posted
The prophets are in it for themselves then - cause if they let something like the Borg happen to people that will eventually help Bajor - then they are willing to let many die to save a few. Most illogical! (;|
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by Captain Stark: IIRC the original script for BOBW (I don't have the CD version to check to see if it is the same) listed the set design for Admiral Hanson's filming location as "Galaxy Class Bridge".
Old news. And that's just the set, which was redressed many, many times over the years to represent everything from the Stargazer to the Enterprise-C to the Nebula-class Prometheus.
It's possible, of course... and it certainly WOULD make sense if Hanson were on board a Galaxy-class ship, that had a battle bridge that would serve as a fleet command center while the ship's captain flew the ship from the main bridge. I just don't think that tidbit can be used as conclusive evidence either way.
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: ...Unless for some reason they DIDN'T establish comunications beforehand. I'm all for giving non-Hero Starfleet personel some credit!
I'm not talking about Starfleet's credit... I'm talking about the Borg. For the Borg, morale is irrelevant. They're just making their announcement. And they invariably do that at the beginning of their battle, wherever that is.
The evidence for that? "First Contact." "Unity." "Scorpion, Part I." "Hope and Fear." "Drone." "Dark Frontier." "Unimatrix Zero." "Endgame." (My apologies to anyone who suffered flashbacks from this list of some of the worst episodes of VGR.) At any rate, the point is that the usual "you will be assimilated" line was used in every single encounter, as soon as they noticed something worthy of assimilation.
quote:Besides, if you look strictly at time elapsed, there really isn't time enough between Locutus shutting up and the Melbourne's destruction for hanson to say what he did.
Which means that HANSON WASN'T ON THE MELBOURNE.
(Edited to correct UBB formatting error.)
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
Hanson pre-recorded his message ande sent it before the battle even started. He was a closet manic-depressive with self-destructive fantasies. That's why he was scoping out Shelby.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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>And that's just the set, which was redressed >many, many times over the years to represent >everything from the Stargazer to the >Enterprise-C to the Nebula-class Prometheus.
Except for small bits and pieces, the sets for these three bridges are completely different. The Stargazer was the original TOS movie set; the Enterprise-C was cobbled together from science labs and such; and the Nebbie-Prommie was half new, and half pieces of the second TOS movie set.
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: The evidence for that? "First Contact." "Unity." "Scorpion, Part I." "Hope and Fear." "Drone." "Dark Frontier." "Unimatrix Zero." "Endgame." (My apologies to anyone who suffered flashbacks from this list of some of the worst episodes of VGR.)
*Whimpering in a corner somewhere*
Just remembered something, the tactical communication in ST:FC went from 'getting ready to fight' to 'abandon ships' in about 10 seconds, and those guys had the Fleet rallied and was prepared to fight a Cube. I don't think Hanson going from 'engaging the Borg' to 'things not going well' in the timespan of a turbolift ride is that much of a stretch.
Question, does the bumps and shakes of the bridge Hanson's on match the tractor and burn of the Excelsior in question? If it does, it's one more support for him being on the Melbourne.
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Not really. Hanson bumps around sevweral times in the space of his line, while the Melbourne was gone in two seconds and one shot. I seriously doubt the bridge would have been holding still while the saucer was being torn apart from under it.
posted
I would just like to note that the Excelsi-bourne's saucer damage stopped significantly short of the bridge. And the ship took no damage to the secondary hull. If that was the ship Hanson was on, he could have been out of the fight and only in a position to comment on it when we saw that transmission...
--Jonah
P.S. Also a firm adherent to the "Nebula-Melbourne school of thought", as I disregard production shortcuts and value the weight of two-to-one appearances.
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posted
Hanson could have been on the (gasp!) fully manned aux bridge!!!! What a concept: stick your chattery old "visiting admiral" out of the way "in case things go badly".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Yes, the bridge did not take a direct hit, so it is still possible that Hanson survived. If you look at the Melbourne drift and the motion of the cube, the camera cut away before what would be an inevitable impact with the cube. That may be why Hanson's bridge was still shaking!
posted
If Hanson as still alive after the Borg ripped away the Melbourne's saucer, his message would have been closer to "Enterprise! We're FUCKED! Stay awayyyyy!" (insert image of Hanson disintegrating)
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: >And that's just the set, which was redressed >many, many times over the years to represent >everything from the Stargazer to the >Enterprise-C to the Nebula-class Prometheus.
Except for small bits and pieces, the sets for these three bridges are completely different. The Stargazer was the original TOS movie set; the Enterprise-C was cobbled together from science labs and such; and the Nebbie-Prommie was half new, and half pieces of the second TOS movie set.
