I'm collecting and comparing long ships because... well, just because. It occured to me to do so. So I'm doing it. Makes a change from Star Trek ships.
Thing is, after taking a quick inventory, I realise that I can only think of 3! I really thought I'd be able to think of more than that.
So far I have - Discovery from 2001 - The Star Wars medical frigate - Event Horizon
After I got stuck on movie ships, I cast the net wider and came up with Larry Niven's tether designs for ramscoops and other ships with propulsion systems that are highly inimical to human life. The Protector, for instance. A big ramscoop with a pair of fusion drives and a set of magnetic coils on the end of a 30 mile long tether, towing a heavily shielded crew compartment at the end.
Now I'm stuck. I have the feeling I'm missing something really obvious, but can't think what it is.
btw, does anyone know of any good images or models of the Event Horizon anywhere online? An image search turns up very little except movie posters. Surely someone with a dab hand at 3D modelling has done a set of orthographic views or something? It's a very impressive looking design.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
*shudder* Event Horizon. Bad movie.
Now I'm stuck. I have the feeling I'm missing something really obvious, but can't think what it is. Duh! Spaceball One!
Posted by Chris (Member # 71) on :
If you're interested, a lot of the ships I've made for my little imaginary race of space-going folk are long with long bits in the middle clicky.
There's also the EAS Cortez from B5...
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Well, it's never been made as a movie AFAIK, but there was some Niven story about some alien named Pssthpok or something like that & he had a ship that was like 12 miles long. It was like...3 small pods connected by miles of thin string. Or such. I don't know, I don't read Niven, btu a guy I went to HS with raved about it.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
What about that spindly Enterprise thing you see for about 3 frames in TMP. Does that count?
The Leonov would be long and spindly if it wasn't for that big rotating bit in the middle.
Oh, oh, what about the D7, or is that not long and thin enough?
Erm... There's the titular Lexx I suppose. Ok. Now I'm struggling.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Concur about Event Horizon the movie. I have always thought that Event Horizon was a complete waste of a perfectly good opportunity to make a decent space opera. Instead they had to blow the whole SFX budget on a crappy horror movie with spacesuits. Even Sam Neil couldn't rescue this mess from mediocrity and pointlessness.
Shik, I think that was the Protector as well. Niven had at least two instances of Protector. One was an alien and one was a large asteroid equipped with fusion drives in which parts of the interior were hollowed out as hangars, cargo spaces and living quarters.
I'll have to dig out my copy. You should give it a go sometime. Very good stuff, mostly. Not lately though. He's getting old and it's starting to show. In particular, if you wish to consider yourself a true SF fan, you must read Ringworld. It was actually published as two different editions. The second version was an amended copy which included revisions to the design and function of the Ringworld as suggested by the readers, who wrote to him about problems with the first design after reading the first edition.
Chris, interesting designs. I particularly like the inclusion of exposed scaffolding. I understand and appreciate Roddenbery's logic that advanced manned spacecraft would have smooth exterior hulls because all the high maintenance stuff is kept inside. However, every square centimetre of exterior plate that isn't there for a very good reason is just extra mass that costs extra fuel.
This is a particularly appealing feature of designs like Niven's. There is also the antimatter rocket design (select Valkyrie from the menu in the following link): http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3aj.html which is a design for super lightweight interstellar relativistic spacecraft. Tethers are potentially revolutionary because their use eliminates all the structural reinforcement that a tail end "pusher" configuration requires, as opposed to the towed or "puller" configuraion.
Wasn't the EAS Cortez the ship which that fella who was Captain of Excalibur captained before he took over Excalibur?
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Ginger, good suggestions. I suppose I didn't really consider the D7 because the "head" is so small, it doesn't really have the same look as, say, the medical frigate. The long neck is more like an extension rather than a major section of the main hull.
That spindly Enterprise thing being the so-called SS Enterprise with two huge rings at one end and something not unlike the D7's "head" at the other?
