As there are many people wanting to avoid spoilers for this one (even the title was kept secret!), I'll make a new thread now to discuss the quite fantastic trailers.
This just got posted, yesterday's new TV trailer as aired on the BBC:
Holy crap! Davros sounds good. I also like the way he seems to slump in his chair, and that piercing blue Dalek-light.
I have no idea who the Children of Time are, but we heard in "Turn Left" that Donna was allegedly "the most important in the whole of creation". Donna is a Child of Time? No idea what that means, but it sounds interesting!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I would think the Children Of Time would be the Time Lords...or the figurative children of the time lords?
Perhaps they had some fail safe to pass on their legacy if Galifrey were ever destroyed, something the Doctor wasn't aware of. It's possible, given he was always a bit of an outsider even on his own world and he's far from omnipotent.
I am a bit confused by Donna suddenly being so important to the Universe. Not so much that her absence made such a difference (the same would be true for many companions) but that Rose said reality is warping around her and it has nothing to do with the beetle.
On question though, given as I'm not very well versed in Who Lore, what's the significance of the red Dalek?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Thanks for the link.
The Children of Time might be the companions of the Doctor!?! They always go on about those who have travelled through time and space and how they've been changed.
"The Children of Time are moving against us?"
Donna, Rose, Martha, Jack, Sarah-Jane? Are they the Children of Time? (Makes me wish we could see some other companions too! )
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I just hope the appearance of the Torchwood people is still going to make sense for those of us who stopped watching it.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Well, you might be puzzled by the lack of two team members, but it probably will make sense.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
They might not be in it much anyway. With so many sidekicks, I can't imagine many of them getting more than a few lines.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: Well, you might be puzzled by the lack of two team members, but it probably will make sense.
And people like me who've never watched it?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Well, Torchwood was well established in DW before the show itself actually aired... and the only characters that will be seen are the ones mentioned in "Turn Left".
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
THey'll likely have a throwaway line about being light a couple staff at Torchwood 3. Nothing to get worked up about, except that some may have trouble believing that three people are all that have been standing between aliens and the annihilation of Cardiff when the Doctor's not around. Ditto for Sarah Jane and Luke (the other kids look like they're not showing up).
And a Red Dalek has not been seen in the TV canon of Doctor Who, so it's tough to say what THAT's all about. Pre-2005, we only had the standard grey or silver Daleks with minor paint scheme changes, the Black Dalek special commanders, and on one occasion a gold Dalek. Then there's the various incarnations of the Emperor Dalek (one of which WAS Davros), the Imperial Dalek group, and their Special Weapons Dalek.
A red Dalek was seen as a commander in the Dr. Who movies, but that's hardly an indication in this case.
Mark
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Upon review, and based on many people saying this over on Doctor Who forums, the consensus seems to be that "children of time" most likely refers to the Doctor's companions, ie all the faces we saw in that trailer.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
That's probably the most likely interpretation, though on the surface it seams odd that most of them would even come to Davros's notice.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Well, you might be puzzled by the lack of two team members, but it probably will make sense."
Why, did two of them get killed off, or something? Let me guess : They were having sex on the roof of a tall building and fell off.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
One of them died, was resurrected, couldn't die, got irradiated/incinerated. The other got shot. And, to be completely contrary, they never had sex with each other.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Dag Nabit! I'm still to watch the finale of Torchwood! Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
A new clip has been put up on the BBC site. Good reactions from the companions when they realise what they're facing! :-)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Got a link?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's pretty chilling. I rallly like the expression on Sarah Jane's face, and she's thinking about Luke first, being so young upon realizing that there is really no hope for Earth against the Daleks. Even Jack's genuinely afraid - though possibly more for his team than for himself. He's been exterminated before... Would he survive it again?
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I like that they haven't diminished the threat and impact of the Daleks, even after all these years. It's a shame the Borg were not treated with as much respect...ironic considering which one looks slightly more silly.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I like that they haven't diminished the threat and impact of the Daleks, even after all these years."
They kinda have, though. They just don't acknowledge it. That's what seems a little silly to me about this trailer. Everyone hears a Dalek voice and immediately shits themselves. And yet, every time the Daleks show up recently, the Doctor ends up not only defeating them handily, but pretty much completely annihilating them. (Except, then they always come back somehow.)
Basically, the Daleks are so repeatedly defeatable, they're more like annoying insects than the worst enemies ever. Instead of quaking in fear, the characters should be saying "Oh, christ, not the Daleks again. Doctor, could you swat them for us? Thanks."
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Basically, the Daleks are so repeatedly defeatable, they're more like annoying insects than the worst enemies ever.
