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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PsyLiam: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by SoundEffect: [qb]Well the Nebula saucer section IS distinctly different from a Galaxy Class one [/qb][/QUOTE]Not if we're talking about the CGI model, it's not. And now, Jeff, let me say that I'm not actually disagreeing with you. I was more taking affront with the phrase "generally acknowledged", because I don't think it is. I seem to recall the fact that Roddenberry came up with the "Yorktown" thing is in the Encyclopedia. I'm not sure though, and they could have been wrong. [QUOTE] And, gee golly, the decommissioning dialogue is supported by the presence of a brand new USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B in a film prologue set only a few years later. I think I win this one. [/QUOTE]Ahh, right. Now, see, you're arguing two points here. Point one is that the ship was scheduled for decommisioning after it's current mission. Point two is that the ship was scheduled for decomissioning due to the large amount of damage that it received. Now, true, that would be a very snap decision for Starfleet to make. Presumably they received a notification of the Enterprise's damage shortly after The Day Was Saved. An unknown amount of time passes between that and the Excelsior leaving, but it's probably a few hours (and less than a day). That would be a rapid decision from an organisation that tells to waffle any chance it gets. But it's still perfectly possibly that the ship wasn't planning on being decomissioned at that point. Starfleet just wanted to decommision the senior crew. However, when the ship got back, someone said "Holy shit! This thing looks a mess. Why don't we decommision it and make one of the new Excelsior-class ships an Enterprise, eh?" Even if it wasn't that badly damaged, there are plenty of other reasons why they might have decomisioned the ship. As a way of honouring Kirk and co. As a sop to the Klingons to help the peace process. As a way of giving good press to the new Excelsior class line. And, of course, there are a few years between STVI and Generations. Plenty of time for the ship to get destroyed. If it's been decomissioned, why isn't it in the fleet museum, eh? (There's no way that Picard would say "There's one in the fleet museum" if it was an Enterprise. In fact, there's no way he wouldn't mention to Scotty that his old ship isn't still in the Fleet museum.) [QUOTE] The Enterprise-Nil is schedules to be retired in Star Trek III ... I forget how old the Admiral states she is, but I know he's off by a few decades, she's what, forty at that point?[/QUOTE]He says "twenty", but yeah, he's wrong. 5 Years under April, 10 under Pike, another 5 under Kirk, 2 and a half year refit, potentially another 5 year mission under Kirk, faffing around as a training vessel for an amount of time that I can't remember. 40 sounds about right. Of course, Starfleet is a bit eratic with ship ages. Riker says in "All Good Things" that the Ent-D was going to be decomissioned before it even hit 30, and that was a ship designed to last 100 years. The only possibility would be if the ship was badly damaged, and that would support the notion that Starfleet prefers to decomission ships rather than repair them (for god knows what reason). The "ships from the same time period" is more valid, although there are still some qualifiers. Oberths are pretty much just tiny science ships. Some are even crewed by civilians. There are obviously not anywhere near state of the art, and can be run by a small crew (yeah, the Pegasus throws a spanner into these works, and I shall explain that by, er, look over there!) Excelsiors are at least twenty years newer than Constitutions, and possibly even more. It's also possible that, like Galaxy's, they were designed to "last". But they are still far from state of the art, and often implied to be old: "They send you Galaxy-class boys out to the far regions. Me, I just haul my butt back and forth between Starbases." "That's a lot of fire-power for an old Excelsior-class ship." I don't think we've ever seen a Constellation in proper service, have we? You've got the Stargazer, which was a relic; the Hathaway, which meant so little so Starfleet that they just left it uncrewed in orbit of some random planet; and a ship in Picard's rapidly pulled together (so rapidly that half the ships didn't have full crews) fleet in Redemption II. They could easily be a retired line. And Mirandas are, well, freaks. Complete, honest to goodness freaks. If they were just like the Lantree, then fair enough, but with examples like the Saratoga having [i]families[/i], the only possible explanation is that, somehow, they are incredibly versatile ships that are extremely cheap to build, or something. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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