Now, here in Canada, minimum wage is $5.75/h, but you all know how much the Canadian dollar is worth these days Fortunately, for the labour I do, my boss pays me $8/h, which is very generous of him.

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"Weirdness doesn't frighten me. Ten-foot-tall purple wombats with shaving-cream-covered broadswords singing 'Kumbayah'... Now, that scares me..."
-Tim Nix

Omega, do you work part-time? Will you have to work part time, or are mummy and daddy paying for your education, clothes, nights out, and university? Because those of us who had to work to get through college, and who have to work to get through university, are usually thrilled when the minimum wage goes up, because we get paid in real money, rather than beans. (And not even magic beans, natch).

And Los Angeles is not expensive; it's a chanllenge to keep yourself sane and alive!!!

"Need we bring up Dubya's SAT scores?"

Need we bring up Gore's? Oh, wait. He refuses to release his academic records. I wonder why...

"Knowing the name of the leader of your nation's largest trading partner is not trivia, it's a basic requirement."

Like heck it is. You can even converse with someone all day without knowing their name. I know. I've done it. Dealing with foreign affairs should be a lot simpler. Besides, what does the man's name matter? That's like asking me who actually first proposed the minimum wage, and then when I can't tell you, assuming I'm unqualified to talk about it. It doesn't matter who did. It's still a bad idea. And when he starts having conversations with the man, all he has to do is find out his name.

Go ask Al what he thinks of the English lord Earl Gray and see what he says.

Jay:

"So, the Labor Department was just fibbing when it said that 60% of people working for below $6.15 were "adults.""

Adult defined as being twenty and over. Do you have any idea how many college students work at fast food restaraunts? As for the non-students, how long were they working there? You make assumptions without all the facts.

"And I just imagine that the 67 year old guy working at the local drive through window, passing out burgers is doing it for "a little extra cash.""

Likely, yes. That man would be recieving social security, have all his medical bills paid by the government, and probably has some sort of retirement fund from a previous career. For all you know, he was just looking for something to do with his time. Again, assumption without fact behind it.

"Numbers certainly do mean something."

Only when used properly, and everything is taken into account. Something you don't do.

"These numbers aren't meaningless for all those people you seem to want to live in a cardboard box on Los Angeles street."

Again, you are twisting my words, you twit. I never even REMOTELY implied that I wanted this. Stop making such radical assumptions, or you simply reduce yourself to a specticle.

"who's going to do your back breaking labor for you...wash your dishes when it 100 outside or dig your ditches in the sun??? Whoever it is sure as heck had better get a bigger share of the take than $5.15 an hour."

Then they can demand more money. The only way that that wouldn't work is if there are actually people out that that CAN live off that. Or you're completely off like I'm saying, and very few people actually live off of minimum wage.

Liam:

"Omega, do you work part-time?"

No, but I'm hoping to get a job soon, preferably at the library that's opening near my house this December.

"Will you have to work part time, or are mummy and daddy paying for your education, clothes, nights out, and university?"

You, too, make vast assumptions. I homeschool, which has a relatively low overhead. My clothing needs are simple (I love those $5 tee-shirts from Sam's), so that's not a problem. I don't have very many "nights out", but my parents usually pay for what little they cost (most of them are church-related). And when I go to college, I can easily get a great scholarship (scored a 33 on my ACT, and I'm just entering my Jr. year). But since it probably won't be a FULL scholarship, I do intend to pay for what of it I can.

"those of us who had to work to get through college, and who have to work to get through university, are usually thrilled when the minimum wage goes up, because we get paid in real money"

Still, assuming that you can FIND a job after the minimum wage goes up. Again, you ignore that any increase in wage controls simply eliminates jobs.

Michael:

Why do you say "recovering"? Just curious.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Gore is a freaking' traitor. Let's accept millions of dollars from Red China! Yeah, that's the ticket! Then, let's cover it up and deny we knew anything about it if we get caught! Yeah, that's it! He's also just as much of a daddy's boy as Bush. His daddy was also an obscenely wealthy Senator from Tennessee, who helped his 'lil man into politics. Man of the people, my a--!!! He's also got all the personality of a '78 Buick on the rustpile, and walks like he's got a stick shoved up his butt. Anyone who saw a certain Celebrity Deathmatch knows what I'm talking about.

Bush is too simplistic and superficial, and simply not experienced enough to be president. Enough being governor of a large state like Texas doesn't qualify him in foriegn affairs. Look at the last two presidents we've had whose highest experience level was governor, Clinton and Carter, and the messes they've caused with their innefective leadership(I'm not counting Reagan here, because he was extremely active in the Republcian heirarchy for decades, worked with/for Republican administrations, and was well versed enough with the nuances of politics to actually get things done. Even the democratic leaders of the 1980s like Tip O'Neill grudgingly agreed with that). Sometimes I think he's just reading the Republican sript verbatim, and not really understanding what he's actually saying.

