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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sol System: [QB] That's a pretty weird interpretation, though. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>akb1979</b> <br /><small>Member # 557</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,30,13,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 30, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:05 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but making models is creative . . . isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /><br />Anyway, does anyone have this kit, specifically the instructions? I ask because a friend of mine gave me his copy after he'd finished with it and I recall there being info regarding the crew. Now I can't find it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> It told us how many science and medical staff, how many engineers, security people and command people the Enterprise typically had a board.<br /><br />If anyone has this info I'd really appreciate it if you could share it with me! Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Woodside Kid</b> <br /><small>Member # 699</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,31,3,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:38 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> According to the instructions, the ship is supposed to have:<br /><br />55 officers of command rank<br />136 medical and scientific research personnel<br />132 engineering specialists<br />15 communication specialists<br />90 member security force<br /><br />428 total crew<br /><br /><br />This does not agree with the crew complement given on the TMP blueprints (72 officers, 428 crew, 500 total) or the two on-screen complements given:<br /><br />TMP (from the 83 expanded and DVD DE versions):<br />172 at station<br />248 off duty<br />11 in sickbay<br />431 total<br /><br />TUC (Valeris' line): "We have a crew of 300..." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,31,5,21,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:21 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 300 sure sounds more accurate than 431!<br />Holy shit: with 43 people aboard, you'd have to elbow your way through the corridors!<br />Even with a crew of 300, most would have to "hot rack" bunks and privacy would be nonexistant.<br /> <br />Crazy.<br /><br /><br />Waaaaay to uber-military for Trek IMHO.<br /><br />You know what edition of the model you have?<br />Starshipmodeler.com has a archive of model instructions- search there for starters nad mabye PM Soundeffect as well.<br />If that doesn't work, go ask Mr. Owl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>SoundEffect</b> <br /><small>Member # 926</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,31,6,58,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:58 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hi there! If you need the instructions itself, I can scan them for you, but I'm really encouraging you to avoid the paint sufggestions as they're almost all wrong. If it was just the officer callouts, you got your answer above. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>akb1979</b> <br /><small>Member # 557</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,31,10,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:42 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Thanks folks!<br /><br /><b>Woodside Kid</b> - That sounds right - add Kirk and Spock and you get the 430 crew limit and sounds right to what I remember.<br /><br />As for the model, don't know what edition my friend has as<br />a) it was years ago, and<br />b) he's since thrown it away (he broke it and couldn't be arsed to fix it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> )<br /><br /><b>SoundEffect</b> - thanks, but the crew info was all that I was after! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /><br />Thanks again folks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,31,18,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:16 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <i>Enterprise</i> could have been understrength in TMP. Ditto for TUC. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />The TOS <i>Enterprise</i> allegedly had either 400 or 430, depending on which source you want to go with and whether you think it's plausible that Kirk was rounding down. Naturally they wanted the movie ship to be bigger, hence the suggestion of 500 for TMP.<br /><br />There's no way the movie era ship could hold 428 crew in those two-person suites Shane Johnson drew for <i>Mr Scott's Guide</i>, but TUC showed rooms about the same size with three triple bunks. Based on that, I think such a crew is plausible, and they still have it better than real warship crews. I generally don't like the redressed TNG sets used in St VI, but in this case I'd make an exception.<br /><br />>>>>>WARNING: SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION AHEAD<<<<<<br />I haven't mustered the enthusiam to to do the crew yet, but awhile back I did a breakdown of the 72 officers, based on Bob Fletcher's behind-the-scenes notes about the department & organization breakdown of the movie-era <i>Enterprise</i>, with a little tinkering from Intruder1701 (who has real-world naval experience, and was able to shed some light for me on how things are organized). <br /><br />You can see the breakdown <a href="http://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/6/2390/6.html#000076" target="_blank">here</a>:<br /><br /><br />Marian<br /><br />This random sig quote is brought to you by Star Wars Galaxies:<br />[i]"My lizard has a mass capacity of 65k." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,9,31,21,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Nice</b> work Marian, but I'd probably boost the officer count to four for most key departments (Radiation control for example ).<br />That way there would always be one officer on duty per shift and an alternate to cover absentses or leaves.