Lexx. Now there's a spliff induced design if ever I saw one!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well I could tell about some Star Wars expanded universe ships with the long part, but in canon terms the Rebel Blockade Runner has a long part.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Oh yeah, the Tantiv something ship that got nabbed at the start of Episode IV?
You know, take away those extensions on either side of the central spine and replace them with big fuel tanks that can be jettisoned, and you're probably looking at a pretty realistic looking orbit to orbit spacecraft of the sort that we might one day observe tramping between Earth and Mars. Possibly.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
That's what I get for skimming. Also, eff a Ringworld.
Cortez was Jack Maynard's ship. Gideon's had no nmae mentioned.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
What about the Colonial Movers ship?
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Ah, the Colonial Movers. The best Apollo capsule kit bash I've ever seen!
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
The Varro ship from Voyager sounds like just the kind of thing you're talking about.
Courtesy of cloudster.com Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm surprised no one mentioned the Excalibur from Crusade...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Lexx. Now there's a spliff induced design if ever I saw one!"
I don't know that they really had to be high to design it. I mean, it's just a giant space-penis made to look kind of bug-like.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Quite a few of the ships in the various Tenchi Muyo! series and movies are particularly graceful. I'm trying to remember what the Pioneer from Buck Rogers looked like.
The long skinny design mode doesn't work well for sci-fi with a lot of conflict. That's one of the reasons the Rebel frigates stand out in our memories. Ships that fragile-looking seem like they shouldnt be in combat situations -- let alone do well in said situations. That's why they tend to show up more as set-peices, as the Discovery and Event Horizon demonstrate to good advantage.
I don't quite know if the Excalibur qualifies for the same reason the D7 doesn't qualify... the forward section of the Excalibur isn't big enough, IMO.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Actually, the D7 is more in keeping with the design philosophy - separating drive and control/living sections, even if parts of the rear section are in fact habitable in this case. Excalibur, however, isn't built around the same principle, since all that's at the end of the pylon/shaft are the main guns.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
Peregrinus, thanks for those. Just what I was looking for.
Yes, I discounted the Excalibur because the spacecraft is essentially the aft section with a large weapons platform mounted on the end of a long pylon.
On reflection, the D7 is probably a contender as Lee suggests. Perhaps it's the relative sizes of the two sections which is misleading. The "head" would actually contain a lot of volume, although some of that is sacrificed to the torpedo launcher.
quote: The long skinny design mode doesn't work well for sci-fi with a lot of conflict. That's one of the reasons the Rebel frigates stand out in our memories. Ships that fragile-looking seem like they shouldnt be in combat situations -- let alone do well in said situations. That's why they tend to show up more as set-peices, as the Discovery and Event Horizon demonstrate to good advantage.
Well, actually, it all depends on your frame of reference. I know a gentleman who is a naval architect in his day job and so is familiar with the principles of warship design and engineering generally. He once created a 3D computer model of a double ended spacecraft. Imagine a long central shaft with a centrifuge torus at the centre. Offset from that is a pod containing the command and control. At either end you have a main drive assembly which also contains the main weapons systems. The ship can thus accelerate, brake and accelerate without having to flip over to point it's engines in the right direction. It is also designed to that if one end of the ship gets shot off, the spacecraft can survive, fight and propel itself using the remaining drive section!
Of course, he designed this ship with real physics in mind. As such, his spacecraft is limited by the constraints of human biology, which prevents him accelerating much above 5g in any direction for more than 3 to 5 minutes at a time. In the Star Trek or Star Wars frames of reference this ship would be overwhelmed by spacecraft using faster than light drives, inertial dampers and unfeasibly powerful force field shields and directed energy weapons, against which his reaction drives and rail guns would be ineffective.
I will ask him for permission to post the image here. It's rather nice looking. Parts are mirrored for defence against lasers.
Also, Larry Niven imagined conflict between ramscoop ships designed as components strung along the length of miles long tethers. You can find an extract of this text at this link http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3aj.html#derivatives It's the second section from the bottom of the page.