I wish McCain was running, but he isn't so I'll probably vote for Nader. A wasted vote? Perhaps. But, my conscience will be clear.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel

quote:

---

Education

Teacher salaries at beginning of 1st term - 36th (1)

Teacher salaries at beginning of 2nd term - 38th (1)

% Change in Average Salaries 1987-97 constant -5.4%

Teacher salaries plus benefits - 50th (1)

High school completion rate - 46th (2)

Bush Family Values:

Highest number of children living in poverty - 2nd (3)

Highest number of children without health insurance - 2nd (3)

Highest % of children without health insurance - 1st (3)

Highest % of poor working parents without insurance - 1st (3)

Highest % of population without health insurance - 2nd (3)

Highest Teen Birth Rate - 5th (4)

Per capita funding for public health - 48th (4)

Delivery of social services - 47th (4)

Mothers receiving prenatal care - 45th (9)

Teen smoking - down nationally, flat in Texas (5)

Teen drug use - down nationally, up in Texas (5)

Pollution:

Pollution released by manufacturing plants - 1st (6)

Pollution by industrial plants in violation of

Clean Air Act - 1st (6)

Greenhouse gas emissions - 1st (6)

Quality of Life:

Spending for parks and recreation - 48th (7)

Spending for the arts - 48th (7)

Public libraries and branches - 46th (8)

Spending for the environment - 49th (7)

Best place to raise children - 48th (9)

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Sources:
(1) National Education Agency
(2) U.S. Department of Education Office of Educational Research and Development
(3) U.S. Census Bureau, Current Populations Trends
(4) U.S. Dept. Health and Human Services National Center for Health Statistics
(5) 1998 Texas School Survey of Substance Use Among Students: Grades 7-12, Texas Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse
(6) U.S. EPA, Office of Pollution and Prevention
(7) Texas Observer
(8) Statistical Rankings by State
(9) Children's Rights Council

---

quote:

---

The only way that that wouldn't work is if there are actually people out that that CAN live off that.

---

How DARE you TWIST and COTORT my words!!! Who are you to bend them so severely out of shape!!!! You Gibbon Faced Sartorial Skulker! Not a fact nor shread of fact inhabits your entire argument!!!

And that's basicly what you've come down to?

So far in this argument, you've called me:

"a complete imbecile"

"a blithering imbecile" (how the two are different, I'd still like to know)

a "liberal" (proud to wear that one)

a "twit"

and a "specticle" (which I assume you meant to spell spectacle. which is "something that can be seen or viewed, especially something of a remarkable or impressive nature" hmm)

Well, you keep trying there kiddie, some day you will get it right. Maybe you could have to mom and dad school district buy you a dictionary of slang.

As to my argument, I believe that Labor comes first. Labor is made up of the people you want to do the crap jobs for nothing while someone eles lounges in their pool. Would you like fries with that?

Now you can go on with your name-calling-laced vacuous tirades and try to convince me that the privledged whould stay that way while the rest of us continue to struggle for rent money and hope to goodness that we don't get sick....really sick.

Tom:

Yet again, using numbers without taking everything into account. As Frank points out, you don't list how things were BEFORE Bush took office. Polution may be bad relative to the other states, but it's shown one of the greatest reduction levels of any of them this decade, and Bush was in office for most of it. Just an example. Get back to me when you have a real point.

Jay:

"How DARE you TWIST and COTORT my words!!! Who are you to bend them so severely out of shape!!!! You Gibbon Faced Sartorial Skulker! Not a fact nor shread of fact inhabits your entire argument!!!"

So you grab a completely random sentence from my post, start ranting about it, and nitpick my spelling. And you think you have a point?

"how the two are different, I'd still like to know"

Did I say they were different?

"Labor is made up of the people you want to do the crap jobs for nothing while someone eles lounges in their pool."

You base this on what, again? Give me one quote that even remotely implies that I think this, or stop making the accusation, oh thou of little nous.

I think I'm going to adopt my philosophy from the Cuba debate permanantly. If you say something that means absolutely nothing (like the above), I'm going to act like you never said it. At first, when I started dealing with your irrationality, I felt like that little boy on Christmas, saying "There's gotta be a horse in here somewhere!" but I'm beginning to become disilusioned.

And you might note that "spectacle" is also defined as "and object of curiosity or contempt," by Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Omega:

"If you get really sick, go to the emergency room. By law, you have to receive treatment, pay or no."

Oh, yeah, there's the best medical treatment going. It is great for breaks and oh, say a general "emergency"
but if you can stratch those two pieces of firewood you have for a brain together long enough to make a spark and consider another meaning of "really sick."

Before you TWIST my words words again I'll spell it out for you...cancer, tuberculosis or something long term and very very expensive to treat. The emergency room will refer you out and we'll see how long you last on minimum wage.

Top CEOs are making 415 times the entry wage in their own company. You know what it was in 1940? 12. 1980? 40. Now, 415. So I'll go ask some of the people I see on Los Angeles Street how they feel about economic stratification...you seem to be very clear on the subject.

OH NO, I MAY HAVE TWISTED A WORD BY MAKING AN INFERENCE!!!

Tough.

You make arguments, I draw conclusions. If you don't want conclusions drawn from what you say then shut up. Don't go whining about words being twisted and all that. Oh, and just to be clear, the part above about the "Before you TWIST my..." was sardonic.

CRYSTAL CLEAR SECTION FOLLOWS

Point of discussion involves sub paragraph 1, section 4, article III...

Economic Stratification

END CRYSTAL CLEAR SECTION

I'm just hoping that is clear enough for you Omega. I do however look forward to seeing which sentence you are going to cut and paste.

But what I wanted to say, hopefully without disturbing anyone too much, is that I had a dream once where TMBG was playing at my inauguration. I'm not entirely sure what I was being inaugurated as.

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Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--
Ambrose Bierce
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! It's useless to struggle.