The recent Star Wars trilogy so far has been nothing more than mediocre. The films murk the history. Waste Time and money. The effects aren't truly mind blowing. I think Spy Kids does a better job with a much lower budget. More action, less story. Maybe Lucas should take break as he did w/ The Empire Strikes Back and look how that turned out. ------------------ Axel Foley: Don't you think I realize what's going on here, miss? Who do you think I am, huh? Don't you think I know that if I was some hotshot from out of town that pulled inside here and you guys made a reservation mistake, I'd be the first one to get a room and I'd be upstairs relaxing right now. But I'm not some hotshot from out of town, I'm a small reporter from "Rolling Stone" magazine that's in town to do an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson that's gonna be picked up by every major magazine in the country. I was gonna call the article "Michael Jackson Is Sitting On Top of the World," but now I think I might as well just call it "Michael Jackson Can Sit On Top of the World Just As Long As He Doesn't Sit in the Beverly Palm Hotel 'Cause There's No Niggers Allowed in There!"
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Your signature is really getting ... well, I was going to say ridiculous, but it's more like obscene. I think we have a rule about no sigs over 3 lines or something. You're violating it by like 700%.
And no one's going to listen to a thing you say (er, sorry, 'read' a single thing you say) so long as you've got a sig as long as Simon's manhood.
Posted by Intruder1701 (Member # 880) on :
Shouldn't someone be waving the blasphemy stick right about now? I mean, who dares to defy the almighty George Lucas?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
That's not a signiture. It's an essay.
quote: And no one's going to listen to a thing you say (er, sorry, 'read' a single thing you say) so long as you've got a sig as long as Simon's manhood.
Surely not?!?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
It seems that Dr Phlox is getting around the hard-coded signature limit by pasting his sig into the message field itself.
Charles has had a 350-character limit on sigs for a while now, one that can't be circumvented inside the profile AFIK. (But he still needs to fix the bug in it... )
Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
As for the topic, I disagree. I like the new trilogy, the action, and the storyline. Granted, its not the same as the original, but who cares? Its Lucas' project, not ours. You whiners think that you own Star Wars and that you're only letting George Lucas touch it. The truth is Lucas *is* Star Wars and what he wants it to be is his choice, and not anyone elses. If you don't like it, don't watch it. But don't complain when an artist decides to do something different with his paintings.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Jeff,
So what you're saying is George Lucas should operate with only positive feedback? Honesty is just not appreciated anymore.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Also, calling Lucas an artist is right up there with calling Danielle Steel an accomplished authoress.
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
I agree with Raven if he doesn't want to make it good let him go ahead. I'm saying with something as big as Star Wars you should at least make an effort. And I don't believe his story about having all this ready pre 77. If you know your history the episode titles came in later when he decided he could ride this X-wing a little bit longer. --------------------------- If they can't take a joke fuck 'em.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You mean in 1979? Yeah, he should have stopped there.
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
I was referring to the year the original actually hit theaters. The year SW mania set off. --------------- If they can't take a joke fuck 'em.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So you're saying that he decided in 1977 to capitalise on the popularity of his film by making a "sequel"? Surely that's the madest thing anyone in Hollywood has ever done.
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
No what I'm saying is that he came up with all this Anakin Bullshit after the success of the original. Do you really think if he had thought it through he would have birthed Jar Jar? -------------- If they can't take a joke fuck 'em.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Well I think partially the problem is that George Lucas has become even more of a recluse over the years at Skywalker Ranch and hired a staff of sycophants. However outrageous or bad the idea is, the "Yes Men" tell George: "That's a fantastic idea."
Producer Rick McCallum seems like he is the worst sycophant among the George Lucas lackeys, which includes Ben Burtt, John Knoll, and Dennis Muren. Don't these people have any taste anymore. Why don't they say anything?
"Midiclorians? That's pretty way out there George."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Phlox: No what I'm saying is that he came up with all this Anakin Bullshit after the success of the original. Do you really think if he had thought it through he would have birthed Jar Jar?