I suppose that such a distributed set of components might actually be harder to hit than a compact, voluminous hull. And cutting the tether would be extremely unlikely, just as they discovered in World War I when they tried to use artillery bombardments to cut barbeb wire. All they succeeded in doing was moving it around.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Just remembered that the ships in the Honor Harrington universe are another set of rather long, phallic-looking ships.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Star Trek and Star Wars ships shjould really be disqualified from such a General-Sci-Fi-oriented discussion anyway, because they operate from a different set of physical assumptions. The "reality," of combat especially, would preclude ships interacting at close visual range at near-identical relative velocities. The Discovery may look fragile and near-motionless but in fact it's moving at a great clip (I'm not sure of what speeds Clarke specifies in the book version) and - although not mentioned in the film and likely ignored by the designers, probably because the film had Jupiter as the destination, not a way-station - was intended to use the Jovian upper atmosphere for aerobraking (as Leonov did in the sequel).
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Actually, the D7 is more in keeping with the design philosophy - separating drive and control/living sections, even if parts of the rear section are in fact habitable in this case.
Then what about the Vorcha, the Neg'Var, the D-5(Enterprise), or the Raptor(Enterprise)?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I only mentioned the D7 because someone else did first, and the statement still applies to most of the Klingon ship designs.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I suppose that four-naceled Excelsior testbed would qualify.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
What about the Cardassian/Klingon Freighter?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Event Horizon is one of the most underappreciated horror movies of the 90's, it's so sad that it got fashionable to piss on it. It's the first space horror movie since "Aliens" that approached that level of creepiness, I'd say, thinking of the scene with the "lost log" found in the ship's computer. And it was the first time I ever saw believable explosive decompression (compared to the PG'd flashfreeze in "Mission To Mars"). As for the ship, isn't it like the largest ship miniature ever used for a movie?
Does anyone have a screenshot of that later, Romulan Warbird-looking ship-class we see in the very end of the movie, when the infomercial shows the humans having developed better rifles, ships and anti-meteor defenses? I don't have the DVD.
Those ships looked cool, like a cross between a Warbird, the Rodger Young and a WH40K-ship.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I don't remember a Pioneer in Buck rogers. Do you mean the Searcher?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Event Horizon is one of the most underappreciated horror movies of the 90's, it's so sad that it got fashionable to piss on it.
Fashionable, my ass. My wife and I both independently thought it was a piece of crap. The reasoning is mostly because it fooled us into thinking that it was a sci-fi movie. Instead, we got a horror movie, and neither of us are into horror at all.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Ye gods, that's a huge model! But it easily showed on screen, the level of detail that went into it.
Now, I also liked Event Horizon, if for nothing else but the nicely gritty look at what space travel might look like. At least with the Lewis & Clark, which is not too far down on my list of cool li'l spaceships. There's a near-continuous opening shot which shows practically the whole ship from stem to stern of her habitable volume. It's a neat little vessel, and a very cool set piece.
The plot? Sure, it's got holes large enough to fly the Event Horizon model through (starting with sending the L&C out to rescue a crew of 13 with no apparent means to bring any of them back alive). But I found the idea workable enough - scientists looking to achieve interdimensional FTL light instead accessing the dimension of EVIL!!! - and the visual look was great IMO. Plus, it had that Matrix guy and that dinosaur guy. And, the only easily accessible look at Sean Pertwee, son of Jon, and IMO the ONLY one who has a decent chance of eventually playing a past Doctor Who in the new series - he's really the spitting image of his dad's face and voice.
Lightweight SF horror, with a decent idea. By no means Shakespeare, but worthwhile enough for me to have watched it a couple more times after I bought the DVD in a bargain bin.
Mark
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
B.J:
quote:The reasoning is mostly because it fooled us into thinking that it was a sci-fi movie. Instead, we got a horror movie, and neither of us are into horror at all.
