Discuss.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
So I guess we now have a Harvey-Ellen? Also, example #2 of the hot Cylon chick hooking up with the old dude.
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Is example #1 Boomer and Cavil... cuz yeah that is true if that's what you mean.
I guess then that Chief will be scrubbing some random refinery ship next episode?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think what he was doing was projecting in the way that the other cylons do, just at a subconscious level. It's an odd thing to focus on, but my favourite bit in this episode was actually seeing some activity on the landing deck, something I had wondered about since the mini.
I also liked how Baltar ranted on the gods of Kobol. He's right, Zeus was a serial rapist to say nothing of being incestuous and a child murderer. When you say it like that the human sacrifices on Kobol start to make more sense.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I dunno if Ellen was actually supposed to be a character, but rather just a projection (hallucination). I think that various Cylon tendencies are starting to come out in the Four... except that the irony is, they're also very Human reactions to their revelation. Which sheds a lot of light on some of the possible background to the reasoning for wiping out Humanity...
Tory's got the superiority complex, Tigh's started projecting, Tyrol is waxing philosophical, and Anders... well, I'm stumped. But do you see the pattern?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Anders is getting pussy whipped as usual, though I think his patience is wearing thin.
Almost forgot, for some reason I like the fact that Tigh isn't above changing a shitty nappy.
It's probably not the case but I'm wondering if Ellen was actually a six that just got old. There are after all some very real similarities between Saul and Baltar, so I can see how they'd both be attracted to the same kind of man.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well it would be interesting if that were the case, but it seems unlikely. Cylons resurrect already as adults and in the case Calvin, old men. Plus its only been 5 years in-universe. Hardly enough time to see aging, especially considering the skinjobs are always dying.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Though if Tigh is anything to go by, Cylons certainly do age. I hadn't thought about Ellen being an aged Six, but I really like that idea actually.
And I too liked the fact that we saw some activity on the flight pod, although the dopey landram driver who pulled out just as the raptor came crashing in ought to fired (if he survived). Maybe he can swap jobs with Tyrol?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
And, do we have proof that Six is an actual entity, in that she is seen (or rather, not) to manipulate Baltar physically in a way that he himself couldn't have done?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah that whole thing with picking up Baltar was creepy, especially since we don't know for sure what's going in his head.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Maybe it's all a dream. DUN DUN DUNN! I'd send a letter bomb to somebody if that were the case. Only not really. Don't hurt me, Mr. Dept. of Homeland Security.
It's funny to see that the flight deck activity and diaper-changing were also enjoyed by others.
I had a short-lived but powerful certainty that Tyrol was going to reveal himself as a Cylon in the bar. And Adama shows his prickishness again. It seems to me he's not really a great guy sometimes, and it clashes. He tells a guy, hey, I understand, your wife just killed herself and left you with the baby, then 2 seconds later he's saying shut the frak up with your pain, or I'll have to do something about it? Another example is the one the Chief brought up - you don't think she was a good woman or you wouldn't have threatened to put her against the bulkhead and shoot her to quell a strike. That was the instant I stopped liking Adama, by the way.
What did Baltar say to Lee when he half-hugged him? You do the work your gods something something, I can't catch it.
Tigh seen in a flashback did look younger (and Adama knew him then so we know he really existed back then) so maybe Cylons can age depending on how long they live between reboots.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Cylons are still flesh and blood so logically if they go without downloading then their cell division will eventually corrupt and age normally. Indeed, Saul even has hair once! I'm starting to wonder if Tigh wasn't the only one "built" as an adult form while the others were built as infants and they've all been naturally ageing over the the last 30-something years. So perhaps they did have parents after all, or at least foster or adopted parents.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Sometimes I play around with the idea that Tigh was built as a baby too, and has been aging since then. The Cylon *war* was 40 years ago, but we have no idea how long they 'served man' before 'they rebelled' after all.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well it's safe to say, given the events of Razor that they didn't develop skinjobs until after the war, so Tigh would have to have been built as a 20 year old, at least. Personally I like the idea that his consciousness was originally that of an old Centurion. Somehow it suits his personality.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I don't know that it's safe to say anything, given that the Final Five were entirely unknown even to the other Cylons. Also, how individual and sentient were the old Centurions? I mean, were they all mindless footsoldiers, or did they have sentient commanders, or were they all sentient individuals?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well the old Centurions did appear to be sentient, after all that one group in Razor apparently believed that the Hybrid dude was a god.
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
That Guardian Hybrid still comes to my mind... specifically what he said about the Final Five and how it all repeats again. It sounds like some temporal causality loop.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think it's more about repeating patterns. The cycle of time is a very old concept in quite a few ancient cultures. Though off the top of my head the only example I can think of is the Mayan Baktun calender.
As for the old Centurions, of course they were sapient, they were the ones rebelling after all. Plus there's a deleted scene where (ironically, in retrospect) Tigh relates a war story about how he was on a ship boarded by Centurions and remarks something to the effect that the way the fought, betrayed just how much they hated humanity. In retrospect perhaps the memory is a vestige of him being one of those very Centurions.
It dose help to account where all of his self hate comes from, even before he grooved on Bob Dylan.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
No, that scene was Adama describing to Tigh the last time that Galactica got boarded (in the first war, that is). That was where they split up and went to auxiliary fire control and secondary damage control stations.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No, defiantly Tigh. [LINK] Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: As for the old Centurions, of course they were sapient, they were the ones rebelling after all. Plus there's a deleted scene where (ironically, in retrospect) Tigh relates a war story about how he was on a ship boarded by Centurions and remarks something to the effect that the way the fought, betrayed just how much they hated humanity. In retrospect perhaps the memory is a vestige of him being one of those very Centurions.
