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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Omega: [QB] Man, I wish Rob was here more. Beating back ignorance by one's self can be tiring... JK1: "Do you know what self-defense is?" Yes. It's pointing a gun at someone from across the room so they can't kill you with the crowbar, for one example. "If someone breaks into your home, why don't you have an alarm system?" What makes you think that they can't circumvent the thing? Or that the police will get there in time? Let's see. Time it takes police to get to your house: five minutes, give or take. Time it takes a burgaler to get INTO your house and harm someone: about thirty seconds. Real tough call. And that's assuming the competance of the alarm company. We once got three calls in the middle of the night from ADT wanting to confirm that our alarm had gone off. Our alarm's been unplugged for four years. In the meantime, someone wasn't getting police protection. "Why don't you call your police?" Who says we don't? But the above objections still hold. "If all else fails, why don't you get the hell out of your home until the police arrive?" That's 'bout the stupidest thing you've said yet, JK. Because it's MY HOUSE. The intruder has no right to be there, and he's not about to drive me and my family out. Even if you ignore that, ask yourself: burgaler, prowling about in the dark, exact wherabouts unknown, armament unknown. Do you really want to be moving your children about the house? Jay: Bush is vague? BUSH is vague? He's the one who gives specifics! "Oh, we're going to shore up medicare, and get 100,000 new teachers," says Gore. Oh, please, tell us how you plan to conjure up 100,000 new teachers. Go compare [URL=http://www.georgewbush.com]www.georgewbush.com[/URL] and [URL=http://www.algore.com.]www.algore.com.[/URL] See who has more details. JK2: "How can it be irrelevent if you're defending it?" You really need to learn to make a coherant argument. I say that how many times I've needed to use a gun is irrelevant, and you say I'm defending... what? "HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU (OR ANYONE YOU KNOW PERSONALLY) EVER USED A GUN TO DEFEND THEMSELVES?" I can immediately think of one instance. And that's just the one that happened to come up because he was driving the vehicle we were in past the locale of the incident. You want statistics? An FBI study found that guns in the hands of private citizens prevent one to two MILLION crimes a year. Even you won't argue that that is outweighed by the number of deaths involving guns. Your credibility won't stand it, and you know it. "Of course you get your numbers by staying informed. Too bad you never present any webpages that could possibly verify these numbers." Because I don't feel like wasting my time aleviating your self-inflicted ignorance. Why don't you go do some research for yourself, eh? I'll even give you a good start. [URL=http://ciir2.cs.umass.edu/Govbot/]http://ciir2.cs.umass.edu/Govbot/[/URL] [URL=http://www.firstgov.gov]http://www.firstgov.gov[/URL] And it's not an attack to say someone seems like they're twelve? How would you feel if I said you were acting like you were eight? "If you want to present numbers, I want you to back them up." Again, why don't you go do your own research? You have nothing to combat me with, except your own beliefs based in ignorance. Find the truth for yourself. It'll mean more that way. "hundreds of children are killed every year because of handguns" And your source would be...? [IMG]http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif[/IMG] But just to make athe point, no one is killed BECAUSE OF HANDGUNS. They are killed WITH handguns. The original statement supports the view of many liberals: that normal, sane people can suddenly become homicidal maniacs when you put a gun in their hands, then revert when you take it away. It don't work that way. That's like saying people are killed because of the violence on TV. They're killed because of the hatred of the people holding guns, nothing else. "why do law abiding citizens need guns?" This is the stupidest question in the history of mankind. Sorry, but it is. No comment on your intelligence personally, just the question. *ahem* Let's work through this logically. A gun is a weapon. Weapons are for harming people (or other things, but we'll stick with people for now). Thus the question becomes: Why would a law-abiding citizen harm someone? This begs the question: How can one remian law-abiding and still harm someone? The obvious answer is if they are about to infringe on one's rights, or the rights of others. Thus guns, being a method of defence, can and should be used by law-abiding citizens to defend their rights, or the rights of others. These rights include their lives, their property, and their freedom. Thus anyone who would violate one's rights is a valid target for a law-abiding citizen with a gun, be they criminals, errant government officials, or invading armies (or other possibilities that don't make themselves immediately obvious). Good enough? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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