylon.
Whoever thought Tyrol would look really crazy if he grew a beard was like totally correct.
I can't remember the last time either Tyrol or Cally had this much screen time.
I have a hard time believing the hangar deck is ever quiet enough for a guy to go to sleep on the dirty floor. And if I was tired enough to go to sleep on the hangar floor, I certainly would leave my pants on. Geez Chief. Thank goodness you don't wear a thong.
Weren't the Presidential Elections supposed to happen two months ago? I'm pretty sure Zarek said in "Bastille Day" that elections were seven months off, and I'm reasonably certain "Bastille Day" happened just about right away after the Miniseries (third episode into the first season, IIRC), which was ... nine months ago?
Speaking of which, I think it makes logical sense to settle on the planet. Galactica found it by accident. There's no indications the Cylons know about it, and would it be an acceptable risk to settle? I mean, sure, it's putting all your eggs in one basket, but if you keep running and the Cylons keep chasing, sooner or later they'll win. I think staying on the planet -- no matter how difficult it might be to eek out a living -- would be worth it.
Anders - again! The meeting between his group and Starbuck's Marines seems fortuitous, and expected -- were they in contact before the mission was launched? Or did they just stumble across each other by luck? Man, those Cylons sure can set up their artillery batteries quick. Guess they stopped planting shrubs.
Roslin giggles when she gets nervous. I can relate. I could tell you an embarassing story about a right of manhood when I was nervous and started giggling and it got me in a bit of hot water, but I'll exercise discretion this once.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Re: Snay's rant: I disagree, actually. I understand your argument, and it's certainly sound, but I think that in this case, the episode is in fact a legitimate two-parter: tonight's episode had no conclusion, but ended in a cliffhanger. It's a little cliffhanger leading up to the big cliffhanger. Therefore, it's reasonable (IMO) to consider both parts as "the season finale".
Re: Jumping into the cliff... Well, the worry about beaming into solid rock is a time-honored tradition that dates all the way back to TOS's un-aired pilot, "The Cage". It's nice to see that some writers finally followed up on that threat.
Concerning the timeline... I do vaguely recall that someone (maybe Roslin) said that the fleet had been on the run for nine months. If it weren't for that, I'd have just said that Helo's and Boomer's baby was born two to three months premature (is that likely reasonable, considering what we saw of the kid?). But I think we're just going to have to chalk it up to a continuity glitch.
However, maybe we can come up with a convenient explanation... like maybe the event had to be postponed in order to organize what is very, very likely to be an incredibly disorganized, chaotic, and difficult-to-tally election?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Sorry - disagree. If they'd aired it as a two-hour movie, that'd be one thing. But by splitting the story across two episodes -- uh-huh, cliffhanger or not ...
It'd be like asking you, hey, do the first three episodes of DS9's second season count as "The Series Premiere"? Or just the first?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I was at a friend's yesterday, so I haven't seen this episode in its entirety yet. But I did catch the very first bit, and am now led to comment on it. Namely: Tyrol beating up Cally was the bleakest, ugliest moment yet in the whole series. (Note that I am a big fan of bleak and ugly.) But, like, infanticide, genocide, rape? OK, not so nice. But this was such a horrific betrayal of trust.
So it got my attention. I hope it gets the amount of follow-up it deserves.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
"Emerging from FTL jump into a solid cliff? Ouch."
I wonder if the ship ended up looking like the Pegasus from TNG. I mean what would this type of situation look like?
What are the odds of Starbuck's resuce team finding Anders and his resistance group? I guess since she and Helo knew the location of their base camp, the odds would be great. Still, they found them quite easily.
How did Anders group know to go out hunting?
Funny how the Cylons knew right where everyone was. Wonder how many Cylons are on Caprica. The Raptors may have jumped in under orbital DRADIS detection, but what about other detecors, air-traffic control, or even eyes? A squadron of Raptors jumping into your world like that doesn't appear to be too stealthy.
Speaking of the rescue.... Why? Why are they sending this team back? Granted, I understand Starbuck's personal feelings on the matter, but bear with me here...
They send this strike force of Raptors back to Caprica to rescue resistance fighters. Did they plan on only rescuing one small group? How many resistance fighters/survivors are there? Would they all fit in the Raptors, in addition to the crew?
