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[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdipisReks: [QB] first, it's [b]Edipis[/b], not [b]Oedipus[/b]. well, carl sagan said that evolution is a fact, and he's dead so he knows more than you, [b]Omega[/b] :p . no, in the forms that are simplest to see in a labaratory, evolution is a fact. there have been studies of short lived simgle celled organism's over many generations of the organism's life, and changing the environment that they lived in caused evolutionary changes that are not so slow (at least that's what the studies reproduced in my high school AP Biology book said). my statement that evolution is a fact in and of itself but a theory when it is used to explain reality is obvisouly true. here, let me give you a simplified example. ice cream melts when it is above freezing. FACT. i propose that that the universe was formed by a big chunk of strawberry ice cream melting because it was suddenly above freezing. THEORY. just because i apply a FACT to a situation that is theoretical doesn't make the underlying fact any less a FACT. the most uneducated southern baptist will admit that the evolution of creatures happens. everyone knows about the moths that went from white to sooty grey when the industrial revolution happened in england. if you don't know of that, let me present it. pre-industrial revolution: trees white, moths white, white moths blend in and aren't eaten by birds. dark moths DO stick out, so there aren't very many of them. post industrial revolution: trees grey with soot: white moths stick out and are eaten by birds: dark moths survive since they blend in. population shifted to dark pigmentation since mostly dark moths wer breeding. that is a FACT. the moths evoloved due to a changing environment. whether you believe that all species came about from evolution or not doesn't determine whether the underlying FACT is still a FACT. oh, by the way, a couple of things. i'm a European history major, and when you study Europe from the "dark ages" until about the 16th century you are actually studying the catholic church. sounds to me like they had a little bit of control. and, oh yeah! there wouldn't have been a rennaisance with out catholocism, true. but you are missing the fact that without the catholic church repressing knowledge and ideas left and right there wouldn't have been a NEED for a rennaisance. if only those damn monks hadn't squirelled away all of that greek and roman knowledge (don't even pretend that it was to "protect the knowledge". the muslims of the middle ages didn't destroy the knowledge of ancient greece and rome when THEY got their hands on it, so why would anyone else?), and if the popes had been nice who KNOWS where we would be right now. going warp 674 (TOS scale) i imagine. --jacob [/QB][/QUOTE]
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