But the whole point is that it's only the Doctor who can defeat them - pretty much everyone else in the universe is completely screwed. The Daleks are old, powerful, technologically advanced and absolutely psychotic, right down to the genetic level. They took on the Time Lords and managed to fight them to a standstill.
Consider the Sixth Doctor's views on his own people:
quote:In all my travelling throughout the universe I have battled against evil, against power mad conspirators. I should have stayed here. The oldest civilisation: decadent, degenerate, and rotten to the core. Power mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen, they're still in the nursery compared to us. Ten million years of absolute power. That's what it takes to be really corrupt.
And that's the power that the Daleks have, that's the civilization they were able to take on. Even the Time Lords were worried about them, enough to try to avert their creation. So I don't think they have been diluted - it's just that the Doctor is the only character who can beat them. The Borg were different - they went from a force that the entire Federation couldn't stop to one that was taken on and defeated every week by a single isolated ship thousands of light years from home. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Holy CRAP! What an AWESOME teaser. I'm actually shaking! Sarah-Jane's response was shocking and amazing!
Wow! I can't wait for this.
Wow.
*Agrees whole-heartedly with FawnDoo*
Thanks again for the link!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Gotta agree too. Jack, Sarah Jane, even Rose all know that against the Daleks, they're dead without the Doctor. The Daleks have always been posessed of incredible firepower and an insane compulsion to kill absolutely everyone who isn't a Dalek. The only one with the smarts to defeat them has always ever been the Doctor, and in the future history of Earth, a massive coalition of planets centuries from now. Even the Movellans had only been able to fight them to a standstill.
But right here, right now, anyone who's messed with the Daleks before knows in their heart that they were lucky to walk away while most everyone aound them died. Everyone died on Satellite Five, including Jack. Tons of people died at the Slaughter of Canary Wharf. Pretty much everyone was dead on Exxilon, and in the Kaled city on Skaro before Sarah Jane left those places.
You know, I'm wondering just how much of the past three seasons could have been avoided if Harriet Jones hadn't blown up the Sycorax ship in "The Christmas Invasion". Would they really have texted the interstellar community and told them that Earth was defended and to stay away? Would the Sontarans, the Adipose, the Krillitane, Klom, Racnoss, Slitheen, and whatever other aliens in Tochwood and SJA have come to wreak havoc on the primitive Earth had they been allowed to tell them? How wrong was Harriet Jones?
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Is the current series, the most that they've had alien activities based on current-time Earth? In the older Doctor Who series... was it mainly based away from Earth?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
The new series does have more of a focus on Earth than "classic" DW. Which is not to say that it didn't feature in the series: every Doctor had adventures on Earth (the Third Doctor was even based there permanently for a time, sent there in exile by the Time Lords) but the new series is more Earth-centred than the old one. Travel to an alien planet has been very much the exception rather than the rule in the new series, but Doctors One to Seven (and Eight, if you're a Big Finish fan) were all over the place. Gallivanting Gallifreyans, you might say! :-)
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
There will no doubt be a new thread soon to discuss the episode properly, but for now all I'll say is blimey. Good ending, they played a blinder with this one! :-)
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yeah...I'm not buying that ending. No way THAT could have been kept secret in this day and age. My money is on some Medusa Cascade loophole.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Oh, agreed, absolutely. There's jiggery-pokery afoot, I think. As far as keeping it quiet in these days of the internet...well, nothing's impossible. I agree with you and think that the ending isn't what it appears to be, but part of me wishes it was, because pulling off a surprise like that would just be so admirable. :-)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I would say it can't be for real. They've already said that Tennant is going to be in the specials they're running next year. In fact, aren't they skipping the 2009 season specifically so that he could work on other stuff without leaving the show?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Random thought - the camera settled on the extra hand at least once in the episode...it's on the floor...by the console...just saying it might be worth remembering how it came to be an extra hand in the first place...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Part of the reason for the 2009 specials was David Tennant's schedule, I do believe. But there's also the fact that the BBC's budget has been slashed (or rather, the license fee hasn't gone up with inflation for next year, or something). That's also the reason Torchwood will only get about 6 episodes.
But I agree it's quite unlikely DT is leaving, and much less likely they could've kept it a secret. But.. he could be leaving for just one episode? It would be quite a stunt if they do actually finish the regeneration properly! They could leave getting the Tenth Doctor back for the Christmas Special or even the 2009 specials, and just leave us hopelessly confused with a brand new, unannounced Eleventh Doctor!
