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[QUOTE]Originally posted by EdipisReks: [QB] ah ha! what do you think is the cause of evolution? it's natural selection! species don't just change for fun. a change takes place becasue it is beneficial. whether the change is beneficial for a new environment or is just even better for an environment the animal was already adpated for doesn't matter. when environments change, the examples of a species that are better able to live in the new environment take over the species. because of the changed environment, the moths [i]evolved[/i] from a predominantly light colored group to a predominantly dark colored group. yes, of course the fact that there were white [i]and[/i] grey moths was caused by random mutation originaly, but it took a changed environment for the species to change, ie [i]evolve[/i], as a whole. they are not 2 different things. giraffes with short necks died out because some giraffes with long necks happened due to random biological chance. the long necked giraffes didn't take over because the long necks are chic, but because it allowed them to eat better, and thus their chances of breeding and causing long necked giraffes were better. just as grey moths lived while white moths died in a changed environment, long necked giraffes superseded short necked in a static environment. in both cases, its ntural selection. in other words, natural selection causes evolution. if the change wasn't beneficial, the mutants would just die of. the species doesn't take on the characteristics as a whole unless there is advantage in it. i now understand the problems many of the religious have. they don't understand that natural selection is why there is evolution. thank you for elucidating that fact for me. oh, by the way. there is more evidence that one species has become another than there is evidence than a magical invisible old man who cares about who i have sex with lives in the sky. i mean, gosh, most life is 90% identical genetically, but all life isn't 90% magical invisible old man who lives in the sky. i'm not even going to bother explaining the proof for special evolution, considering that you think evolution and natural selection are two totally remote things. what evidance do you want? seeing the first chimp shooting out of a moneky? it doesn't happen that way (especially since chimps aren't descended from monkeys, they are different branches of the same tree). evolution isn't monkey-chimp-human. animals evolve to fit an environtmental niche. a gorilla is never going to talk because it doesn't need to. it is (or was, their environment has changed in the last century) perfectly adapted to living in jungle highlands. they don't need to drive trucks, so the gorillas with better feet for hitting a gas pedal aren't taking over. man didn't evolve from a monkey. man and monkey had a common ancestor. when some went into the trees, those with strong tales and opposable thumbs on their feet evolved into proto-monkeys, and the rest died or went off somewhere else, since they weren 't as good at climbing trees. those that went into plains and had straighter backs and longer feet could walk better and lived, while those who couldn't died, or went somewhere else. proto-monkey eventually became monkey, as environmental factors weeded them out even more. staight back became homo sapien or homo neandertalus depending on the environment they were in (and when homo sapien came to europe they out hunted the neandertals, or maybe absorbed the neandertals, and the neandertals went away). man, i could write a hundred pages on this. you people want to see a monkey turn to a man in order to prove evolution made both, but that will never happen as natural selection takes a while, and (more importanntly) modern species are well adapted to their environments after millions of years of evolving, and thus aren't going to change too much (there is still evolution. in urban settings, raccoons have grown more nimble, as the nimbler raccoons are better adapted for getting into trash cans and thus breed more than their less nimble compadres. maybe in a million years raccoons will evolve special limbs for taking apart half eaten tv dinners, as the raccoons with hookier claws are better able to peel back the foil, who knows). well, i guess i ended up giving some of the proof in a nutshell. to reiterate, natural selection=evolution. [edit: by the way, dumbass, there's a reason why i put an emoticon next to my sagan comment :p . it was a joke. hey, but don't you appeal to an authority everytime you go to church? isn't that an invalid argument?] --jacob [/QB][/QUOTE]
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