quote:

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Originally posted by Mars Needs Women:
Also I think Cally might die tonight.

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You can now say "I told you so."
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
I told you so.

PS:Do they have phasers in that weapons locker?
 

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Suspicious! I was wondering about that.

Also, Cylon Civil War! Intriguing.
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
Yeah the plot thickens!
 

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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
I got a laugh out of the storage locker.

Kind of a short lived civil war.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Awww no. Noooo. I frakkin liked Cally. She was so cute. And a smack to the face that sent her cartwheeling like that should have snapped her neck like a twig and shattered her jaw. Which raises another question - if the Chief's been a Cylon all along then how come when he was pummeling the everfucking shit out of her head, he didn't just turn it into thick orange paste? I mean a normal human could break her face and jaw like that; a humanoid Cylon should've really ... well, killed her. MAYBE SHE'S A CYLON TOO AND THAT'S HOW SHE COULD SURVIVE BOTH HITS!! *cough*

I liked 1701D too.

I bet the Sixes et al. aren't quite out of the running yet. They only showed one basestar being destroyed before they cut away.

OK so maybe the Final Five are evil after all. Maybe the reason the other Seven purposefully forgot about them was that they were *too* evil and killed the hell out of the other Cylons too. Or, maybe they were *really* deep 'sleepers' -- so deep they didn't know until long after the attack and the other Cylons made it taboo to even think about them. Deep, deep cover in other words. Might help explain why Six said she was programmed not to think about them and yet seemed perfectly capable of doing so - and so did Three, obviously. And the rest of them are talking about them out loud at this point. Maybe the memories have been triggered to begin coming to the surface now that the sleepers are awake.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 

"Which raises another question - if the Chief's been a Cylon all along then how come when he was pummeling the everfucking shit out of her head, he didn't just turn it into thick orange paste?"

Presumably, the Penultimate Four did not have access to their superpowers until they realized they were Cylons. Otherwise, it seems like they would have noticed before that they were superstrong, etc.
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Boomer never engaged in any feats of strength (though I think she may have aired a few grievances?) prior to her awakening either. On camera, anyway.

I am sure bummed about Cally. But I loved that final shot of Tyrol and Adama sitting there. And I wonder how Tigh will approach another man whose wife was sacrificed for A Cause. (Though I guess Tori may not bother telling him and/or Anders, if they ever see each other again. Why should she, in fact? Still, it is a dynamic I'd like to see.)
 

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Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
 
Also, did anyone notice the rank change? Anders is an Ensign apparently, but NuBSG has been running on non-naval ranks for as far as I can remember...
 

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Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
 
In the painting Starbuck was working on, did anyone else think that the trinary stars bore more than a little resemblance to the Ships of Light from the original series?
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
Those cocky Centurions are up to no good, I tell you! The dusting Cylon-maid was not amused!

This episode was just so good! I love Cottle and Zarek. Cally was pretty good too, and it was a surprise to see Tory 'go Cylon'.

So it appears what we saw last week only occured on one Basestar, and spread out to a handful of fellow Basestars shortly after. What I didn't really understand was if the split was between basestars or between the models.. Are there still Sixes on Cavil's Basestar, or how does that work?

I did find it hard to believe Adama could afford to lose 4 (or more) of their top Viper pilots and the CAG to Kara's mission. With Lee on the Quorum, who is the CAG now?
 

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Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
Appropriate that Starbuck now has a Moby Dick obsession.

Did Tori kill Kalli primarily to keep the secret or was that just a bonus?

I'm just a simple 21st century human yet I could smell the setup as soon as Cavil suggested unboxing D'eanna. Why couldn't the others figure it out? I'm agreeing with the assessment that this civil war isn't over. Perhaps it was just one basestar. That makes sense in light of what we talked about last week. The Sixes and their group were only one one basestar and their "rebellion" hadn't spread to the rest of the fleet yet.

::shrugs:: dunno. Not like they'll kill off all the other Cylons though. Not yet.