Here's another wonderfully strange moment... in Doctor Who Confidential shown on BBC3 after the episode, there was a very brief interview (one statement) from Sylvester McCoy. And there are two major questions to be asked there:
- Was this part of some larger interview? What for? They showed a similar clip of Davison right after, but he's been more involved with Doctor Who recently than McCoy (Time Crash, his daughter playing.. the daughter). - WAS HE IN COSTUME!? Okay, it's known that the hat he wore in the classic series was his own, so he could be dressing like that anyway.. but why the umbrella? He was sitting, in costume, in a studio of some kind. Now, maybe he likes to dress up for interviews.. but that was such a strange moment. Remember, the Seventh Doctor was the last one to face Davros...
I don't want to speculate on whatever is going on next week, since it seems to be completely up in the air... but if there's even a remote chance of the Seventh Doctor appearing next week, or maybe in a special.. that would be very cool indeed. He's one of my favorites, and his 'dark Doctor' was very "New Who". Even if it's just for "Time Crash Part Deux"... consider me intrigued.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Small point, but according to the episode Davros faced the Doctor in the first year of the time war. One assumes that that the eighth doctor.
Now if anything, a Time War flashback showing Paul McGann is something I'd really like to see. The actor's age difference wouldn't even matter.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I'm glad that I wasn't the only one to notice Sylvester McCoy's unusual choice of outfit! :-) My wife turned to me and asked "He does realize he had to give the outfits back when he left the job, right?"
As for a past Doctor cameo, I think it would make more sense if it were the Eighth, as it's implied that the Eighth to Ninth Doctor regeneration was a result of the war. That said I always thought the events of "Remembrance of the Daleks" fitted in well as part of the Time War, so the seventh could have been involved I suppose. After all there's no reason why the events of a time war would need to happen in chronological order, is there?
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: They've already said that Tennant is going to be in the specials they're running next year.
Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff going on most likely. While I do personally think it unlikely that The Doctor would regenerate (my initial thought when watching was that Captain Jack would do his thing where he gives people life to prevent the regeneration, as he did quite a lot during the first year of Torchwood), it's not impossible. The thing is 'Doctor Who' is all about time travel, and we've seen before the big reset button of doom being used. But given that we've known that Davros would be back in this episode for several months, I do find it unlikely one major spoiler would be so conspicuous while another would be completely hidden. It would be ironic though that the last three regenerations for The Doctor would be due to encounters with the Daleks...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
There may be going to be two Doctors, maybe even a third, perhaps due to the presence of the hand and something to do with Donna (mention has been made of a ring she's suddenly wearing, leading to...). One of them may be the Master. There may be a massive reset button (again) due to the one-second-out-of-phase thingy. So the speculation goes.
Or, maybe the Beeb have managed to successfully fake everyone out and introduce a new Doctor without it leaking, and shots of Tennant filming the Christmas ep, and the announced specials next year, are all a smokescreen. It just better not be James fucking Nesbit is all I'm saying. David Morrisey I could just about handle. Some are even reading something into RTD's referencing of a couple of Hugh Grant movies during Confidential.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
The new Doctor is to be played by Gordon Brown. He'll defeat the Daleks by imposing a crippling green tax on exterminations.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Or Gordon Ramsay, and he will travel time and space to insult chefs around the whole of creation.
Now, here are some $$$$$$ spoiler warnings from Christmas Special set photos.
There are photographs of DT and David Morrissey. DM in a Doctor-ish looking outfit (some people even claim he has question marks on his vest). Now, the most outrageous claims are that DTs presence there could be a smoke screen for him leaving, but I find that hard to believe with all the assurances of him staying for the specials. So.. the current theory I am sticking with is that he will properly regenerate into DM, but that his hand in a jar will also regenerate/grow into DT. Hence, two Doctors. But.. Dalek Caan mentioned the "Threefold Man", so there may still be one more element to all this. To be honest, I don't expect any previous Doctors in this episode, as it's already overcrowded.
Another possibility and explanation of "the Threefold Man" is that the regeneration does fail. Remember, we have the exact three companions in the Tardis that we were told were special. Rose looked into the Heart of the Tardis, Jack is infused with Tardis-dust and Donna is apparently something special as well. What if the regeneration somehow fails, and the Tardis intervenes and 'diverts' the regeneration into the three companions? They could later reconstruct the Doctor using his hand.
