Seemed slow-paced but full of exposition, which is fine with me. We know now for certain that Claire can regenerate limbs; that HRG explained everything to his family (or at least the mom - we haven't seen the son around while they talk about secret stuff [or while Claire dips her hands into boiling water]); and that Angela and Kaito used to sleep together (o_O;.
Also, two more duplicate abilities - the healer in Mexico had a duplicate of Parkman's, and we find that Takezo Kensei had a duplicate of Claire's. I wonder if there's rhyme or reason to the descendancy? I mean, Flight + Pyrokinesis doesn't seem to equal tissue regeneration...
*snap* Almost forgot - Peter can throw blue bolts of... plasma?? I thought at first it was TK until I remembered that there's no visual effect for TK in Heroes (I was reminded when he used it on Thug #2's rifle before he punched him). Is that perhaps from Sprague? But if it's radiation, it should be causing cancer, not throwing people about. Maybe he got it from Sylar and I just don't remember? And how is he using these powers without being aware of it? I thought he had to recall the person he 'learned' ("Kirby'd" might be a better term ;P) it from...or maybe that's just until he gets it down? Or it was just a sort of mental aid to focus?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
There is some issue with abilities being exactly the same from person to person, being based on an individual's own DNA. Perhaps West doesn't fly in the sense of Nathan's anti-gravity, but more like magnetic levitation like Magneto? Also, Kensei doesn't seem to regenerate as much as ressurect ("Try again next time around" he said, or something to that effect). Kensei actually died and then came back. Only time Claire hasn't immediately regenerated is when she had that stick in her brain.
And about Peter, it always seemed he needs to think about the person to use the ability. Maybe now, seeing as he doesn't remember the people, he has to think about what it is he wants to do, and if he has an ability to do that thing, he can do it. So, he wanted to get out of the ropes, and his body "remembered" DL and he phased through them. As for what these blue balls are, I'm not entirely sure but he was using the same stuff in "Five Years Gone" in his battle with Sylar... So maybe its a refined, distilled form of Ted's radiation? Or closer to the EMP Ted used to escape...?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
About the Mexican healer, I thought her power was the ability to detect diseases in other people's bodies. I don't think she could read minds like Parkman. Also the creepy kid who likes Claire, I think his flying might be the result of his ability to manipulate the weather/atmosphere. At least thats what I thought when I saw him hovering during the storm in the first episode. Maybe he's like Storm from X-Men.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Now *that* would be a kickass power.
Mexican healer woman again - Hmm, you may be right...it's just the visual effects and sounds seemed similar to when Parkman is trying to read a mind - the jumps and sort of 'humming' noises. Maybe she even *is* a healer, some watered-down form of Linderman who can cure diseases but not mend tissue. (Getting pretty far-fetched here, I know.)
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I remember one of the graphic novels involving future Peter showed him gaining the electrical power, but nothing in "our" timeline. I suppose we just have to assume that he got it from Sylar or from someone he met before having his memory wiped, his clothes nicked and getting tied up in a shipping container?
This week upped the tempo a little, but I have to say I was a bit disappointed that the storyline with Hiro and Takezo panned out in the way we all predicted. Hopefully they're just using that to make us feel settled before doing something unexpected. Takezo's power certainly backs up the theory that he could be the big bad in Molly's nightmares. Presumably he wouldn't succumb to illness, as well as arrow hits? So he could still be alive and kicking in the present day.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think the woman who met the two kids was anything other than a little extra spookum, though, to push their anxiety along. I didn't get the impression that she necessarily had any "real" power.
I thought I read somewhere that they were going to be repeating powers. (How's that for definitive?)
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Sol: I wouldn't know about that; the sound effect used was the same for Parkman's telepathy.
MNW: The graphic novel for the premiere seems to suggest it's pure flight, like Nathan's.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
*points to HopefulNebula* See? So there. ;P
Anyway, I like the fact of repeated powers. Makes it feel a little less like X-Men.