Mark
Like you, I always believed the STARGAZER and Battle Bridge were redresses of the first TOS movie bridge, but I have read somewhere in the last year or so (wish to Hell I could remember WHERE) that it was actually made from the extra duplicate moldings done at the time of PHASE II, when they cast extra skins of several of the bridge segments to have on hand in the event of destruction scenes or quick redresses/swapouts to represent other ships (this part is covered specifically in the Ed Gross unauthorized TREK THE LOST YEARS, and probably some mention is made of it in the authorized PHASE II book as well, though I don't recall for sure on the latter.)
The idea that these leftover bits were used might also explain why the STARGAZER and BATTLE BRIDGE are much closer to the colors for the Ent movie bridge as seen in the first three films, before it got repainted into that gaudy white-on-white-plus-chrome disaster seen in the last frames of TREK IV.
I think the only part of the TMP/phase II bridge that is still part of the trek universe is the area around and in front of the lift doors ... I think John Eaves said that they are in use on the -E.
BTW, I never realized the NEB stuff relied on any of the ST5/6 bridge ... I thought they only started using that on TNG with GAMBIT -- good bit of info, thanks!
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Gambit? If you're talking the pirate ship bridge set, it was made with the set that went into the Hathaway, E-C, Data's Lab et. al. The ST 5/6 bridge wall console segments have been used as early as the Saratoga in DS9 "Emissary". I can't recall if it's ever been used in TNG. Okuda mentioned in several DVD commentaries that the first movie bridge lift foyer segments are now in use on the E-E set, but they're barely recognizeable as such.
The "extra segments" thing you mention is news to me - I'd like a definite source if possible. However, it makes a certain amount of sense given that we've never seen a "whole" bridge made out of those segments; it's only the aft third or so that were used, with the remainder being newbuild (and almost featureless) walls. However, even so I wonder what happened to the original set... It was in pretty good shape at the end of ST4, and since TNG followed immediately afterwards I don't see why they don't just use that set.
posted
I'm not sure if it was GALACTIC JOURNAL or STAR TREK INTERVIEWS, but some mag or book from 88 or 90 mentioned the walkthrough Justman and co did on the movie sets before starting on NextGen, and how they were so covered in cat droppings that they were considered in large part unuseable! Since cat crap is always a problem on these stages, I don't know why the situation would have been so dire in 1987, but that supposedly contributed to the decision to build a lot of it anew and mainly keep structural elements only.
I've seen a lot of conflicting stuff about the degree of destruction of the bridge in III (most reports indicate that the lift doors were swapped out for balsa, so they were intact, but that a big hunk of the ceiling was destroyed for real), and since we only see a small section of the bridge in IV, I don't know how much of the original film bridge WAS intact at that point.
Another point indicating the first bridge was pretty far gone: considering the budget crunch STV found itself in halfway during preprod, I can't see them spending the at-least quarter-mil for the new bridge while having to axe tons of big fx scenes if there was any chance they could have painted the old one over and used that instead. (Of course I've never understood why Zimmerman insisted on dropping half-a-mil on Paradise City when they could have just modified some old fort like the ranch location used in ARENA.)
Hmm, just went digging through my files and found this bit from Zimmerman, which complicates the issue of the battle bridge even more than before. Take it with a grain of salt, but his words: (from a behind the scenes ST THE MAG article called DESIGNING THE INTERIORS OF THE USS ENT-D ... don't know which issue, I just yanked the useful stuff and trashed the mags before moving.)
Zimmerman: The battle bridge itself was more of a copy of and an homage to the design of the original Enterprise. These were all literally designed new. I think for economy's sake we used the same molds for everything -- it was logical tha they woud be the same on tthe same ship. That battle bridge was built completely from new stuff; the one exception might have been the doors. I did save all the doors from [TMP]; they were very carefully done out of fiberglass. As a matter of fact, they're still in use on the E-E today."
I don't know that I buy this 'designed and built from scratch' bit, as I'm pretty sure that Probert's own articles about trek designs indicate he designed with the idea of reusing whatever elements were at hand.
The one other time I was convinced I was seeing phase II elements on TNG was in BOOBY TRAP. They're aboard the alien ship, and there is a closeup of the round/oval screen with the dead alien capt talking. That whole area looks very much like the pics of the PHASE II bridge unit sections as seen in pics that ran in FANTASTIC FILMS and STARLOG in the 70s (I'm pretty familiar with those shots; I carved up a LOT of books and mags while mocking up an illustrated book proposal to Pocket in 1992.)
Sorry for going so far afield of the thread, but once I get focused on something ... (shrug)
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posted
Regarding the "skins" of the Phase 2 bridge, I'll try to remember to ask Andy Probert about that. Since he did a lot of conceptual drawings of the battle bridge for "Encounter at Farpoint", I suspect he'll know what elements were actually used and/or were available.
It should be posible to tell if at least some wall segments were TMP bridge or extra Phase II skins, because the walls of the full set were modified a lot for TMP (extra holes cut in for screens, trim added, etc.). Also, extra skins would have to be wired and rigged with with lights and screens, and any budget conscious producer's gonna go with the already rigged stuff if at all possible.
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