Too bad you didn't see the trailer before watching it. Or read the back of the box, either would've helped.
Anyway, Mark:
quote:I found the idea workable enough
Also, the Lewis&Clark and the former crew were macguffins. *megashrug*
I loved Pertwee's last scene, he acted so great when looking at that counter, I've never seen that reaction in that scenario before. Well maybe Jeff Daniels in "Speed", but Pertwee's was better. I felt ripped off in the end of "Equilibrium" when I got no Pertwee (just some fat bureaucrat). I wanted to hear him banter with Bale, architect style. But otherwise it was ok.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Pertwee fans should check out Dog Soldiers. It's great fun.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I would've added one more twist at the end of Equilibrium, where Father was in fact alive and was letting the Bruce run things in his name to stay safe and whatnot. and when Our Hero is about to slay the Bruce, Father shows up and ur Hero has to save him from the Bruce, who's pissed at having been used.
After that, I'm still working on how I would have ultimately ended it. Very few movies do I see where I woudn't change a thing. So the fact that I was only bothered by that little bit is impressive to me. For instance, I completely deconstructed Nemesis and made it a better script in about three minutes.
--Jonah
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
"Captain's Log: detected a positronic signal on a planet while on course to Betazed. It didn't seem to be going anywhere so we've decided to investigate at a later date. Continued on to our destination, which meant we missed out on a chance of a diplomatic mission to Romulus, no longer being the only/closest ship in range - for once! Will and Deanna got married and lived happily ever after. The End. PS: Data's being a real pain as Exec, maybe I should have picked Bondage Guy from Desperate Houseives after all."
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
quote:The Starlost Set in the year 2790 A.D., The Starlost was set in the interior of a giant space ark that had escaped a now-dead Earth. The vessel drifted through space, out of control. The crew that controlled the vessel had been killed in an accident five hundred years earlier. The disaster caused the airlocks connecting the ship's sections to secure, cutting off the residents in each of the domed areas. Cut off from the outside, many of these sub-communities forgot they were on a spacecraft and accepted that their world was a mere 50 miles wide with a sky made of metal. Being content with their new lives, few knew that their lives were in intense danger. The ark was on a collusion course with the sun.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Now that sounds like a hell of a concept for a show. I can imagine exactly how it all went pear-shaped just from reading the link (and the Wikientry).
. . . Of course, the reality probably was that the show became/was intended to be yet another "travelling from place to place" show as they investigate a different dome each week. Like the Hulk TV show, Kung Fu, early SG-1, and many others. . .
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Besides, it's an ancient concept, of people discovering their world is a ship or dome or something outside of which (which is invariably "forbidden territory" for their culture) lies the truth. They've been doing it for decades - I can think of at least three instances where the same idea was used on 1940s pulp SF radio shows.
That, and I remember watching Starlost in the early 80s. It was marginally fun seeing our medeival hero learning how to use a spacesuit to repair something on the outside fo the ship, but after that...
Mark
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Shit! That reminds me of one that fits!
The Valley Forge (& associated sisters Berkshire & Sequoia) from Silent Running.
More shots here, more film info & ship names here.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
MOVIE SIGN!!!
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: Shit! That reminds me of one that fits!
Ah ha! Of course! Well done. I wonder if that was the other one I couldn't remember.
Nim, I don't think the Starship troopers ships count in the same way that, for instance, the Sulaco from Alien doesn't count. It's long, but it's heavily built up, mostly in an effort to suggest a space going version of contemporary naval vessels, particularly with the redundant looking crane in the middle. The idea behind the engine layout is nice though. Thrust vectoring doesn't get much better than pointing the whole engine! Reminds me of azimuthing podded propulsors on ships.
One thing I've noticed is that "ships with a long bit in the middle" tend more towards the more believable, real physics end of the spectrum in many cases. Perhaps that's part of their appeal. They look achievable. I don't think anyone really imagines that we'll ever be flying around in a giant mutant tadpole one day (TNG Enterprise or Voyager, take your pick).