[ June 30, 2008, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Harry ]
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Okay, to use the same spoiler-avoiding method of reply:
I don't buy that David Morissey is the next Doctor, and certainly not in that outfit. I don't know why, to be honest, but I'm just not going for it. They've gone to great efforts to make the new series interesting, cool and modern, while tipping the hat to the old series enough to show the sheer affection many of the production staff have for it and bring older fans along for the ride, and up to now I think they have managed to keep older and newer fans mostly happy. I just don't see them taking what I think would be a step back with the old stereotype of the "Edwardian Dandy" Doctor with the fancy outfit. I think that would be too much of a slide backwards into cliche. Don't get me wrong, I think David Morissey is a fine actor who could do a lot with a role like the Doctor, but not as a caricature.
Aaaand back into the land of the visible text, hints and rumours abound that there will be two Tenth Doctors, one of which will depart with Rose into Pete's World. If so, which one of them will get custody of the TARDIS? It's always the same, the Time Lords go their separate ways and the transdimensional time capsules get caught in the middle...
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Or, maybe the Beeb have managed to successfully fake everyone out and introduce a new Doctor without it leaking, and shots of Tennant filming the Christmas ep, and the announced specials next year, are all a smokescreen. It just better not be James fucking Nesbit is all I'm saying. David Morrisey I could just about handle. Some are even reading something into RTD's referencing of a couple of Hugh Grant movies during Confidential.
I think such a smokescreen, unfortunately, is extremely unlikely but an increasingly large part of me wishes so much that they had pulled such a thing off. That a TV show could manage to keep such a secret and fling the viewers a genuine surprise in this day and age of internet sites, forums, youtube, flickr and hordes of obsessed little berks walking the streets of Wales with web-enabled cameraphones...I wish it were so, I really do, much as I have enjoyed David Tennant's Doctor. I just don't see it happening. Alas.
And James "Fucking" Nesbit (is that a callsign, like Lee "Apollo" Adama?) wouldn't be so bad, surely? As long as he didn't try to give away Yellow Pages on every planet the TARDIS visited he would be ok.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Not to spoil the stuff you've taken the time to carefully redact, but why would anyone think there was anything fishy about a guy's being dressed in Victorian costume whilst filming a Victorian scene?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I don't think there's anything fishy about it at all - the Christmas special is rumoured to be set in Victorian times and so the outfit makes sense. I agree on that and think that the guy is just there as part of the scene, not as any new leading man. I was just responding to an idea that I think would be a step backwards for a show that has managed to do rather well in recent years. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Agreed - if only for the notion that EVERY Doctor save the Eighth has been dressed in relatively contemporary garb for the show at the time.
In the 60s, it was not unknown to see older men dressed in Edwardian frocks or check pants; the 1970s had the smoking jackets and frilly disco shirts that Jon Pertwee wore; save Tom Baker's scarf, his outfits were relatively off the shelf; and Peter Davison's and Colin Baker's costumes refected the loud and clashy 1980s kid show motifs. The two modern Doctors we've seen have basically continued this trend, using available 2000s fashions to look relatively blended-in with the locals. I expect this to continue.
Mark
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I notice you skip the Seventh! :-) Poor old Sylvester, what has he ever done to hurt you? Mind you his outfit was fairly generic, just a jacket, trousers and jumper so nothing too out of the ordinary there. I have to say though, regarding the sixth Doctor...I don't remember ANYONE wearing anything like that, and while I might not have been around for the sixties or a lot of the seventies, I would have remembered something like that from the eighties! Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Looked at that way, the 6th and 7th Doctor outfits were perhaps the most anachronistic for the time period they were filmed in, and look what happened? The show got cancelled. They were also the least popular portrayals, with me at least, and while I'm not a full-blown DW fan I'm at least open to the concept; much of the other audience wouldn't have been.
I think this is the first time I've seen a pic of Morrisey from the Xmas Special filming. From that I'd say it's pretty-much certain he's not the new Doctor, it's not a believable look. Of course, Tennant spent most of his first outing (the 2005 Xmas show) in pyjamas and dressing-gown, so he could still be finding his feet, as it were, in terms of how he'd like to dress.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...and I'm still waiting for them to follow up on that Arthur Dent reference. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I left off Sly's outfit because despite its eccentricity, it was relatively unoticable for the late 80s. Like the first two Doctors, it was a little old fashioned, but not enough to really stick out during the modern day adventures.
Speaking of which, Sylvester McCoy DOES dress like that. He uses a cane these days (per convention reports), and the hat his Doctor wore during his tenure was in fact the actor's actual hat that he wore to the audition. It similarly appeared and was lost in the TV Movie (again, Sly's actual hat) but it seems the old topper has finally been replaced as of 2008, unless McCoy wears several hats while out and about.
EDIT - According to this Wiki picture taken in June of this year, he's still got his old Panama hat - and his dress cues are basically the same!
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