posted
So anyway, three movies are playing this evening on swedish TV; "Rosemary's Baby", "Cujo" and "The Exorcist", one after the other.
The first two I knew about, and although I'm intrigued by Polanski and have wanted to see it for a long time, the timing was wrong and I purposely stayed away from it, I have enough trouble getting to sleep as it is, in the swedish summer heat.
"The Exorcist" blindsided me, though. I didn't know it was about to play, and so I got caught in the beginning of it when just zapping by and now I can't stop watching. My only consolation is that this isn't the Special Edition and I don't have to watch the "spider-walk".
The discussions at IMDB were kind of short on material when I looked, so I thought it best to check with you guys.
Here they are:
1: After Father Merrin on the archeological dig has found what looks like a small statue of a demon, he later says in his office, like from an epiphany, "You must fight evil with evil" or something like it, what did that mean to him? He didn't use dark powers in the exorcism, so what did it mean to Merrin directly, fighting evil with evil?
2: When Damien Karras dreamt about his mother passing away, where he saw her come up from a subway staircase, then turn around and descend again, we see one flashing frame of a third person, black hair, pale skin and red/green eyes, I think. That face is seen again during the middle of the exorcism, I think, just flashing by, and it didn't look like the final Possessed-Karras. If someone had screencaps of the face in Karras' dream and Possessed-Karras, maybe we could get some clarity. I guessed it was meant to be the devil, and I always hate frame-flashes like that, it sticks.
3: What did Father Karras ask Regan/Demon in latin, in their first meeting? At first the demon simply answered "Bonjour" to the latin question, but then answered in latin. I didn't catch any "diabolo" or "Deus" in it, which is why I got confused about the content.
4: In the middle of the actual exorcism, Regan/Demon is levitating silently, in the shape of a crucifix (arms out to the sides), is it "God" trying to "compel" the demon, like Karras and Merrin is chanting? She seems too calm and silent to be doing it of her own, as all her other demon acts are very noisy and random.
5: When Possessed-Karras has jumped out through the window and is lying still on the pavement, bleeding but not dead, his friend the other priest rushes up to him, and suddenly starts asking him something like "do you repent your sins" or something, and then gives him absolution (that I did get). Why? The friend couldn't know Karras had jumped out of the window himself, or been possessed by the demon, so how could he make assumptions? Or was he trying to take confession from Karras, believing him to have attempted suicide and gone against The Word?
6: I was in the kitchen when Father Merrin slumped to the floor, why did he get a seizure? Was it just heart problems or did the demon kill him itself, with PSI-powers or damnation?
7: Did Merrin and Karras return for any of the sequels? Or did they both really die in the end of this, the first movie?
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Wow, you got a lot out of that for one viewing. I'll try and answer what I can. The first two questions I'm not sure about (it's been a really long time since I've seen the movie).
Karras and Regan / Pazuzu's conversation went like this:
Regan "Mirabile dictu, don't you agree?" Miraculous to talk about, don't you agree?
Father Karras "You speak Latin?"
Regan "Ego te absolvo." I pronounce you clean (forgiven).
Father Karras "Quod nomen mihi est?" What is my name?
Regan "Bon Jour" Good Day
Father Karras "Quod nomen mihi est?" What is my name?
Regan "La plume de ma tante." The pen (or quill) of my aunt.
This is purely speculation on my part but my impression was that when Regan / Pazuzu levitated and formed the crucifix, she was merely taunting them rather then it being God's influence on her.
When the Priest ran up to the dying Karras and granted him absolution, he was performing the Sacrament of Reconciliation by which the sins Karras committed after baptism are forgiven. It is the Sacrament which "reconciles" us with God and brings us back into "union with Him." He was helping him absolve his sins before he died, which he would have done to anyone before death, regardless of it being suicide or possession, etc.
Merrin simply died of a heart attack while performing the ritual. No foul play by the demon involved.
Father Merrin appeared in "Exorcist Two: The Heretic" (a terrible sequel) but only in a flashback to the original exorcism. Both he and Karras are in fact really dead. Merrin will appear again as his younger self in the Exorcist Prequel that will be coming out soon but rumour has it that the movies really bad.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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posted
Good answers. Naturally Karras' friend did the Last Rites, I was so focused on figuring out acting motives that I missed the classic catholic custom.
Pazuzu called Karras a "quill"? In what ethnic universe is this an insult? Or do you think he was just talking latin jibberish to try and impress Karras? Or does "Karras being Pazuzu's aunt's pen" mean that Karras unknowingly has committed deeds beneficial to Pazuzu and his kind, writing their messages for them?
I noticed another thing. When Karras was briefing Merrin, while walking up the stairs, he says that Regan seems to have channeled three persons so far, but Merrin responds "No, there are always only one." This is one of the best lines in the whole movie for me, so piercing and clear, respect to Merrin.
However, this opened up a can of metaphysical worms for me. Did Merrin really think that the demon was Pazuzu, from Sumerian/Akkadian mythology?
Motives for this is the repeated exposure of the little Pazuzu-statuette found in the dirt of Iraq in the beginning, coupled with Merrin later that day walking right into a giant stone gargoyle of the same shape in the desert (assuming the sequence wasn't just a dream of Merrin's). Later, Karras inspects some kitchen kiddydrawings by Regan, one with an insect-winged lion and other shapes that are ascribed to Pazuzu in legend (everything but the snake penis), so the case seems very clear, but for the fact that I didn't hear the name "Pazuzu" mentioned even once in last night's movie. Is it perhaps only mentioned in the "Special Edition"??