Unless there is some miracle to their resurrection, Kalli isn't one of the final 5. On the other hand, had she been a Cylon that would have taken care of Hera no longer being the only hybrid baby.

There was discussion last week about Tigh and Tyrol's memories. The key is finding someone that knew these people their whole lives. Can we find anyone that knows or remembers Tyrol or Tigh as children? Are their parents or families still alive?

Otherwise Tigh and Tyrol's memories of childhood and growing up are simply imiplanted. Someone else's memories.

Which brings us back to the Eye of Jupiter. Why did Tyrol get programmed with that memory?
 

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Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Krenim:
In the painting Starbuck was working on, did anyone else think that the trinary stars bore more than a little resemblance to the Ships of Light from the original series?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ritten:
No one has has mentioned the look on Anders face when Starbuck was saying how she feels so disconnected from herself now. He knows exactly how she feels.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Reverend:
Don't know if anyone spotted it, but they Cylon ambush took place less than 26 light years from Earth. If you look at the star field, you can clearly see Orion and the nearest star of that constellation to Earth is Pi3 Orionis. I'd say that at most they're only 15-20 light years away.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
No, the reason they're looking for the trinary star is because it's a bit less common, and thus (hopefully) easier to find. And for those who might have forgotten, Alpha Centauri is a trinary. Closer and closer we get...

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I wasn't talking about the reason they're looking for it, just half remembering some article on exo-planets and how a gas giant in a trinary system is unlikely. Perhaps I am misremembering. Given that the comet's tail wasn't pointing away from either of the three stars, I think they're taking quite a bit of licence. So it probably was Proxima...then perhaps it wasn't really a comet...
Though yes, the thought that it could be the Alpha Centauri A-B/Proxima system did occur to me.
Though in reality, assuming the comet & planet were orbiting Proxima, I don't think A&B Centauri would be that big in the sky. In fact they'd probably look like just one rather bright star, or dim sun. Though it depends on how authentic a picture the effects team are going for.
[EDIT]
Something that just occurred to me about the Hybrid-Prime's line about Kara being the "Herald of the Apocalypse". Apocalypse really just means "lifting of the veil", that is in Biblical terms the revelation of God's Will (hence book of Revelations) so perhaps in true prophetic fashion, perhaps that statement is a little more misleading that it appears. It's just the modern perception that closely associates Apocalypse with nukes, knives and sharp sticks.
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
I was at Comicon today and Rekha Sharma, Michael Trucco, and Michael Hogan were there. Many fans gave Sharma flak due to her character's actions in last nights episode. Though at least one fan thanked her for killing his least favorite character; he was booed.
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 

quote:

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I wasn't talking about the reason they're looking for it, just half remembering some article on exo-planets and how a gas giant in a trinary system is unlikely

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quote:

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Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
Oh, right. Well, I don't think that's necessarily an overall rule. In the afore-linked Wikipedia article, it mentions that it's unlikely for gas giants to have formed in the A.C. system in the same fashion that they formed around Sol, because the two stars approach to within 11 AU of each other. Therefore, any planet that orbited beyond 5 AU or so from either star would likely be swallowed by one star or the other.

If there were instead a trinary system where the stars were very widely separated, then it would be an entirely different story.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hybrid_utterances

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quote:

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Originally written for a Hybrid:
Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.

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To which end? The herald and harbinger for whom?

Now that she is on the hunt for the return path to earth I am wondering more about that.
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I'm disappointed. We keep saying "they're not going to do so-and-so, it's too obvious" but what happewned in this ep seemed really quite obvious - or rather the word is, easy.

First off, I agree that maybe Cally having to deal with the reality of her husband's identity over a longer period wouild be more interesting. But as someone said, they're probably preferring to do that between Starbuck and Anders - but that pales next to the real biggie, Adama discovering his closest and oldest friend is what he's spent his whole adult life fighting.