Maybe, maybe not. Still, if he had stopped then, we wouldn't have had to put up with all that Anakin bullshit in The Empire Strikes Back, so you are plus 100% right.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I would like to come with you sometime, when you go to Skywalker Ranch to observe the proceedings.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
His name is revealed as Anakin Skywalker in Return of the Jedi. In Empire Strikes Back there were still doubts about Vader's claim that he was Luke's father and that Vader was trying to deceive him. No redemption I can turn him back from the darkside nonsense in Empire. He was rotten evil Darth Vader, Sith Lord and Ben Kenobi slayer, during that film. Boo! Hiss!
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Don't forget that Lucas had collaborator help on Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.
Star Wars was written with Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck.
The Empire Strikes Backwas written with Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasden, who collaborated with Lucas on Raiders of the Lost Ark which if I remember correctly this screen play was finished before work on the Empire script started. Lucas also didn't direct this picture, the director was Irvin Kershner.
Return of the Jedi was written with Lawrence Kasden again. The film was directed by the late Richard Marquand who got the job becaus of his suspenseful adaption of Ken Follett's Eye of the Needle.
Phantom Menace was written and directed entirely by George Lucas. There were no creative checks and balances this time, and it shows. There was no one around who could rein George in when he ran with really wild ideas.
Attack of the Clones was written with Jonathan Hales who gave us the story for that gem The Scorpion King. George assumed the directorial chores on this film as well.
Or may be the big problem is that Harrison Ford is a much bigger movie star than we originally thought. His portrayal of the space pirate Han Solo, with his modern skepticism and cynicism, allowed the first trilogy to work.
I for one couldn't care less about Episode III. There is an old saying I think that applies to the prequel trilogy:
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I have no problem with his plot (witch has actually be fairly good in a simplistic way that's easy to follw for new viewers-kids) but his scripting is the fucking worst. Anikin actually exclaims "Yipee!" and kick up his heels in Ep I. I have not seen anything so awe-inspiringly stupid outside of an Archee comic in my entire life. There were moments in Ep. I where I was actually embarrased to be in the theatre (and I attend EVERY Trek movie on opening day!), particularly the obvious racial steroyping of "Sambo Jar-Jar" and "Jewish-Watto". What the HELL was he thinking?!?
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
"Must... appeal... to... young... audience..."
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: His name is revealed as Anakin Skywalker in Return of the Jedi. In Empire Strikes Back there were still doubts about Vader's claim that he was Luke's father and that Vader was trying to deceive him. No redemption I can turn him back from the darkside nonsense in Empire. He was rotten evil Darth Vader, Sith Lord and Ben Kenobi slayer, during that film. Boo! Hiss!
well, if Kenobi hadn't been jealous and held him back in his training... oh well.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: I for one couldn't care less about Episode III. There is an old saying I think that applies to the prequel trilogy:
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
So did you see Episode II then?
And if Vadar had turned out NOT to be Luke's father in Jedi, then surely that would have pissed off an even greater portion of the audience who would have, essentially, been lied to?
And Watto was easily the best character in TPM. Easily. There shall be no "dissing" of him, or I will get medieval on your arses. However that works.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
There's one school of thought that says it involves the saying of "Hey nonny nonny," and a turnip.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
The thing is, the original Star Wars really wasn't all that good.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Except it was. And it wasn't. Hence, confusion.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Who was George Lucas before Star Wars? While directing the original Star Wars, Lucas was just this guy who had directed fucking "Diner", "THX1138" and a buch of demi-abstract student art-films. He fervently believed that this was going to be something more than schlock, but it was apparent to just about everyone that he needed some help to make that happen. And fortunately he got it. He was a visionary and the concept behind the entire Star Wars saga is really very VERY cool. He benefitted from excellent production designers, art designers, costume people, and actors. Alec Guiness didn't think this film was going anywhere. Carrie Fischer was embarassed to go to the premiere. And then it paid off and everyone got rich and lazy.