And Johnny, I'm not sure I follow you. Why does Takezo's healing/resurrecting (whichever, see my comment below) have to do with Molly's nightmares? And illness isn't the only thing that kills you; there is such a thing as old age. Telomeres shorten, transcription errors are made, glial cells go stellate. The body wears down then shuts down.
So about Takezo's power; I still think it's a duplicate of Claire's. I know he died and *then* healed, but I'm willing to chalk it up to dramatic license. Or, that could have been the first time he ever manifested. I did catch a comment about 'next time around' but I rather thought he was talking about a belief in reincarnation...that could be personal bias though.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well it kinda sucks that some people share the same power, though I guess from a creative standpoint it makes sense as you don't want to run out of ideas for powers.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
^ There'd probably be people saying "how come everyone has a different power?" if there weren't any repetitions.
Oh, the other reason I think Takezo might be in Molly's nightmares is because the voice that Parkman heard while she was asleep in Four Months Later sounded a bit like him. It could be someone completely different though. And yes, people die of old age. I suppose I consider that an illness of sorts, since it involves the degeneration of the body.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Then it begs the question of whether Claire and Takezo are immortal, seeing that they can't seem to die. Yeah I know that if something is stuck in Claire's body than she can't regenerate, but still it's not quite the same as dying and staying dead.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yes, but aging is not a 'disease' or 'injury'; it might seem so, but it's a programmed degradation combined with simple entropic decay of genetic information. Lifeforms are designed to die; if they weren't, entropy and statistics would demand errors in new cells, causing malfunctioning tissues. It might take a very very long time, but it would happen.
What I really wonder is how long Claire can have something stuck in her brain. Her autopsy had already begun in that episode which would indicate the medical examiner didn't find a pulse or any other reason to believe she was alive. So, her cells can survive without oxygen for an extended period of time which would indicate she has a *massively* changed biochemistry which should preclude her breeding at all. Unless we invoke some weird concept like "she has an energy field which reverses the death and decay of the cells before repairing the tissues" or some equally fantastic notion.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
None of their powers makes any sense, so I wouldn't worry too much.
As for ageing, the way I understood it was that over time, repeated cell duplication leads to degradation as small errors begin to creep in and compound as time goes on. Though I take issue with the word "designed", lets not open that particular can of worms. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Apparently, though, it's not so much the lack of oxygen that kills your cells ; it's the re�ntroduction of oxygen after they've been deprived.
What this means in terms of Claire's whack biology, I don't know. Just saying.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Reverend: I didn't mean to suggest anything like intelligent design. I just meant that evolution produced lifeforms which are "supposed" to die; if living things didn't die, there would be no next generation, thus defeating the entire process and ensuring evolution would never exist
TSN: Good point; that is more accurate. Although I think the lack of oxygen for a certain prolonged period of time would lead to decay and death, because without the cell receiving energy to carry out cellular processes, all those lovely macromolecules and chemical structures would start to break down through unregulated chemical reactions (only to a point; some molecules are perfectly stable)...but more importantly little nasty buggers would start to eat them. Bacteria, protists, fungi. No immune system, no proteins actively defending the membrane, so on and so forth. But it is a good point - maybe she has some biochemical trick that prevents the reintroduction of oxygen from doing its nasty work. Maybe her body has massive amounts of antioxidants or something.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Sorry for double post; it's past editing time. I just remembered a really good novel by Dean Koontz; the title is slipping my mind at the mo' but it dealt partially with something called reanimation medicine, which is reviving people who are clinically dead. A big theme of this was the reintroduction of oxygen and free radicals causing major damage to the brain and other body tissues, and the chemical cocktails introduced to prevent that damage (antioxidants and free-radical scavengers, including synthetic compounds and natural vitamins like C and E). Of course there was also a pretty cool 'horror' (I prefer to think of it as fantasy) overtone to the whole thing, but I won't spoil the book for you (if you ever figure out the damn name, that is).