And what about people on the rest of the planet? Surely there are other guerrilla groups scattered all over the planet. Are their lives any less important than Anders group? If Caprica is the same size as Earth (for argument's sake, let's say it is), wouldn't this rescue mission be like someone setting down around NYC or upstate NY and getting a group of survivors out and ignoring the solid possibility of other survivors down in Maryland?
Seems myopic. Maybe more of a political move than a genuine attempt to rescue those left behind.
It's really myopic when you consider there are 11 other colonies to consider. Why not check and see if there are any survivors on those worlds? What makes Caprica so special?
This is the same failing the original series suffered from. We're told humans come from 12 colonies of man, and occasionally others are mentioned, but the important people and all the action and all the reflection centers around Caprica. Even Boomer, who can translate Geminese (according to the pilot) later reflects on his misspent youth hotwiring hovormobiles on the mean streets of Caprica. Not Geminon, but Caprica.
Speaking of the 12 colonies (and getting sidetracked), just where were these other planets in relation to Caprica? How much sense does this make that they have 12 colonies across the galaxy, yet they get wiped out in one attack?
Would have made more sense to put the 12 colonies as regions on the same planet. Or 12 planets within the same star system (making Kobol the star's name) or making Kobol a gas giant and the 12 colonies be moons of the giant.
Oh, rant over. Where was I?
Boomer with her wetware attachment... The more "different" these Cylons get, the easier it should be to start detecting them with just a few simple scans.
Colonial ships have limited jump range distance due to their computer systems. Cylon computers are more advanced and can extend the jump range.
Was it here or another board where someone suggested that there may have been a Cylon agent in Racetrack's Raptor group. This could account for the "misjump." Maybe the Cylons were planning on luering the humans to this planet after all.
Why didn't Roslin mention that their may be Cylon agents among the RTF and that settling on this planet might not prevent the Cylons from tracking them?
Shouldn't the survivor number go up? Nobody died last week and a baby was born. Or does that baby count?
What about the baby whose body they disposed of? Since that baby was born, wouldn't it be likely other babies are being born in the fleet?
Or what about deaths due to malnutrition or crime/violence? Are they keeping track of those? If the bad guys can easily abduct women and children for prostitution rings, maybe the fleet isn't doing a good job at taking a census.
No charges were pressed against Tyrol? He's not on any kind of medical leave? He fracking beat Cali nearly to a pulp. Something more should be going on than him seeking a priest out.
Seemed like we were dropped into the middle of a story. I was expecting the "X hours earlier) line to appear. Glad it didn't.'
Don't get me wrong. I liked the episode. Just some questions that have popped to the surface.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
It was fairly well established (in this show, anyway) that the Twelve Colonies were all located inside a single star system. Sure, it strains credibility, but I decided to let it go after they decided to have Firefly all take place in one damn system. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Shouldn't the survivor number go up? Nobody died last week and a baby was born. Or does that baby count?
"What about the baby whose body they disposed of?"
I think you just answered your own question. Starting population - 1 dead baby + 1 born baby = starting population.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Inorrect. Starting population, plus two babies, minus one dead baby, equals starting population plus one live baby.
In other news, I think they handled the Cylon attack much better in the Original Series. Lure the Colonial Fleet away from the Colonies, and then launch a simultaneous strike on all Colonies from multiple base ships. In this case, though, no one mentions Gemenon, Saggitara, Piscon, Virgon, Taura, or any of the others, except in the briefest of passing comments.
--Jonah
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:How did Anders group know to go out hunting?
Remember, his camp was attacked that morning. They weren't hunting -- they were running for their lives.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
That makes the odds of finding him that much smaller. Out of (potentially) 360 degrees of direction they could run away from their base from, they picked the path that led them to the Colonials.
But hey, it's fiction and stuff like that happens all the time in fiction.
As for the babies... Peregrinus highlights the math problem. In addition, surely Sharon and the new mother aren't the only two who have had children during these last months. The other girl had an abortion. How many others are pregnant, near birth, already had abortions or delievered babies during these nine months?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Starting population, plus two babies, minus one dead baby, equals starting population plus one live baby."
You're assuming the starting population doesn't include the human baby. If it was born before the episode started, and died during the episode, my equation would be correct.
And, since mine is the only one consistent with the numbers we saw...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
quote:How did Anders group know to go out hunting?
Remember, his camp was attacked that morning. They weren't hunting -- they were running for their lives.