Peregrinus, I know what you mean. After I wasted an hour and half of my life on the remake of Planet of the Apes I spent the time as the credits rolled by rewriting the whole thing and it wasn't half bad, if I do say so myself! ;-)
btw does anyone know of a decent picture of Buck Rogers Searcher? Google isn't delivering the goods.
Ships with a long thing eh? Hmm, the only ship I can think of that hasn't been posted yet is the Xiytiar transport from the X-Wing Alliance game.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
There's the Dreadnought too.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
May have another for you. The Proteus from the Lost In Space movie of 1998. Seemed to be very Discovery-esque. I don't recall seeing a clear long distance shot of the ship in profile, but there was a tracking shot as the Jupiter 2 zoomed to safety. I just did a cursory Google image search to no avail, but if completeness is what you crave, it bears consideration. (Can't condone anyone sitting through the film, however)
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Two words, Balaam -- "Lacey. Chabert." Woot. And of course Gary Oldman always rocks as a scenery-chewing, over-emoting villain, but i mainly watch it for the chicks.
--Jonah
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Here we go again with the friggin barely legals. The flare forum is stuck in a Tyken's Rift of lechery. I don't want to contemplate who or what we need to explode to shake loose, but if we don't then by the end of the year we'll be a squirming, writhing mound of biomass, blacklisted and unable to get gigs in this town again.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I liked the Lost in Space movie.
For that matter, I liked Fantastic Four, too. Both aren't high-brow drama, but they were fun movies.
TPTB should have left the Bird of Prey and Kruge as Romulan villians (and equipment) as originally envisioned for Star Trek III. Klingons and cloaking device don't mix. Klingons are warriors, they don't go sneaking around cloaked. It's cowardly, all this hiding.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Here we go again with the friggin barely legals. The flare forum is stuck in a Tyken's Rift of lechery. I don't want to contemplate who or what we need to explode to shake loose, but if we don't then by the end of the year we'll be a squirming, writhing mound of biomass, blacklisted and unable to get gigs in this town again.
Plus one of us might end up on Dateline NBC.
Lost in Space wasn't bad, it just wasn't really a thinking man's movie.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
It is true, yes, that anyone who would overlook the splendiferousness of Heather Graham (and, indeed, Mimi Rogers), in favour of the prepubescent Chabert, is a potential nonce and would bear watching.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Ooops.... posted the reply about the cloak in the wrong topic....
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Watch it, Lee. She was, like, 16 when she did LiS. And I was trying for subtle ironic humour based on our Foley discussion elsewhere. I thought you European types did irony...
--Jonah
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
(FYI one major issue with LiS is those hibernation suits (or whatever) made the breasts of the girls with boobs (i.e. Mimi and Heather) look all wonky)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I was going to point out that 16 is neither prepubescent, nor legal (barely or otherwise) in most of the US. However, I decided I ought to fact-check that, and it turns out that it is legal in most of the US. So, I guess... rock on?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
"I mainly watch it for the chicks". Damn but it is subtle.
Tis as if upon reading it, I was layne on a bed of goslings' down, fleeting and floating into the great beyond, then gently dropped off at the shore of lake irony, whose singlemost drops I could scarcely taste without instantly being gripped by the fiercest lockjaw. I then stripped down to my barest bones, proceeding to scrub every inch of my body with the wet sand encircling the shore, that I may shed myself at last of this antiquated humour mastering my countenance, in the hopes I could one day grasp but the barest iota of the spring steel irony making out the gist of Peregrinus' post - signed, as it was, Orbo Novo.
- How about the Saratoga from "S:AaB", Lurker? It's long and I'll be damned if the middle isn't long as well.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Wow. I've been zinged. I'm going to slink off and lick my wounds now...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
And I was trying for subtle ironic humour based on our Foley discussion elsewhere. I thought you European types did irony...