Anyway, all this makes me wonder if breathing oxygen actually helps the aging process along.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Reverend: I didn't mean to suggest anything like intelligent design. I just meant that evolution produced lifeforms which are "supposed" to die; if living things didn't die, there would be no next generation, thus defeating the entire process and ensuring evolution would never exist
Well that is one of THE questions of biology. The way I tend to look at it, ageing is not so much an evolutionary adaption (or choice, depending how you look at it) but just a by-product of the inherently imperfect nature of passing information along. The cellular equivalent of Chinese Whispers, if you will. Of course I could be utterly wrong, I'm not a biologist.
Of course being biologically immortal is a problem to evolution, though not necessarily a terminal one since there's always starvation and predators to keep the older generations in check. In fact I think some microscopic creatures are technically immortal.
In the case of Claire, I'm not sure if she's immortal or not since she is ageing seemingly normally. Perhaps the effect of her regeneration is cumulative, the more she's injured, the slower she ages. Like a callus but on a more basic cellular level. On the other hand it could be the other way around. What if repeatedly regenerating accelerates the process of cellular DNA damage?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I think we're engaging in a typical mistake: Simplification. Aging is probably a combination of everything we're blabbing about from Chinese Whispers and entropy to 'design' to probably something else as well.
And I hope we'll find out more about Claire and Takezo...and again, if there's any logic to the descendancy patterns of these 'abilities.'
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...if living things didn't die, there would be no next generation, thus defeating the entire process and ensuring evolution would never exist"
I don't think that's true. That would only happen in a species that's self-aware enough to think something like "hey, I'm going to live forever ; what do I need kids for?". And, even then, that would only happen in a fraction of the population. Basically, in most species, whether they age or not, the reproductive instinct would still be there. If they didn't die of old age, you'd just end up with a very rapidly increasing population.
Anyway, back to the show, here's something to ponder : if Claire were beheaded, would her body grow a new head, or would her head grow a new body?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well I would have to say body grows a new head, considering that when she cut her toe off, she grew a new one while the old toe did not seem to grow a new Claire. Or did it? (Dun Dun Dun)
Maybe beheading could be her only weakness?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I would have to say that beheading her would be just about the only way to kill her. We know that without the brain intact the body won't regenerate. And without the body attached to the brain, there'd be no blood or oxygen flowing to the brain, so...
Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
Was it that Claire would stay dead if something was lodged in any part of her brain, or just a certain spot? As Peter said to Claire that she "knew the spot" were to shoot him in case he went critical mass. Plus if I remember rightly, from the times Peter and Claire "died" they had things pushed into their brain's somewhere behind the ear, although I'd have to rewatch the episodes to see if that's true.
If beheading is the only way to truly "kill" Claire, where is the line between a blow is a killing one and one from which she would recover? If she were bisected from armpit to armpit would she really die? Or if she were cut in half just below her sternum would she live? What if you cut her exactly in half from head to pelvis? As you can see, if I was mad-scientist type in Hereos-verse I'd have lots of fun experimenting on her! Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Which is exactly what her daddy was warning her about in this episode But ... yeah... I've actually thought about this subject prior to heroes (human regeneration). It may be that there is a *reason* that only radially symmetric animals can truly regenerate; lizards etc can do limbs or a tail, but they can't regrow organs as far as I know. A limb is, after all, just bone and muscle and skin; nothing highly specialized, in other words. But if you COULD regrow everything...I think bisecting someone down the middle would probably kill them. (Or, just possibly, they'd both regrow into a new person - and I'm making my prediction here and now that at some point during Heroes' run, we're going to have a situation just like this with Claire, or maybe Takezo.)