<br /><br />AS to cramming all those crew into the ship: it's really too much to believe: I know they were making blatant comnparisons with modern mmilitary ships in CTVI, but c'mon: hundreds of years of technological advancment should yield far more automation (thus less crew) than what was depicted in that movie.<br />The explanation is that Enterprise-A was used (much as her predacessor) as a training vessel towards the end of her operational life nad starfleet wants it's crews to be able to do everything manually in case of emergencies.<br /><br />Mabye <i>Excelsior</i> has those cool two-person crew quarters from Mr. Scott's guide. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Woodside Kid</b> <br /><small>Member # 699</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,1,1,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> We also don't have any evidence for either of the on-screen figures I mentioned being the <i>normal</i> operational complement of the <i>Enterprise</i>. You could reasonably make an argument that each of those situations is unusual. In TMP, the ship is being booted out of spacedock early and thus may be carrying more (or less) than her usual manning. As for TUC, the mission is essentially supposed to be a milk run escort; presumably she would not require her usual complement of scientists. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,1,6,14,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:14 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:<br /><strong> <b>Nice</b> work Marian</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you!<br /><br /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>but I'd probably boost the officer count to four for most key departments (Radiation control for example ).<br />That way there would always be one officer on duty per shift and an alternate to cover absentses or leaves.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Believe me, I would love to add to the list. More than one scientist per specialty, for starters. I had a really hard time keeping it down to 72. But that's the problem--I had to fit all the necessary jobs into that 72 officers limit.<br /><br />I don't think there needs to be a fourth person, though; if there's an absense, someone pulls a double shift. I have no RL military experience, but I've had civilian jobs like that--if I got sick or took a vacation day, they had to wake someone up. Needless to say, I took responsibility for not getting sick, and vacationed on the weekends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br /><br /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>AS to cramming all those crew into the ship: it's really too much to believe: I know they were making blatant comnparisons with modern mmilitary ships in CTVI, but c'mon: hundreds of years of technological advancment should yield far more automation (thus less crew) than what was depicted in that movie.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They do have less crew. The USS <i>Blue Ridge</i> is two-thirds the length of <i>Enterprise</i>, and has a crew of 819. Plus 240 staff personnel (she's a command ship). And the <i>Kitty Hawk</i> has ten times the <i>Enterprise</i> crew (5000) while being only 50m longer.<br /><br />Franz Joseph's deck plans of the TOS <i>Enterprise</i> found room for 430, using only the TV show set (albiet sometimes with as many as four beds per room, for the crew quarters). And the movie-era ship's primary hull is enough wider to have a whole 'nother ring of rooms around the rim, on two decks. <br /><br />In short, I think it's believable. But I think my iconoclasm is pretty much established at this point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br /><br />Marian<br /><br /><br />This random sig quote is brought to you by Jim McCarthy:<br /><i>"According to the specifications in the manual, fully loaded and charged, tanks and all, it should have weighed no more than 11.1 kilos--but somewhere along the way we lost the decimal point and Duke wouldn't let me go back and look for it."</i><br />--David Gerrold, <i>A Matter For Men</i> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,1,8,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:50 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Valid points: I just think a ship of exploration would have far more science gear/equipment than crew.<br />Of course that's more in keeping the TOS mission than the more militaristic role shown in the movies.<br /><br />I guess the Enterprise-A was never really an Exporer though.<br />Sad that.<br /><br />I just see Starfleet ships having scientific work for crew to do instead of them just manning posts and being crammed in bunks like sardines (or submariners). <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>akb1979</b> <br /><small>Member # 557</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,1,11,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:39 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:<br /><strong> <b>Nice</b> work Marian, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll second that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> Very nice, I'm just going to save those 8 pages for future reference - with perticular preference to the page you directed us too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>jesus X</b> <br /><small>Member # 1201</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,1,14,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:51 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hundreds of years of technological advancment should yield far more automation (thus less crew) than what was depicted in that movie.