Next, there's who they chose to use to be the Evil Final Four Member - the seductive temptress, so to speak. Why, she even look middle-eastern! Although I'm sure that wasn't a consideration, it's gonna tick a lot of boxes for the wingnut demographic (those that didn't leave in protest over the Abu Ghraib allusions, anyway). It couldn't be Anders because he's off panting after his ostensible wife, but can you imagine if the hand on that Eject button had been one of the two most popular second-tier characters in the show - Tigh, or even the Chief himself? Getting Tori to be the one is a cop-out.

While on the subject of obvious/easy, wouldn't anyone faced with what Cally had discovered try to warn the authorities? Or is her immediate course of action more realistic for someone in her mental state? Not even the tiniest little bit of internal dialogue about how the Admiral would never believe the Colonel or his Chief Engineer were Cylons, or the President would never believe her Chief-of-Staff was one?

I dunno, maybe it's just me. As my reaction in the past has shown, I'm very sensitive to children being in danger, and this also had a child losing its mother, a fear I've had to confront quite recently.

I wonder if Zarek manipulated Apollo into revealing that leaked report, so Roslin could then say that since it's now out in the open, they can now proceed with it? What is going on in her head?
 

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Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
 
Does anyone get the feeling like we're sometimes over-analyzing this deal? Shit-loads of good research, but I think someone was right in the fact that they're making things too obvious/easy.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Sometimes making the audience think something is too obvious is just another way of making them look the other way. Feints within feints and all that. It's ok, so long as it's not overused.
In this case they didn't cheat because they made it look like Cally was going to kill herself, then made it look like Tory was going to talk her down only to go 180 and flush her anyway. Which, I'll be honest, I didn't see coming. I should have, the signs were there that Tory has gone a little off centre but what I was half expecting was a repeat of Six's baby killing from the mini.
Unlike Lee I don't have children, but between my three brothers I have eight nephews & nieces which I see very regularly, so I am somewhat more distracted when a child is in peril. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I was actually expecting Tory to talk her down, take the baby, and lead her gently back to her quarters to talk shit over with the Chief. So much for my trusting nature ;P I wanted Cally to live too much, that's my excuse

The ProtoHybrid says "she will lead humanity to their end" which could either mean to Earth, the end of their journey, or do their destruction. Harbinger of doom for whom, Earth, the Colonials, or the Cylons (which Cylons, 7, 5, or all 12?)...I don't think we're going to get any answers out of it. I think it was designed to fit too many situations, kind of like Nostradamus Whatever happens will seem to fit the utterance.
 

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Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
 
on Macross World, someone made a comment comparing Apollo to JFK...

Thoughts?
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Well I think he was basically just saying he figured they were building up Lee to be a popular politician who would be killed. I don't know see how he matches up to JFK in any other ways. I somehow doubt they'd kill Apollo, Starbuck, or Adama though...I think they're OK because they were in the original and never died.

(...did they? I've only seen a couple repeats on local stations, never the whole thing.)
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
There is some symmetry in the nature of Cally's death: by keeping quiet about being saved by Jammer she doomed him to death by spacing, and has now been spaced herself. . .
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I don't recall her "keeping quiet" about it. She didn't even recognize him. It wasn't until Galen questioned her that she even remembered "somebody" had told her to run who "was probably" one of the humans.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
And it's not as if anyone asked her BEFORE they spaced Jammer.

One question though, how could there have been a window onto open space on the SIDE of the tube? I can think of at least three reasons why that shouldn't be there.
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
A key part of what happened is that she was released by a member of the NCP. If she'd told Tyrol about it at any point ever, then he'd have remembered it and when Jammer told him he released Cally he'd be able to put two and two together - just as he did when he heard Starbuck mocking Gaeta's dog bowl story.

