Haven't watched it yet, but hey, how often do I get to start the weekly thread? Ooh, looks like Leoben's back. Well, OK, he's not been gone, but I mean "back" as in "back annoying Starbuck." It's a tradition, or an old charter, or something.
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
He's annoying her or trying to be one of those things on her shoulder. Though killing Mathaias means that the writers intend to kill off as many secondary characters as they can get away with.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Notice how Leoben referred to Kara as an "angel"? I'd kinda suspected it was referring to her already, but now I'm sure:
quote:And then, they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning. � the first Hybrid
Yes, I know he later said that she would be leading Humanity to its destruction... but doesn't creation also follow destruction? As in, a new beginning?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...no I'm pretty sure creation comes first.
I'm wondering if Baltar is the angel. As for Mathaias, in a twisted way I'm glad it's her. That is if they're going to kill someone like this then it's better from the audience's perspective if it's someone we're already familiar with and not just some random redshirt.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: ...no I'm pretty sure creation comes first.
Literally speaking, perhaps, but I'm referring to the cycle of time myths, which the show has frequently hinted at being a part of. "All of this has happened before, and will happen again..." So I'm wondering if the show's going to end with something like the destruction of both Humanity and the Cylons, and the creation of something new.
Concerning Matthias, I agree completely. The person who got killed had to be someone that would up the emotional ante for Kara.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Good grief, how many more people are they going to cram into the Demetrius? Only 8 were shown to start with, but now it seems they've got about a dozen others in there, including Hotdog! Other than Racetrack and the former Pegasus CAG, I can't think of any pilots left on Galactica!
So is Baltar actually believing the stuff he's saying, or is he just manipulating the situation? I can't figure out which, but personally, I wouldn't trust him at all.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well it's that or make up - or more to the point cast - a new bunch of characters.
As for Baltar, I think he does believe to a point. It's something we've seen grow since "Hand of God", though at his core he's still an egotist and oddly enough, a pragmatist. I honestly believe that this series is as much about Baltar as it is about the fleet.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think that the "we're all perfect children of God" is supposed to seem ominous, given both who introduced it (Tory) and how it runs against the whole feel of the show, which is at least in part or occasionally about how we have to do good despite our flaws, or maybe how we can do evil without intending to. But I don't think Baltar necessarily has an ulterior motive, at this point. And that scene where he comes to talk to Tyrol was great.
re angels: The interesting thing, I think, is that Hallucinatory Six has previous referred to herself as an angel, and the last time Kara saw Leoben (Who Wasn't Leoben?), he seemed to be the same kind of entity. Not that I'm saying that this Leoben was anything other than a regular flesh and blood Cylon; just that it is an interesting juxtaposition.
I would have loved a scene where Sharon goes to talk to Leoben, though.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Maybe they're trying to use Baltar's personal struggles as an allegory for the struggle of the Cylons. Or at least the ones who decided genocide wasn't their proudest moment and are struggling with that (the sixes and their friends in the civil war) and yet still have all their nasty tendencies.
Did anyone else get a little vibe that Leoben had maybe an inkling about Anders being a Cylon?
Also, I'm getting really sick of Starbuck *dying for chrissakes* and reappearing all different. She has to be the Final One. And yet she really can't be, gods damn it, frak you writers.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
At least we now know that there is definitely a Cylon Civil War. If it weren't for the fact that some of the Cylons seem to want to change their ways, I'd have the same attitude as Anders and think them killing each other is okee dokie.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Leoben could also have been insinuating that he is like Anders, as human as he thinks Anders is anyway, not that Anders is Cylon Model X.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I was a bit disappointed this week. I'm hoping that next week will be packed with thrills'n'spills and happening funky fun galore, to justify the first part of a (presumed) two-parter being full of filler.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I agree with Lee. The preview looked interesting, but was still a little slow. I miss episodes with their "oh man!" endings and plot twists. Way to much filler and I'm not sure how they plan to wrap up all the old loose ends.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
The past five episodes have felt slow and dragging to me, only my stubbornness has kept me watching without taking naps.
It seems that there are more commercials for the sci-fi BSG site than episode anyway.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
And it doesn't help that every week they say "ALL WILL BE REVEALED!!!".
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: The past five episodes have felt slow and dragging to me, only my stubbornness has kept me watching without taking naps.