And once again going off topic, in reply to TSN: I don 't think a species would develop the desire to reproduce if it never evolved in the first place. BUT, I guess DNA was the first thing to self-replicate, not a whole organism, so reproduction might be the 'base code' of life and override anything else that might come along. So, in other words, good point, my mind has been changed.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Well, my question then in the 'original' timeline, when Sylar took Claire's abilities, did he seperate the brain from the body? Otherwise she'd have started regenerating and she was obviously dead in that timeline.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I still think Syler ate the brains.
Yes, it does beg the question as to what part grows back where. If Claire were split in half, would both halves grow the missing pieces and thus clone her?
I do like the point mentioned above that these are the questions the Company would have.
In real life sometimes things get lodged in the brain or shot in the brain and the person lives. There have been cases where someone with a mental illness goes to commit suicide, shoots themselves in the head but survives and destroys the diseased portion of the brain that caused the mental illness in the first place.
So a head would can be non-fatal.
But with the stick in Claire's head, it was fatal only as long as something was in the way of the regeneration (the stick).
Perhaps Kensei is the same way. Hiro pulled out some arrows before Kensei started to regenerate. As long as the arrows (or sticks) are preventing the regeneration, he'll stay dead.
Powers are going to appear to be duplicates until it's explained HOW the power works. Magneto's flight vs. some other form of flight.
On the other hand, Magneto's flight is a power stunt, a by-product of his power of magnetic control.
With all the home-schooling options available, why is Claire enrolled in a public school? Wouldn't it have been safer to have her be home-schooled? Of course, that limits the plot/story line and makes for some pretty boring segments.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Not to mention we don't know if she point-blank refused that with vigor and spite.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: In real life sometimes things get lodged in the brain or shot in the brain and the person lives. There have been cases where someone with a mental illness goes to commit suicide, shoots themselves in the head but survives and destroys the diseased portion of the brain that caused the mental illness in the first place.
Been watching Fight Club? *heh*
--Jonah
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I am Herbshrump's raging bile duct.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Been watching Fight Club? *heh*
--Jonah
Guy with a dual personality who can really kick ass and can apparently survive a headshot, not to mention convince hundreds of normal people to become faceless terrorists.... Hey! Peter Petrelli must finish up and use Hiro's powers to go back in time and star in Fight Club!
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: I am Herbshrump's raging bile duct.
My gorge also rises?
Actually, I've never seen Fight Club. There was some news article I'd read where someone shot themselves in the head and lived.
Loved this episode - "GET OUT OF MY HEAD!" I think Angela Patrelli is going to be quite scarey and have some full-on 'gift'.
If Claire gets in trouble next week - it's SO not fair - that guy was hanging outside her window - like she said it was just her and Mr. Muggles. The dog watching the TV show was cute... is that it's power?? Watching TV?
Suresh and Parkman - hehehehe it's like they are in a relationship and they adopted Molly.
The Haitian doesn't seem to have the necklace anymore - maybe there is only one and Peter now has it.
Isaac Mendez is still in it - sort of! HGM's wife seems to be pretty OK with it all. Where is the brother? The teacher in the biology class was VERY annoying.
Kaito/Sulu didn't survive then? Will we ever find out his power?
Notice the lights flickering when Angela Patrelli was attacked... hmmmm it's not "Bob" from Twin Peaks is it??
Wasn't Matt Parkman in the square when Peter and Nathan went up, up and away?? Oh maybe he was injured by then for Patrelli to recognise him.
I wonder what happened to the FBI chick who was working on the Sylar case?
Are Maya and Alajendro the source of the virus??
Who did Peter get the spark from? Did he also absorb all of Sylar's powers? What about the super-hearing and the ability to blend into shadows and the ability to melt substances or to learn things very quickly or freeze things? Has Peter met 'hero' so far?
Ando was looking pretty cool in his trench-coat - looking pretty official.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
We discussed the 'spark' a bit further up the thread, but we don't really have much info to go on.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Has Peter met 'hero' so far?"