Which would also go far in explaining how the Cylon artillery was so anti-serendipitous. The Cylons were chasing Anders and his Merry Men, and were able to get a good firing solution just after the two human groups met up. That their shelling would also catch the rescue party is probbly something they don't even know about.
So Sharon's back on Caprica now... I gotta see what'll happen when the two "rebe" Sharons meet. The fleet only knos the identities of four humanoid models, maybe five, if Stardoe (sorry, I like Dirk's name for the character) included a detailed description of the good doctor. Think Sharon-1 will expose Xena? And thus keep the other six models in the dark?
As for the baby thing, what were the fleet numbers over the last few episodes, and what was the timeframe involved?
--Jonah
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
So we're clear... 49,579 was the count at the head of this week's episode. And also the previous week's. The week before that was 49,584.
But none of that is very interesting to me, so I'm going to pretend like it's not happening. What is vastly interesting to me is what's happeing on with Chief Tyrol. I'm with Sol System again. The bit with the Chief whaling on Cally was the most utterly fracked up and horrible thing they've actually shown in the series thus far. I too am very curious to see where they are headed with this. As for why the Chief would be in his skivies on the flight deck, I'm less than clear. I can't imagine it's a quiet place, or an out-of-the-way place to grab some Zs, which makes me think he might be a sleep-walker or blacked out or something. The stuff with Dean Stockwell was great, but again, I can't imagine The Chief's reintegration with his crew is going to be a smooth one. There definitely needs to be some consequences (medical leave being the most lenient thing I can imagine). I really like the actor and the character a lot, and it's a shame they can't make up their mind what to do with him. I mean the blackbird gave me some hope, and this rude awakening was certainly unexpected, but I hope they've got a good plan for his arc.
The politics bit was also interesting. I'd kind of assumed it was a closer contest. Not that it should have been, but you know, whatever. The trash talk between the candidates was nice, but I was sort of hoping to see Six up there supporting Baltar (as only she can) during the debate.
As has been previously stated, it seems like a HUGE risk for this rescue op. I think had I been in command I would have decided the results would not be worth the dangers. Not the least of which is they are banking on extracted Cylon technology (which as far as I know, is the only instance they have of this particular model) The FTL instrument (organ?) seems to be animal and to their credit has a nice, gunmetal cradle of humano-techno gadgetry to interface with it. But apparently that's not enough, because they also need poor bereft Sharon to operate it. As for why they'd trust their (again unique) Cylon prisoner to control this technology correctly and not, say, warn the Cylons of their plans so that they can have advanced artillery units at the ready, well...sometimes things don't make sense. And again, one ponders why the distinct lack of your average human's ability to interface with said technology via some port in their arm might be a good start on building a functional cylon detector.
So I missed a bit of dialogue with all the shelling towards the end of the episode. Did somone (Helo?) say that the artillery was coming from where they'd parked the Raptors? Also, I suspect that a couple dozen Raptors re-entering the atmosphere would probably be the sort of thing Anders et. al would recognize, even given the distraction of Cylon harassing fire. Which might go towards explaining why they were headed that direction.
I do realize it's just a TV show and so therefore they need to do things for dramatic purpose, but bringing the critical element of your escape (i.e. Sharon) with you doesn't seem to be at the level of tactical brilliance we've come to expect from Ms. Thrace. Nor does abandoning the Raptors entirely. I'm hoping that in the next ep, someone will remember the half dozen Raptors they kept manned on the off chance they needed some close air-support.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I think Helo said the shelling was coming down between their group and the raptors.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Personally, I think settling on that planet would be a bad idea. Yeah, they're protected from scans and transmissions by the nebula, but it would be very easy for an unknown Cylon agent to acquire an FTL ship, jump away and inform the rest of the Cylons. It may be a good pitstop for supplies, but nothing more than that. I'd continue pressing on for Earth, especially since they've got some solid evidence for it now. Of course, now I'm starting to wonder if they're headed for another fleet split.
B.J.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Playing the devil's advocate:
We're kinda biased towards them continuing their journey because we know thats the point of the show. Also, we know there is an Earth of some sort.
However, for a random person in the fleet, there does not appear to be a consensus on religion, let alone whether the myth of an Earth is even real. Also, they don't know whether they can find it, let alone what condition it is in. In addition, the situation for supplies for a common person is probably much more dire than for military personnel, making the journey more strenuous.