I think it's mostly because the last two seasons we had major storylines that needed to be tied up in the first half dozen episodes (Kobol & New Caprica) before the mid-season lull. This time it's got the whole season in which to finish up, so there's not the same sense of urgency.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
They could have done it with the same urgency, stuffing more episode per hour and fewer design your own Viper commercials.
Well, on the plus side, it shouldn't drag on to another season.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I felt they'd kept the pace up quite well until this episode, which didn't have the payoff of having any real surprises. The mutiny was predictable right from the The Ties That Bind, Leoben shit stirred just like he always does and there wasn't much movement on the Baltar or Final Four/Five storylines either.
And they're obviously going to be heading off for the Baseship (as if they'd just go back to Galactica and give up!), so they might as well have just done that in this episode.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I do feel that the Baltar storyline needs to go somewhere soon.. it's seems to be sort of stuck. What actually was the significance of getting Tyrol to shake hands with him? Knowing Baltar, it probably wasn't much more than just preventing another punch in the face from an angry guy.
I did think the mutiny was nicely done. I did actually expect them to just go along with Starbuck again. Technically, Starbuck should probably end up in the brig now, or at least be put under Doc Cottle's care, since she's becoming a threat to the Fleet. But I guess she'll find some way to continue her trip to Earth. It's kind of pointless to speculate about BSG storylines, since they are still quite unpredictable... but I wouldn't be surprised if Starbuck would leave the ship with just Leoben, and lead the rogue Cylons to Earth.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Baltar is probably trying to make peace with himself and those around him now, which, overall, is better than getting used as a punching bag.
Which group are the rogues? The ones that follow the path of waging war on their creators or the group that feels that they made errors and broke away from the others?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
As with most civil wars, I'd bet each side probably considers the other one to be the rogue.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Mind you, we haven't really heard how either group feels about the war with the humans at this point. Especially since of the two initial instigators of the Peace Faction, Caprica Six is in human custody amd Boomer is with the more-hardline Cylons. We know (or can infer) that she's no longer especially pro-human, and that the Cavills, Dorals and Simons are about the least likely of the Twelve to favour peace with humanity; but there's no reason to assume that the Sixes, Leobens and Eights (see what i did there?) are any more pro-human.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Someone on another board pointed something out that made me feel like an idiot. Of course Baltar wasn't being sincere!
Early in the episode, Tory tells Baltar that Roslin isn't concerned by his sect because they're not high profile enough. Next thing we know, Baltar's pleading with Tyrol to join him, ending with the scene where Tyrol takes his hand. But we only see this from Tyrol's point of view. Chances are, Six was feeding Baltar all those lines, telling him to get Tyrol on board so they had someone high profile.
Convincing one of Adama's best officers, as well as the son of a polytheist priest to join Baltar's staunchly monotheistic cult would be a nice little coup. Not to mention that Tyrol was one of the most significant members of the resistance on New Caprica. What better way to make people reconsider what Baltar has to say?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Mmm. Not sure I buy it. For one thing, when Six is calling the shots chez Baltar, you usually see her doing so. And Baltar IS capable of being manipulative, but usually to get himself OUT of scrapes. But the notion that he's cynically playing some sort of a game with a long-term plan in germinating his little cult is interesting, I'll admit.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
And Tyrol isn't one of Adama's best officers anymore, either. Isn't even an officer, is he? He was demoted to Specialist; and before that, he was a Chief somethingorother, and I don't know if that's an officer or eh, what doyou callem, enlisted rank.
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: And it doesn't help that every week they say "ALL WILL BE REVEALED!!!".
Sci-fi says that about every episode of every show, including the ones where there aren't any great secrets to begin with...
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Tyrol's always been enlisted, but that on-the-spot demotion has got to hurt.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
I think with Baltar and the Chief that was a genuine reaching out. Even setting faith and religion and Cylon natures aside. I was so mad when Baltar invoked Cally the first time. SO MAD. And then Tyrol practically Vaders him and I was, like, "YES! That is the correct reaction!" Of course, he's going to try to kill him. And there's that part of Baltar that wants him to do it. The apology, and handshake later seemed genuine to me. Sought for and granted.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think it's worth remembering that Baltar once saved Cally's life, which (I think) to this day is the only time he's ever taken a life. So there is a genuine personal connection there.