If, by "'hero'", you mean "Hiro", then yes, he met Alternate Future Hiro who came back in time and talked to him on the subway.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Not to mention standing right by him in the plaza in the season finale.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Y'know I have NO idea what I meant by Has Peter met 'Hero' yet!?! Cause of course he has... so it makes no sense - even though it's at the end of a sentence where I said 'freeze things' - and by that I meant ice-freeze.
In my defence I finished watching it at about 1am and typed that then - and promptly fell asleep infront of the computer until 7 the next morning. NOT good for the neck.
What the hell did I mean?? Hmmm maybe I mean 'Sulu'? or 'Kaito'? I have no idea. LOL! Hey why is my reflection moving independent of me!?!
What is this talk of duplicating powers??
Is it possible that Kensai is an ancestor of Claire's?? And why is it that he's supposed to be Molly's Bad Man? Where have they even hinted at that?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I doubt that this new evil villain is an alternate personality of Peter. Molly seems to indicate that she's seen this person in the past long before she met our "Heroes". While the ending of the last episode would indicate he has Jessica/Nikki's power, I doubt he's the one committing the killings.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Andrew: West can fly like Nathan; Takezo can heal like Claire. Duplicate powers, as in, they're the same; up until now everyone's was unique.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well they are generationally duplicated.
I've got a Star Wars twist here - what if West is another illegitimate child of Nathan Patrelli's??
I reckon Kensai is a distant relative of Claire's.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
We've seen no evidence they're generationally duplicated. In fact that's something I've brought up more than once; how do a pyrokinetic and a man with the power of flight produce a child with tissue regeneration? Where's the logic in who gets what ability?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:I've got a Star Wars twist here - what if West is another illegitimate child of Nathan Patrelli's??
And he just happens to be living in the same town that Claire is hiding in? Right.
So far as I can tell there's no pattern to the powers. Claire is a healer, sired by a pyrokinetic and a flyer (telekinetic?) with a power-stealer for a brother. Indeed, the fact that Peter can copy powers at all suggests they're all tied together somehow as if it's all the same power (mind over matter?) and it's just random how an individual manifests that ability.
I might also add that their was mention of duplicate powers at somepoint in season 1. I forget what exactly, but I think it was the Chris Eccelson flashback episode. At least it was implied by refering to someone as if they were already familiar with that power. It's been a while, so can't be more specific.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Peter is Claire's Uncle, not brother.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
*paws at his head* I'm having awful incest images, make them stop!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Reverend's sentence was a little ambiguous, bu you could read "with a power-stealer for a brother" as modifying "flyer".
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Hey you could. I'm'n'a go feel sheepish.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Oh I get it now. You sicko.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Yah, Claude made it clear he's dealt with someone with Peter's ability before.
I think I've figured Peter's memory loss out, though. See that necklace that he's wearing? See what necklace the Haitian isn't wearing? Awfully convenient that Peter would be having memory problems...
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
If the Haitian could imbue the necklace with his power... that'd be a neat trick. Peter seems to be capable of remembering who he is with proper prompting. When the Haitian is through with people, they don't remember anything, and usually can't recall memories either.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Heh. I was thinking more along the lines of either the Haitian wiping Peter's memory (but it not taking all the way because of Peter's ability -- this fits in with all the Haitian's talk of doing unforgivable things) or just meeting him, and Peter Kirbys the ability and it backfires.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Or taking his memory for some purpose we don't yet know, with Peter's ... is complition a word? I doubt it. I'm trying to say, that Peter was complicit in the removal of his memories lol. Perhaps the necklace, and maybe even the box, are supposed to be clues to help him start remembering again. I guess I'm still just holding out for another "did not see that coming" under-plot in this season.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
The word you're lookign for is "complicity".
--Jonah
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Wow. I'm having a really bad week of it for feeling stupid, lemme tell you.
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Will we ever find out his power?![[Smile]](smile.gif)