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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: [QB] Forgive me for the paraphrasing ... US Secretary of State Dean Rusk said after the attack, that an accident might occur for a few minutes, but there was no way that the very distinctive looking USS Liberty could be fired on for over an hour at close range without being identified as American. [QUOTE]. Five hours later, the Liberty mark was considered old information and removed from the battle control board. At 11:00 A.M., shifts changed and the information about the Liberty was not known to the officer who assumed command. At about 1:00 P.M., when the presence of a ship steaming west, 14 miles off the coast of the Sinai and reported to be shelling Israel Army positions from the sea became a tactical issue, the Navy Officer in command did not know about the dawn sighting of Liberty many miles to the west. [/QUOTE]Gosh, I guess it wasn’t “old information”, was it? And since the Liberty had NO GUNS capable of bombarding ANYTHING, (and instead had big antennas), then one wonders what all those recon flights were about. Oh, wait, don’t forget: crewmen onboard Liberty heard the pilots saying it was an American ship (directly prior to the assault). This of course, despite the TWELVE over-flights between 5:30am and 2pm. [QUOTE]There is no evidence or transcript extant that suggests that the pilots in the air at the time knew that their target was a US ship. The Israelis had already been informed that no US ship was within 100 miles of the coast. (Unfortunately, the Liberty never received any of the several orders to withdraw.)[/QUOTE]There is evidence, the testimony of survivors of the USS Liberty. What you forget to mention is that of all the boards of inquiry, only FOURTEEN Liberty crewmen testified, and allegations have been made that certain testimony was NOT PERMITTED. Given, of course, that the outcome of the Boards of Inquiry had been ordered by Washington, it’s a wonder that anyone testified at all. BTW - as much as Rob would like to dismiss this, the Board of Inquiry’s own legal counsel, Captain Ward Boston, has recently come forward with this information. In other words, the Board of Inquiry was a sham to preserve the US/Israeli alliance. [QUOTE]The squadron commander concluded that the ship was the Egyptian supply vessel EL QUSEIR. Ensign Erell, looking over his skipper's shoulder at the picture and glancing up at the burning vessel, fully agreed, even though he would later recall that the mast in the picture was not positioned identically with the mast of the target vessel...." [/QUOTE]Well, it’s nice to know that the Israeli Navy has such INCOMPETENT officers. [URL=http://www.ussliberty.org/g/samosamo.gif]THIS[/URL] is a comparrison of the silhouttes of the Liberty and the El Quseir. As you can see, they look NOTHING alike, especially not in shape and SIZE. Where El Quiseir has GUNS, all the Liberty has are BIG COMMUNICATIONS GEAR. Please forgive me for making one of two assumptions: a) Ensign Erell and his Squadron Commander are dip-shits incapable of floating a boat in a bathtub, b) the posted commentary is altered to reflect the “fog of war” excuse. [QUOTE]The sqaudron commander ordered his boats to commence torpedo attacks. The vessels peeled off to make their runs and fired five torpedos. Only one hit home. The boats raked the burning ship, now dead in the water, with their guns[/QUOTE]They also targeted Liberty crewmen on the deck, including fire-control teams and medical support teams. They also opened fire on assorted life-craft tossed into the water. [QUOTE]At worst, this sounds like a case of "Shoot first, answers aren't that important," and not a "calculated" attack. (You'll note that this, also, falls into the realm of "believing the people who were there.")[/QUOTE]I don’t believe the Israelis who were there. Why? Motivated self-interest. If you’d attacked an ally ship with the hope of sending a message or what have you, and the attack had failed, would YOU want your most powerful supporter coming down on you with a volley of nukes? Probably not. In other words: Israel’s motivated self-interest was to keep the alliance with the USA. The US’s motivated self-interest was to keep the peace with Israel, at the time certainly its strongest ally in the region. What motivated self interest does the crew of the Liberty have? None, except to see the truth told. [QUOTE]There are a limited number of radio frequencies available, and jammer's aren't always selective (hence the phrase "They're jamming all frequencies!")[/QUOTE]What are Egypts? What are the US's? I don't know. (And if all frequencies were jammed, how did the Liberty manage to call for help? It's a matter of record that two carriers launched planes in response to a Liberty SOS)[/quote] Yes, once Liberty radiomen were able to find an un-jammed radio frequency. In an interview, Jim Ennes said: “Long after the attack I was contacted by an Israeli pilot who told me that on his first flight over the ship he saw our American flag and informed his headquarters that we were American but was told to ignore the flag and attack anyway. He refused to do so and returned to base where he was arrested. I was told by an Israeli in the war room that they knew we were American. I have been told by several American intelligence analysts who read or in some cases heard the messages between the pilots and their headquarters that these messages make it very clear that the pilots and their headquarters knew we were American.” [QUOTE]I don't know the range of the torpedo boats at the time they launched. What was it?[/QUOTE]Close enough to murder American servicemen. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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