Of course, I need hardly point out that Cally's death doesn't now preclude her being the Fynol Cylon. Especially since not one mention has been made by any of the Four that Nicky is at least a Hybrid just like Hera. And, the notion that two Cylons could breed successfully would have all kinds of ramifications. As I understand it, they can't breed, which is why they've been exploring Cylon-human hybridisation as the only way of producing viable offspring.
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
BASTARDS!
Cally was definitely one of my favorite characters. You know, I've got to stop liking characters. They keep getting killed! Not just this show, but many others as well (Stargate *especially*).

I liked Billy's character, too. He and Cally seemed to represent the "innocent" that's been thrust into the middle of all this. Now that they're both gone, I can't think of anyone else that could fit the bill.

Even though I liked Cally, when she was going toward the launch bay, I (like Lee) was a lot more worried about the baby, for many of the same reasons. Actually, at first, I though she was just going to space the baby, not commit suicide. I was right about her not reacting well to the news, though.

Oh, and about the crew on the Demetrius: As my wife says, "Who's watching the store?" I can think of reasons for each of them volunteering except for Gaeta. I think it was "strongly suggested" that he go along, probably because of his navigating skills, even though Starbuck isn't using them.

As for who will be CAG now, I think they should go with Pegasus' former CAG. He's still around, since he was in the pilots' lounge in the last episode.
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I wonder is a sewage-recycling ship the absolutely best choice of vehicle for a long-range reconnaisance? Although I loved the Vipers parked on the hull, it does seem to me there might have been a better choice. Unless all the more-habitable ships have plenty of refugees onboard and shuffling whole crews would have made the mission a lot less covert. . .

Gaeta's ther because he's a navigator. It's all very well for Starbuck to point the way, but someone will have to turn her directions into a usable course for the Fleet.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Lee:
I wonder is a sewage-recycling ship the absolutely best choice of vehicle for a long-range reconnaisance? Although I loved the Vipers parked on the hull, it does seem to me there might have been a better choice. Unless all the more-habitable ships have plenty of refugees onboard and shuffling whole crews would have made the mission a lot less covert. . .

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lee:
A key part of what happened is that she was released by a member of the NCP. If she'd told Tyrol about it at any point ever, then he'd have remembered it and when Jammer told him he released Cally he'd be able to put two and two together - just as he did when he heard Starbuck mocking Gaeta's dog bowl story.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Reverend:
And it's not as if anyone asked her BEFORE they spaced Jammer.

One question though, how could there have been a window onto open space on the SIDE of the tube? I can think of at least three reasons why that shouldn't be there.

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My viewing of the episode wasn't top quality, so I might've missed it, but were there any stars seen through the second window?

Though, whether it was supposed to go out into space or not, they fudged it. I've done an awful lot of research into the configuration of the bays as I've been making a CG model of them, and there shouldn't be a second window like that. Through the window you should see the launch control booth or the adjacent tube, depending on which tube you're in. I think they changed it for that particular shot so they could get a clear enough view of Cally's reflection, which might not have been possible if you could see the partially lit control booth, which is supposed to be there.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Lee: Er...so you're saying she deserved to die because she wasn't paying attention to the soldiers standing behind her while a firing squad of toasters lined up to kill her? Pardon me, but that's bollocks

Yeah, I saw stars. It was full of them.

It bugged me too. There's supposed to be a long-ass tube leading from the exterior doors to space proper. A window wouldn't physically work there; they were tens of meters away from the hull at *least.* Maybe it's some higher-dimensional buggery
 

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Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
 
Lets not forget the problems a tiny window that leads out to open space could cause to a Viper launch tube. If that thing gives, it could skrew up the entire launch process and cost live

(also, according to my calculations, that would be window numero dos that has ever been seen on board Galactica)
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Jesus wept. I'm not saying she deserved to die. I'm just pointing out a curious little bit of symmetry, that was probably unintentional, between her fate and that of a person who she MIGHT just have owed her survival to at one time, and who she MIGHT have been able to save herself, if only she hadn't been so terminally vague about, well, everything!
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Ah. Irony.
 