No, but Lucas still has one of the best (if not the best) production teams anyone could ask for. And technologically he's still pushing the envelope more than anyone else (more than anyone else can probably). But I suspect that now that he is George Lucas� that maybe things have changed at the Ranch. Now when he wants something, it isn't questioned like it would be if he were still fresh-faced from making "Diner". And I'm saying that things ought to be questioned. I'm a admittedly small-time writer and director myself, and I've got to tell you that getting good feedback is a critical part of good storytelling. If people aren't willing or able to look at his story or his post-production whim on that particular day and say, "I don't think that's a good idea" or "That's not going to work, because..." or "Maybe a human being should be involved in writing the love scenes, droid-George", then it tends to become mastubatory. It's very solitary and self-interested and the possibility of making a real connection becomes horribly muddied. Someone should have told him at some point that those love scenes were just awful. Someone should have told him that rather than charming and humorous Jar-Jar was distracting and time-consuming. Someone should have told him that quantifying The Force with midichlorians pretty much ruined the whole supernatural (and therefore compelling) concept of it.
It seems to me like a lot of Episodes I and II have been written in the editting room, like that's where the emphasis has been placed (They say you write a movie three times, once as a screenplay, once while you're shooting, and again while you're editting) And I think the concept of the stories is terrific, I just think a little more polish at the beginning would really go a LONG way towards making the sort of films that we've come to expect from Star Wars.
Which isn't to say that I didn't enjoy Episodes I and II. I did. I think the light-saber battle at the end of Ep I is probably the coolest sword fight I've ever seen. And the arrival of the clone army in Ep II is just spectacular. Still good films, but not great films like they could or arguably should have been.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
but look at his neck!!! it's huuuuge!!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That's the most right you've ever been, ever.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Balaam Xumucane:
Barry Levinson wrote and directed Diner in 1982. George Lucas directed American Graffiti in 1973 from a screenplay he wrote with Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck, the rumored collaborators who helped George with Star Wars: A New Hope.
PsyLiam:
I did see Episode II, and I enjoyed it less than Episode I. That's the point of the shame on me and the reason I used the expression. I actually believed some of the reviews that said that Episode II was better than Episode I.
At least in Episode I we had Liam Neeson and Rick Park as Darth Maul. The saber duel at the end of Episode I is the coolest thing, but the rest of the film is pretty wretched.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
The duel was nothing more than a well-choreographed dance. Yeah, it had an abundance of style, but it struck no emotional chords... contrast that to Luke going ballistic at the end of ROTJ, hammering Vader into submission with all his pent-up rage and hatred, stylistic considerations be damned... no ultra-slick moves, no fifty-feet jumps, no double-sided lightsabers, and yet that single scene conveyed more power than the TPM fight ever did.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I had a bunch of movie friends who had never seen Star Wars, and I got them to watch it (eventually, after much "It's not going to be sci-fi shit, is it?" arguing). Generally, they liked ANH, loved ESB, hated the first half of ROTJ, and loved the second half. And that's without most of them knowing that you are "suppossed" to like ESB the best.
The main complaint they had was that Luke was a bit shit, especially compared to Han. Conversly, one of the most popular scenes was "Luke going fucking mental" at the end of ROTJ. We watched episode 1 and 2, and initially, everyone loved the lightsaber fight with Maul, and thought it was better than the fights of the original trilogy. When we watched them again, however, people put the ROTJ fight above the episode 1 one. TPM has cheap, transitory thrills. The fight is good, there's no doubt about that. But Luke and Vadar at the end of ROTJ walks all over it in terms of emotion.
So I've basically said what Cartmaniac said, but in a longer and more confusing fashion. Woo.
And episode 2 is easily better than episode 1. Easily. If for nothing else than ST V vs ST I syndrome. Yeah, the love scenes were bad, but they were entertaining bad. Episode 1 was just boring.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
How did these people manage to grow up without seeing Star Wars? What sort of an upbringing is that?!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I was fairly astounded myself. I didn't actually regain the ability of speech until a fortnight after they'd told me.
One of them had never seen the Back To The Future movies either. Or a single Bond film. Or a single Indiana Jones film. It's parents like that who should be locked up.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Parents who were religious whackos, usually.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I only saw the first Back To The Future movie and a few parts of the others. In general I thought they were crap.
