posted
Ok, Jonah, first off if you actually read what I said, you'll see I was using a STEP niece as an example. As in NOT the spawn of my brother's loins and not related to me in any biological way. The POINT being and I want to make this very clear lest this discussion slide from creepy to downright disgusting is that genetics doesn't enter into it, seriously thinking a close family member is an acceptable candidate for a sexual relationship is just fucked up. Now, I'm no Catholic, I wasn't even raised Church of England but I still know what immoral is when it hits me in the face.
To my mind, in a modern society, living in a densely populated community, there's no excuse for that kind of mountain boy behaviour. Sure, in certain isolated areas or insular communities or in times gone by when the nearest person who wasn't a direct relation was a three day horse ride away, the sister who can't run quite as fast is the only show in town and that is the reality of those situations and in such cases interbreeding is unavoidable or even necessary. The thing is I don't believe either of us or anyone hear live in that kind of world, so it remains categorically wrong. End of.
quote:Hmm...this animated movie was popular, was it? Everyone keeps talking about the difficulty of 'replacing' the voice actors. I never saw it, having heard from the LotR fans I knew that it was mildly silly and mostly not very good.
I tend to agree. I've seen both the animated Hobbit cartoon and the rotascoped LotR flicks and frankly they're both crap. I don't see how anyone could hold either of them dear and complain that Jackson's film strayed too far from the books. I mean really! That film had Sam characterised as a bumbling idiot, Treebeard was a walking potato and Saurman looked and sounded like an Adam West Batman villan. That plus the small detail that the whole thing ended at Helms deep.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Hmm...this animated movie was popular, was it? Everyone keeps talking about the difficulty of 'replacing' the voice actors. I never saw it, having heard from the LotR fans I knew that it was mildly silly and mostly not very good.
Don't worry - I never saw it either. To me it's like saying that the Lord of the Rings cartoon was a definitve 'version' that would be very hard to replace.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
"That plus the small detail that the whole thing ended at Helms deep."
They were going to make the other half, but the first one flopped, so there was no money. Eventually, the people who made The Hobbit sort of finished it up by making The Return of the King (in the style of The Hobbit).
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Rev, I know what you typed. I was just saying, biological or step, the line between second and third degrees of relatedness has been the cutoff more often than between third and fourth. And your attitude just drives home how ingrained it is in Western European culture and its descendents.
*ahem*
The Bakshi "animated" LotR just freaked me the hell out. I've tried to watch it a couple different times, and it just leaves me cold each time. That is not what I'm being nostalgic over.
The Rankin/Bass animated Hobbit and Return of the King offerings were higher quality, allowing for their distinctive art style. The songs were hit-or-miss (I'm not a huge fan of "The Greatest Adventure" or "The Road Goes Ever On", but I love most of the rest), but the score I love.
But the aspect that resonates the most with me even now were the vocal performances. They had some pretty darn good actors, with pretty darn distinctive voices. And that's what I'm hoping they try to capture -- not the exact performances, but the sense of the characters. Thorin, Smaug... Andy Serkis captured a lot of the same essence of Gollum from these films. *shrug*
I recommend renting those two just to see what I'm talking about. They're rather childish in their delivery, but you should see what I mean.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: I'm waiting for someone to start singing Ray Steven's "I'm My Own Grandpa". Also known as the official State Song of Arkansas.
Read "All You Zombies".
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I don't think I've ever seen them in Australia - only the Bakshi movie. It's quite 'dark' isn't it?
I had HEARD that some other studio had 'finished off' RotK but... never seen it.
The Bakshi movie is very muddy, and it's hard to tell what's going on a lot of the time.
As for the R/B movies... Here is the first chunck of The Hobbit. Watch as much as you want of that and/or Return of the King, which is linked in the side index. For this first bit, you'll probably have to turn up the volume a bit before you clicky. And whatever else, I do recommend you watch the conversation between Bilbo and Smaug, in part 6.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
That is your yardstick for quality? Really? I shouldn't worry about Jackson miscasting; his track record so far has been spot on. As for Serkis, I highly doubt he took anything from that film into his performance. Any similarity you might read into it is just what comes right off the page. I mean, come on, Gollum is one of the most well realised characters in the whole LotR saga, indeed one of the few to actually have some depth and range to their character, so of course the various performances are going to have similarities.
As for Smaug, I didn't see anything special in that voice work, at least not to the point of being worthy of emulation. To my mind Smaug should sound intellegent and not have so much bluster about him. Though thinking about it Blessed could probably pull it off. If he weren't already playing Saruman, Lee might be a good choice too. Slightly off beat, but maybe John Hurt would be a good choice, that is if they don't have him doing Radagast (I assume he was at the white council?)
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: (And specifically, cousins aren't nearly as close as nieces in terms of family, at least not in my family, or any of my friends' families. There's a whole different dynamic there. And many people in this country have married their cousins, and as Peregrinus pointed out, the royal and noble families are *still* doing it. Go on, tell an Englishman his queen is a disgusting pervert
Surely Royal Families aren't a good example if you want to show how marrying your cousins produces well rounded normal human beings.
The problem isn't so much you marrying your cousin. That, as you say, would probably turn out fine. That's what the reports show. However, the reports are also only valid for first-time cousin relationship. What if your children marry their cousins? And then those children marry theirs? You're going to get abnormalities leaping up all over the place.
God forbid I quote Wikipedia, but:
"A BBC Report, however, found that Pakistanis in Britain, 55% of whom marry a first cousin, are 13 times more likely than the general population to produce children with genetic disorders, and that one in ten children of cousin marriages either dies in infancy or develops a serious disability. Thus Pakistani-Britons, who account for some 3% of all births in the UK, produce "just under a third" of all British children with genetic illnesses."
One of the main points of procreation is to spread genes around, not pass themm back and forth between Cousin Bob and Cousin Billy. So yeah, marry your cousin all you want. Just don't be surprised if your great-great grandson falls over and dies because his blood doesn't clot properly.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
"Just don't be surprised if your great-great grandson falls over and dies because his blood doesn't clot properly."
Although, to be fair, Queen Victoria seems to have spontaneously developed her hemophilia gene, not inherited it. Or, at best, her father wasn't really her father, in which case the inbreeding probably still wasn't the problem.
Or she got bitten by a werewolf. You decide.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Also, the Ptolemy dynasty of Egypt seemed to be going along fine until the Romans steamrolled over them. Eight generations of brothers marrying sisters -- except one where an uncle married his niece -- and the end result was Cleopatra. *heh*
But if we can get back to the Hobbit... Sorry, Rev. Late '70s animation wasn't the best the world has ever produced, but the Hobbit was pretty good for its time, and I think the score, some of the songs, and several of the voice performances still stand up. I didn't expect everyone to agree. Just wanted those who hadn't seen it to see it and make their own decisions.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Oh I know the animation is what it is, nothing wrong from that point of view. actually some of the backgrounds are rather good. What I was referring to was the voice acting and characterisation. It's not a casting problem because I know Roddy McDowell can do MUCH better than that. Bottom line it's a kiddies film and treats itself as such so it's all in very broad strokes. It's not a matter of holding up, it was just as hokey back in the 70's. Don't get me started on the score or the songs though.
posted
Dude... Just ignore John Huston's narration at the beginning and just listen to the music behind it. That has given me chills for thirty years.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Well I wasn't claiming it makes genetic sense over the long run, just that it isn't 'wrong' or 'perverted' to be attracted to or marry a cousin. Finis.
How come Sauron didn't notice every time Bilbo used the ring throughout The Hobbit?
Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