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Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
 
Come to think of it, if they don't have a little red light above a panel that says "someone's opened a bloody airlock!", then surely they were only aware that Cally had been killed when they either picked her up on DRADIS (if it can pick up such small objects), or she bumped into another ship!
 

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Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
I want to know how Tori explains her role in all of it.

"I was just walking by..."
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
Actually, where did she and the baby go after that? I don't remember seeing her.
 

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Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
 
We don't know, so in the next episode we'll probably just hear that Nicky was found crying in a corridor somewhere. Tori can easily avoid incriminating herself.
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
Found something interesting on another forum about the makeup of the Demetrius' crew.

We've got Starbuck (command), Gaeta (navigator), Helo & Athena (Raptor pilots), and the Viper pilots Anders, Seelix, Pike, and the unnamed tattooed pilot. The tattooed pilot has been there since the miniseries, and Pike was first seen during the liberation of New Caprica.

Now at first, I thought there were only two Vipers on deck, but someone pointed out that there are *four* Vipers and a Raptor, which accounts for all the pilots. Check out these screencaps:
These are the two Vipers everyone saw.
There are two more closer to the bow, and you can just barely see their back end here.
Here's the Raptor attached to what looks like an airlock.

Not really all that big of a revelation, but it's nice to know they've actually thought the crew & VFX through.
 

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Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
 
Maybe she gave the baby up to the cult and Baltar ...
 

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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Perhaps smokin' Doc has the child under observation after such an experience? After all, mommy jumped out a Viper tube, did she hurt the baby before hand?
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
But if they found Nicky abandoned, I think that should tip off the Chief that something was wrong (i.e. it wasn't suicide). After all, most people wouldn't leave their kids in some random location like that.

Speaking of kids, if Helo and Athena are on the Demetrius, then who's babysitting Hera? Not Roslin, I hope...
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
^EEP! I don't know of *ANY* parent (the sane ones, anyway) that would go off without their very young child for several months. Okay, military service is a different situation, but this isn't exactly the same thing. One parent having to go off to serve is one thing, but not both! Not only is it not good for the child, but the parents would probably be a wreck after even a week of no contact.

You don't suppose Hera was in a crib tucked away in a corner?
 

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Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
 
Taking a baby on a dangerous voyage aboard a sewage ship with minimal defenses would be a pretty stupid thing to do, so you can bet that's exactly what Helo did.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Just out of interest, have we actually seen Helo in a Raptor since the Mini? I think he was along for the ride when Kara did her return trip to Caprica, but other than that I don't think the guy have been out on a mission in years.
 

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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Does the Caprica rescue mission count?
 

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Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
Having the baby on the Demetrius is no more dangerous than any other baby in the fleet NOT on the Galactica.

Did Helo and Athena get their child back? I'm not remembering that. Of course, it's not been featured since either...
 

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Rev: wasn't he flying a Raptor during the episode Kat died?
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I kinda got the impression he'd been promoted to a desk job.
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Well, he was the executive officer after Tigh (and presumably that one guy who was apparently third in command and showed up once or twice) retired to New Caprica, and as far as anyone on the show has ever said, he might still be. As far as I remember.
 

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Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Tigh came back, so he can't still be.
 

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Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by HerbShrump:
Having the baby on the Demetrius is no more dangerous than any other baby in the fleet NOT on the Galactica.

Did Helo and Athena get their child back? I'm not remembering that. Of course, it's not been featured since either...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sol System:
Well, he was the executive officer after Tigh (and presumably that one guy who was apparently third in command and showed up once or twice) retired to New Caprica, and as far as anyone on the show has ever said, he might still be. As far as I remember.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HerbShrump:
I got the impression Helo was "demoted" to third after Tigh.

RE: Caprica Six bringing back Hera. Oh yea. That's right.

I was thinking in general in regard the Demetrius. All the ships of the fleet are a target for Cylons. But you raise a valid point. They are nowhere near a Battlestar or a squadron of fighters for protection.

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