I also thought the last Indiana Jones movie was crap. I'll say it again: if you could somehow fuse the first half of Ep II with the second half of Ep I and make it work storywise, you'd have the best sci-fi movie ever made. In both cases, you got half a great movie and half a major disapointment.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Clearly you should never be allowed to have an opinion ever again.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
quote: I also thought the last Indiana Jones movie was crap.
quote: ...if you could somehow fuse the first half of Ep II with the second half of Ep I and make it work storywise, you'd have the best sci-fi movie ever made.
The opinions of Stalin make more sense.
Gene Ray, too.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So Stalin was critical of cheesey George Lucas movies despite the population fawning over him for such "masterpieces" as Episode I and Jar jar? As for Last Crusade, it was a great idea: Indiana Jones has to stop Nazis from obtaining a holy relic! Too bad he'd already made that movie with Raiders (and far far better too!).
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
More the fact that you live in a crazy world where the beginning of Attack Of The Clones was better than the ending.
Also, Back To The Future is George Lucus now?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
BTTF is just in my crappy/ overrated movie caragory: I never said Lucas made that. I thought the second half of ATOC was disappointing and SO MANY Jedi died easier than even lowly droids. The original trilogy and Ep I sure made them out to be tougher. I loved ATOC until just after Obi Wan and Jango have their great scrap in the rain: it's all downhill from there.
Posted by ZARDOZ (Member # 1064) on :
Two things you got to realize about Lucas,
He would rather be a succesful (profitable)film-maker than an "artist" hell, he almost invented the film merchandising industry.
He's got a story to tell , and some gimmicks to try out, and since he's got a ton of cash, and is paying the bills, he gets his way. You're seeing his vision, like it or no!
Personally, I really like all the Star Wars movies. They are simple entertainment with great imagery and clearly defined characters. The dialog is stuffy and the acting stiff in the older films , and not a lot better in the new ones! Are they perfect? hell no.
But let me tell you, they work for me just fine! At 40 years of age, I'm just as excited at the prospect of the next film as I was at 14 when the first one came out! And for that feeling alone I owe Mr. Lucas a debt of gratitude!
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Why did I not see this thread when it was started?
As the only member on this forum with a Star Wars character as their member name, I shall have SUPREME AUTHORITY over every opinion that is presented on this board. My opinions shall be the ONLY ONES THAT MATTER and will be agreed with no matter how much you think you disagree.
Now, ESB is by far the best SW film. Followed by Ep IV and ROTJ. And then "Attack of the Clones," and finally Phantom Menace. Without going into long speeches about the reasoning of these choices, I shall say this: all of the SW films are entertainment, and while Ep II is considered bad because of the crappy love story, it is still great fun, and isn't that what matters?
(Potential Spoilers $$$$$$) Ep. III will be better. There's going to be a space battle at the beginning, and lots more battles. Yoda's going to fight again, Anakin will become more evil, fight with Obi Wan, turn into Darth Vader, and kill many a Jedi. Doesn't that sound better?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Realistically speaking, only Darth Vader can kill Mace Windu. The laws of coolness would not have it otherwise.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Realistically speaking, only Darth Vader can kill Mace Windu. The laws of coolness would not have it otherwise.
Screw that: I want Sideous to kill Mace! That would make the movie worthwile all by itself. ...or mabye Boba caps mace from a goodly distance away.
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by Veers: As the only member on this forum with a Star Wars character as their member name...
I don't think so.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abaddon: ...or mabye Boba caps mace from a goodly distance away.
Ten year old bounty hunter clone offing Jedi? Hell, it couldn't be worse than young Anakin.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
quote: The truth is Lucas *is* Star Wars and what he wants it to be is his choice, and not anyone elses. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
You have a point about Star Wars being George Lucas' project. But he does have to follow the publics opinion somewhat, if no one likes the way he writes the story, then no one watches it, meaning he's losing money and wasting time. Therefore it would be in his best interests to listen to the publics opinion and change the story if the public doesn't like where it's going.
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