I thought they carried on this theme quite well with the TOS centurion that Adama skydived with in the Razor web-episodes (I'm not saying webisodes!). I know some people thought the design didn't live up to the original, but I liked the way it had a bit of a "frown". To me, they really did look like they had a hatred for humanity, and I immediately thought back to Tigh's description.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Here's an idea: What if the Final Cylon is a character from the New Caprica series? The plot of the new show does revolve around a father who "resurrects" his dead daughter by building a robot with her memories.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Here's an idea: What if the Final Cylon is a character from the New Caprica series?
It's possible they might do that, but I think it would be an enormous cheat if they do! Ron Moore has said that he has left hints as to the identity of the final Cylon and I think it has to be someone from the series, known to the viewers since early on, for the payoff to be worth it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I agree. And it's what bugs me, because I feel like I should have spotted these hints.
It just feels like the revelation of the FC chould be this major thing, but there aren't any major characters it can possibly be. Various pronouncements have indicated that it's not Adama snr., Roslin or Thrace, nor anyone in the Last Supper image. I don't think it's Ellen Tigh anymore (after this week's ep anyway). My shortlist (in no particular order) runs: Cain, Seelix, Lee Adama, Dualla. And, yes, I'm aware it makes no sense.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Zak Adama? I mean it is POSSIBLE the last cylon is dead. As it stands it's a huge fluke that the four of them escaped the colonies at all (or is it!?!?!?) Anders especially since if it weren't for Kara he'd be dead for sure. We really don't know where Tory came from, I just assumed she was on Colonial one all along and if so, she's just as lucky to be there as they nearly got themselves nuked in the mini. The fact that Saul and Galen were serving on the same ship is a little bothersome...unless the CO picked him from bunch of candidates, but then what did Tyrol do to be assigned to an old bucket like Galactica? Maybe a sense of engineering nostalgia casued him to ask for reassignment...still there have been circumstances beyond their control in which any one or all of them could have died so odds are one of the five is dead. Perhaps it ties in with the reason the five somehow exist "between life and death".
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I've been wondering if the final five aren't incorporeal. Maybe the fabulous four haven't always been Cylons. Maybe they've just become... possessed. It would explain a lot, like how they would have survived and ended up where they are, and how they can apparently be older than the Cylons themselves. It would also fit well with the Harveys, making Harvey Six potentially the final cylon.
Time travel is also a possibility. Perhaps "all this has happened before" is a bit more literal than we expect. But somehow that wouldn't seem to fit with BSG's more realistic approach to sci-fi.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Neither would incorporeal AIs possessing people. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So, yeah, was James Callis on wires during his militant nonviolence thing? Because it sure looked like it, but people seem to be pretty evenly divided about that scene, re Magical Intervention vs. Fight Club Climax.
Also Tyrol's public freakout was pretty brutal.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(you know, emotionally)
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I'm not going to think about the wire thing. I refuse to. The whole Virtual Six thing just ... rnk. We'll find out eventually.
I hope. If we don't then heads will roll.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
We were never given any hints about the Fabulous Four before the Bob Dylan scene. Has Moore mentioned if this was a planned revelation or not?
The problem with the Final Cylon is indeed that there are basically no significant main characters left that could be a Cylon. Roslin, Baltar and Starbuck are all a bit odd, but it has been repeatedly said they are not Cylons, and it would be a bit of a cheat to make any of them a Cylon at this point.
The Final One is dead.. hmm. I vote for the baby Six kills in the miniseries Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: We were never given any hints about the Fabulous Four before the Bob Dylan scene.
Jimi Hendrix, you mean.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I don't think he does, no.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
There were a lot of versions of that song, no? And this was the Dylan one. But Hendrix did one too.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Dylan wrote it, and it's been covered many times. Arguably the most popular cover version is the Hendrix one.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Interestingly enough, the actor who plays Tigh said that he invited the other Three to his trailer cause he had the Dylan and Hendrix version of the song.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
The other three or the other Three? Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Bob Dylan originally did All Along the Watchtower, but the Hendrix version is consider the version of the song. It's the version I've had in my classic rock MP3 collection for years. I also have the one from BSG by Bear McCreary.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: We were never given any hints about the Fabulous Four before the Bob Dylan scene. Has Moore mentioned if this was a planned revelation or not?
The nearest to a clue I think we got was when Tyrol was worried he was a Cylon and irony of ironies, Cavil told him he couldn't be because he hadn't seen him at any of the Cylon meetings.
From everything I've heard, they didn't plan ahead who the "Fabulous Four" might be, but that seems to go against what we've heard about the final Cylon. We keep hearing that there have been clues all the way through the series to suggest the identity of the F5. Unless that means the final really is fundamentally different from the others and therefore needed to be set up from the start.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: The other three or the other Three?
The other three "we found out we're cylons" cylons Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The only clue I can think of is Tyrol being drawn the the temple of the five...but then Anders was right there on the planet too and not so much as a blip. I suppose Tigh's self hatred can be classed as a clue and having a Six lookalike for a wife, but I doubt it was planned from the start.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I don't really think she's a lookalike. I mean, aside from the hair color, I don't see a major resemblance.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Random thought: Since most of the fleet is still trying to identify the final five Cylons, it must really suck if you happen to be a pair of identical twins! Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Or God forbid, triplets. Hey, that's a hell of a good point though.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Sixes have been seen with a variety of hair colours and styles, none of which especially matched that of Ellen Tigh. I think it's just the fact that they both have blonde hair which they decided to exploit for this scene rather than any deeper meaning.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Maybe he can swap jobs with Tyrol?
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)