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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ahkileez: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Reverend: [qb] First off, I didn't ascribe ownership of Trek to anyone. Secondly if [i]" The realities of the Trek world dictate how you see it."[/i] and [i]"The crap on screen is nothing more or less than the product of lazy writers"[/i] then I have to ask, why are you watching something that you think is crap?[/QUOTE]The answer to that is simple, if self-serving. I like blinky lights. I like technowidgets. I loved DS9 because behind the widgets there was solid acting and a good story. I liked all the shows, but TNG the least. But I never have bought into the 'ideal' of Trek, because no matter how much Picard ran down 'lesser' peoples from his high-horse, he solved 90% of his problems with his ship's guns. [QUOTE]As for TOS being militant, that was simply not so (nor for that matter was DS9). Again, as I pointed out before the confusion seams to come from an inability to distinguish the difference between killing someone in self defence or killing them because you didn't like they way they're looking at you.[/QUOTE]I don't see where the need is for insulting my comprehension. DS9 and TOS' trek worlds were much different than the tripe offered up by TNG. They were darker, and the original Enterprise had a far more miltiary feel, despite the spandex and miniskirts. It's TNG that turned Trek into a hippie commune in space. [QUOTE]As for comparing Starfleet to a modern ocean surveyor armed with nukes is a gross over exaggeration and betrays a total lack of comprehension.[/QUOTE]Again with the insults. Can't you argue intelligently without ad hominem attacks? [QUOTE]The oceans of today are NOTHING like space in the fictional 23rd or 24th centuries. If you must draw a nautical allegory then perhaps the Royal Navy of the 17 & 1800's would be more appropriate. Back then it wasn't unusual for a military ship to sail for reasons other than those of a purely military nature. The six gun HMS Beagle being a famous example or indeed the voyages of John Harrison.[/QUOTE]The fact that these ships were built, first and foremost, as warships is somehow negated because they were temporarily assigned to other duties? If somewhere in the oceans a vessel belonging to one of the navies of the world is carrying food to a storm-ravaged island, does that make that navy a peaceful, humanitarian organization? It does not, because the core of that organization is always the same: Military. How many times does one have to be slapped in the face by uniforms, ranks, badges, court martials, stockades, orders, mission reports, promotions and outright warfare before admitting Starfleet is not the NOAA? [QUOTE]Now I wouldn't take that allegory too far as by all accounts Starfleet is primarily an exploitive agency. To my thinking they were only charged with the defence of the Federation because A) They're out there already B) in the early days they were the only organisation with sufficient experience to do the job that WASN'T a standing military (like say the Andorian Guard or the Vulcan High Command) and so were the only ones trusted by all sides to co-ordinate defence and police the mutual borders and of course B) they were open to members from all worlds.[/QUOTE]Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Ascribing motivations without foundation. Calling Earth's space program "Starfleet" was the most colossal blunder Enterprise made, but it doesn't justify thinking that huge alien states like the Vulcans and the Andorians, with much larger space forces and far better equipped vessels would roll over simply because Archer and his friends smiled a lot and happened to be out there. [QUOTE]The closest thing in sci-fi that I know of would be the Rangers on B5, at least after the ISA was formed. To keep the peace, not enforce the peace. HUGE difference. [/qb][/QUOTE]I'd love to know how one keeps the peace without enforcing it. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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