Now on the other hand, the demon introduces itself as the Devil to Karras, and hates Jesus, Holy Water and Crucifixes, items that were totally inconsequential and irrelevant during the time of the Summerians and Accadians, who were only extant in the Old Testament, IIRC. So why would Pazuzu be irritated by a new kid (Jesus) and customs (crucifix, New Testament incantations) that came along eons after Pazuzu's golden years?
Also, from the brief research I've done about Pazuzu today, nothing seems to indicate that he was a ruler of the underworld or over the sinful dead, but this demon channels both Burke and Karras' mom and says that she performs fellatio in Hell, which doesn't seem typical for a Sumerian Wind-demon to say.
A third variant is that Pazuzu and Satan are one and the same, two interpretations (jewish and Sumerian) of the same entity, from different times.
Thoughts?
Also, when Regan's body levitates, scars and deep scratch-wounds appear spontaneously un her legs, when Merrin and Karras are chanting and spraying water all over the place. Who made these attacks? Pazuzu was inside Regan, or so I thought.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I think the quill reference and the bon jour were just jibberish meant to impress Karras or taunt him.
Pazuzu, though never actually mentioned by name in the first movie, was simply taken from the fact that they used an actual Pazuzu statue. How that relates to Judeo-Christian belief in the movie though is beyond me. Pazuzu travels from host to host via locusts (which is gone into in more detail in the second movie) and according to this site was not entirely evil. In fact talismans of Pazuzu were worn on babies as a protector demon.
I think the marks were made on her body by Pazuzu as a warning to the Priests that he could destroy her if he wanted to.
The sequel is laughably awful, but may be worth a rental if you're interested in learning a bit of the backstory of Father Merrin and the Pazuzu demon. There's also another "good" demon played by James Earl Jones of all people.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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posted
Well, I have never seen the film, but it obviously takes place in a world where Christianity, specifically Catholicism, Works, so why the surprise about a demon (or other spiritual entity) being affected by God?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
There's no surprise on my part, and it's certainly possible that Regan / Pazuzu could have been affected by God in the context of the story, but since they never state that definitively it's left up to your determination to decide who was responsible.
To me, I got the impression that the levitation and forming of the crucifix were the act of the demon taunting the two priests, which is a recurring theme throughout the exorcism.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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I think they just used the name "Pazuzu" because "Huwwawa" would sound silly to 1970's audiences.
I'm curious as to how they grouped "Cujo" in there with Christian themed movies like "Rosemary's Baby" and "The Exorcist".... If it's a Polanski thing, they should've gone for the (really lame, but not as lame as Cujo) movie "The Ninth Gate".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Cujo is a Christian themed movie. If that dog was not the spawn of Satan and Old Yeller, I don't know what is.
God that movie was awful.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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posted
Rosemary and Cujo was on Channel 4, Exorcist was on Channel 2, so there was no planning between the channels. For the Channel 4 evening layout, the theme was "horror", not necessarily "religious horror". They have been showing the "Omen"-series as well, a month ago.
About the exorcism and the Good Side's hand in it, the only things that worked was holy water and some right-hooks from an irish-greek priest holding a girl down to the floor. What happened was that Pazuzu had to work on Regan for weeks to get hold of her and assert itself over her, and I suspect Karras knew this, so that when he confronted her/it and said "Take me instead!", he offered it a bait it couldn't resist, but then remained in control over himself, after the initial "installation" had subsided and the yellow-green eyes had reverted to brown. So it was courage, guts and sacrifice that bested Pazuzu, I have no idea how the hell (sick) Marrin went about his former exorcism in Africa, as his tricks didn't seem to work at all this time.
Sol System: "Well, I have never seen the film, but it obviously takes place in a world where Christianity, specifically Catholicism, Works/.../"
Actually, there were no indications at all, that I saw, that showed that the Exorcism had any effect. I suggest you see the movie, Sol, it is tough but it is a very solid part of movie history, really holds up to the test of time. See the "Special Edition", even, I hear it's been restored in many other ways than just additional scenes, with sound and image quality.
Anyway, if there were no palpable signs of God/Jesus in the room, we at least have ample evidence that the evil side was present. Just before or after (I think after) Regan's levitation, a large vision plays out in the room, which I think both priests see; it looked like a big, oval cardassian viewscreen, in the left of it we see the giant Pazuzu-statue from the desert, and to the right of it is a person snarling and striking in the air, seemingly frustrated and bewildered, with long hair and animal skins or rags covering it. I thought it was the devil acting like it was losing the fight over Regan with Merrin. It is filmed against the sunset, so the person's features remain dark.
The segment totally reminded me of the ending of "The Passion Of The Christ", where the devil rips his/her robe off and screams to the heavens in anger, after having been weakened and ethically bested by Jesus.
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I've seen bits and pieces. It doesn't really appeal to me. Anyway, the Catholic priests are specifically endowed with devil-busting skills, so I see no reason not to take their claims (in the film) at face value.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I totally saw a trailer for like, some prequel or shit. It looked like arse, but I want to make a movie about a fallen Lucifer and Heaven and Hell and Earth but neat.
Like angel knights with swords and maybe Michael Douglas as a businessman.
Registered: Oct 1999
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You should get the Academy's Lifetime Achievment Award for not ever making a movie.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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