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Modern Aircraft carriers have 5000 crew, but not because we couldn't automate a lot of it. In fact, we could probably have carriers with 1200 people and a lot more automation. But, when the bad guys come knocking, it's good to have lots of extra self programming computers to pitch in and keep things moving and fighting, so we have large crews. And, to keep those crew busy, we cut back on automation, so they have stuff to do (and to cut back on complexity and points of failure). <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,2,0,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:31 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Thus yielding a less advanced ship overall.<br />Most "mosern aircraft carriers" have one sole function: to allow for the employ of aircraft.<br />Everyone aboard serves that goal in some way.<br /><br />Enterprise is more like a WWII battleship than a modern carrier- but with the same<i> exact</i> level of automation!<br />Silly. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,2,7,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:26 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:<br /><strong> Enterprise is more like a WWII battleship than a modern carrier- but with the same<i> exact</i> level of automation!<br />Silly. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, it must really suck for those guys in Engineering who have to shovel antimatter into the reaction chamber by hand.<br /><br />Except, of course, they don't do that, which neatly underscores how totally wrong you are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /><br />I also don't get where this "more crew = less of a scientific mission" thing of yours is coming from. 23rd century ships are just a little more crowded, is all.<br /><br /><br />Marian<br /><br />This random sig quote is brought to you by <a href="http://www.sluggy.com" target="_blank">Sluggy Freelance</a>:<br /><i>"I don't care how you rationalize it, it's mean to nuke us."</i> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,2,7,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jesus X:<br /><strong> [QUOTE]But, when the bad guys come knocking, it's good to have lots of extra self programming computers to pitch in and keep things moving and fighting, so we have large crews. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which is a less grim way of saying the ship needs to be able to continue functioning if it takes casualties. If you staff a ship with exactly the number of people you need, and then some of them get sucked on by a salt monster or turned into a styrofoam dodecahydron, well, you're screwed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br /><br />Marian<br /><br />This random sig quote is brought to you by Hildy Johnson:<br /><i>"When I'm feeling festive I might put on a colorful skirt, more of a sarong, really, and never fret about the hemline. But most of what I wear wouldn't have raised eyebrows if I had gone back in time and walked the streets in the years before sex changing."</i><br />--John Varley, <i>Steel Beach</i> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,2,12,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:09 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Woodside Kid:<br /><strong>TUC (Valeris' line): "We have a crew of 300..." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Addendum: I never took that line to mean the total crew numbered 300, but rather that 300 of the crew had been detailed to that task. The whole line was something like, "we have a crew of 300 searching their quarters," or some such. Other crewman were searching the halls and so on, and I'm sure even with the urgency of the search and Kirk's life and all, there were a few guys down in Engineering making sure the ship didn't blow up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br /><br />Marian<br /><br />This random sig quote is brought to you by Margaret Morecock:<br /><i>"It takes a special kind of butch to wear a Victorian lace skirt."</i> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,2,19,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That's a pretty weird interpretation, though. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,2,22,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Very.<br />Splitting hairs, Marion. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,3,6,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:18 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You think so? To me the line sounds weird if it IS supposed to refer to the entire crew. If Valeris meant the whole crew, why wouldn't she have said "the crew is searching their quarters." She didn't even say <i>the</i> crew, she said <i>a</i> crew.<br /><br />I don't have a problem with the <i>Enterprise</i> being undermanned for TUC, and I really don't care exactly how many people are on board, but I just don't get that impression from the Valeris dialogue.<br /><br /><br />Marian<br /><br />This random sig quote is brought to you by the FineScale Modeler Forums:<br /><i>"Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission."</i> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jason Abbadon</b> <br /><small>Member # 882</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,3,6,37,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:37 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I just dont see what the <i>heck</i> even 300 people could <i>possibly</i> have to do on a ship that can operate <i>just fine</i> with a crew of far less than 50 (STIII, STV).<br /><br />Watching STVI is like watching any Tom Clancy novel made into a (*sort of) sci-fi movie. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MarianLH</b> <br /><small>Member # 1102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,10,3,19,7,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 03, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:07 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yes, because even normally the <i>Enterprise</i> is outmatched by a 12-man Klingon runabout, even after getting the drop on him before he can raise his shields. You're just being silly at this point.<br /><br /><br />Marian <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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