So settling on a habitable planet might not be such a bad idea since the alternative may be to be pursued for an indefinite time with ever decreasing supplies with the only hope being a planet which may or may not exist.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Seems to me, the whole point of settling on the planet is that they think the Cylons won't find them. Except, they should know better, because they know there's still at least one Cylon on the loose in the fleet.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So whatever happened to Baltar's Cylon detector?
I think people complaining about no missions to the other worlds are missing the point. You don't wait to launch a rescue mission until you can be sure you can rescue everyone at once. Hey, there's been a big coal mine cave-in, and we can dig out four or five guys now, or wait until we've determined where everyone is. I suppose the upside of that is that if the search takes long enough, you don't have to bother with the rescue at all. In the whole system the only survivors whose location they know for sure are Anders and his group. So where else are they supposed to go?
No, my problem, such as it is, is that I think the mission planning deserved some screentime, because it is risky, and apparently requires the deployment of some major and irreplacable assets, like Boomer. On the other hand, if the Colonial Military is unwilling or unable to save the lives of Colonial citizens, what good are they? Now that would have made for an interesting campaign issue. Or, rather, would also have made for an interesting campaign issue. Because I think the settle/don't settle is also huge and debateworthy and dramatic. But the rescue mission seems to contain some of the same ideological issues at work in the campaign: bold proactive action vs. maintaining the status quo, fear of being left vulnerable vs. the hope, however statistically improbable, of seeing your friend/relative/loved one again. Not to mention the attraction of taking the fight to the Cylons again.
I also don't see how luring the Colonial fleet away to leave the homeworlds undefended is in any way more believable than sabotaging it. I mean, ignoring the dubious wisdom of sending every defensive military unit you've got to the treaty signing, the Cylons still have to defend themselves from the fleet's massive counterattack. In the original, the presence of all those battlestars is "justified" because each one is apparently a Quorum member's personal taxi.
And, while I am ranty, I'm not so sure Earth exists. Uh, in the show.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Settling on the planet would be a big hot topic among the fleet. In fact, I would have imagined the topic would have came up when they were back at Kobol too.
That's one of the things I thought about the original. It seemed like each week they were finding a habitable Earth-like planet. I could well imagine citizens of the fleet wanting to stop and settle down.
Some of the planets, like Ice Planet Zero or Starbuck's World (the one with the children fighting the tin cans) would have benefitted from the influx to the gene pool.
That is, if everyone could live with the idea of impending doom once the Cylons followed and found them.
Settling on a world has more to do than with people simply being tired of running. I still imagine this fleet being massively overcrowded with people sleeping in ship corridores, storage areas, anywhere they can.
And if they want to start having babaies, the situation is only eventually going to get worse. There is definitely only a finite amount of space, air and food within the fleet. Air and food can be replaced when they get supplies, but space can't be added that easily.
And let's see them start retrofitting more of the ships for combat. They can make bullets and fighters, surely they can make guns and mount them on other ships in the fleet.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: And let's see them start retrofitting more of the ships for combat. They can make bullets and fighters, surely they can make guns and mount them on other ships in the fleet.
There are already armed civilian ships in the fleet, as of the "Home" two-parter. When and how they got those weapons isn't addressed, though.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I'd still like to see those weapons get used. Although typically the rest of the fleet jumps away when there's any danger about.
B.J.
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: Although typically the rest of the fleet jumps away when there's any danger about.
Which is pretty logical. You don't go running into battle with women and children aboard unless you're Captain Picard. I am sure that we'll eventually get to see a civvie ship get backed into a corner and fire a few shots (just as soon as they have the FX budget for it).
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Which, considering the upcoming episode is going to be ninety minutes long, might be a while -- or that ep may be the one they decide to blow their wad on. We'll see soon enough.
--Jonah
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
For the record, and again, all I know about space fighter mechanics I learned from playing X-Wing and Tie-Fighter. But I seem to recall drawing an awful lot of friendly fire dodging through convoys. Like, "thanks really for using your big, dumb quad-firing turrets to take out that measley, shieldless Tie I was doggin', but I wish I still had my wingman or any shields left." And so there might be a decent non-budgetary explanation as to why we don't see the civies shooting.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I never could keep wingmen around.
The best use I had for other fighters was the first mission where you take out the freighters. I figured out how to use the rest of my squadron and take out all of the freighters.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The chances of jumpin into the orbit of a perfectly camouflaged habitable planet seems minimal to me. Something smells Cylon to me. I mean, a Cylon programmed the FTL jumps, and now they find this cosy planet?
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)