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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Omega: [QB] [i]BY "Everyone's damned unless they believe what we believe" they justify two thousand years of violence, political, spiritual and physical oppresion and just being dicks to whoever does'nt pay their dues and bend their knee.[/i] No we don't. I have yet to meet a Christian who wants to justify any of that. Yes, it was used to justify things like the crusades WHEN THEY WERE HAPPENING, but, newsflash: all those people are DEAD! Blaming modern Christians for what their predecessors may have done is like blaming modern white people in America for slavery, i.e. stupid. [i]And evolution has been observed.[/i] You MIGHT make an argument that speciation has been observed, for very loose definitions of "species", but that's hardly the same as observing that humanity itself evolved all the way from bacteria. [i]And a mea culpa centuries after murdering innocents isn't going to change that.[/i] Which is why most of us know better than to offer one. I have enough sin of my own to worry about without claiming responsibility for sins committed centuries before I was born by people who happened to call themselves the same thing I call myself. If you've got a problem with what _I_ believe, then point it out. [i]no Gods have ever been observed. Neither have the effects of any Gods.[/i] Nor did I claim they had. However, I can create a fine logical framework indicating that they must exist given certain basic assumptions. Which was the point of what I said. [i]Or do you not know that most Christians preach the fact that you can get salvation no matter what belief you have?[/i] Um.... no. What Christians have you been talking to? No one who believes the teachings of Christ as represented in the Bible can possibly claim what you just said most of us do. "No man comes to the father except through me." The rest of what you said, however, is quite correct. We don't always run around with a Bible yelling at people about how they're damned, because we know that doesn't work all that well. If you ask, yeah, we'll tell ya, but it can be a lot more effective to simply show our love, rather than hitting people over the head with it. And even if we don't think conversion is even possible, well, we'll be Christians anyway. [i]But why does anyone need to be "saved?" Why is there a need for "salvation?"[/i] Because everyone's sinned. If you sin, you die (however you define spiritual death), because God can not be in the presence of sin. Thus to survive we all need some way for God to overlook our sin. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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