posted
I don't see how Nero going back in time to Kirk's Academy days could change the design of the Enterprise or update the Federation's technology. He would've had to have gone back decades (at least) before the events in the movie.
posted
Well, who knows? Maybe some junior officer on the Kelvin would've become an interior designer who started the whole matte-black-and jellybeans control panel setup.
(But seriously, I agree... the divergence in the timeline must be further in the past.)
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
mkimball
Ex-Member
posted
The timeline is changed because of the attack of the kelvin... Nero ship is from the 24th century is far more advanced than that of Kirks time. Something must happen in the film that lets that technology get into Federations hands... that would explain why Kirk Enterprise feels like it would fit in with Picards time. The new bridge alone looks far more advance than Picards ship. It will be interesting if they mention the first Enterprise Captain April or has the timeline changed that makes Pike the first.
Now I way reading the other day about an old classic film to being remade. Forbidden Planet, the 1950 classic. they plan a new trilogy film that may be directed by James Cameron and written by Babylon 5's J. Michael Straczynski.
This got me thinking how much Gene Roddenberry was influenced by Forbidden Planet. I mean you could put the enterprise and the crew in that movie and it would make a great film.
posted
There's two different ways to argue the development of technology: the appearance, and the functionality. Although you can argue that they're independent of one another to a degree, appearance is still mandated by its function.
For example, let's say that Bill Gates never existed; maybe he was killed by Khan and replaced by someone like, say, Henry Starling. (Ed: There's no mysterious future technology in play here, I'm just replacing one person with another.) The information revolution would have taken a vastly different course, perhaps; maybe today's personal computers would look quite different from what they actually do.
But the core functionality of those computers would remain the same; because no matter how different events progressed, they still have the same starting point. The combined forces of society, aesthetics, science, philosophy, etc. would continue to propel things along the same general path. Barring some kind of radical discovery (which is pretty unlikely) things can't really change that much.
Therefore, because the functionality of the technology behind the Enterprise can't change drastically, the radically different appearance becomes highly incongruous.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
It's a flimsy argument to be sure, but for the purposes of the "look" of everything versus its importance to the story that should be sufficient - most of the new fans this movie is looking to cultivate won't care. We're SUPPOSED to accept whatever throwaway line we'll get ("Nero came back in time - the changes are already being felt in the 24th century!", etc.) as enough.
And agreed with the "look" being no more or less high tech than other iterations. The fact that the new Enterprise bridge looks like the iPod design crew threw up on it has little bearing on its actual functionality. It didnt' take us long at all to accept that the ENT design ethic was supposedly less advanced than the TOS version, despite the former looking so much more detailed and complex; this was further cemented when we could directly compare the two in the "Mirror" two parter late in ENT's run.
Also, time travel is a really tricky business. Who knows - perhaps Nero made several jumps through time to find the right time and place to get to a young Kirk. That, or some side effect of whatever time travel technology rippled back and/or forth in time, causing tiny changes in what Commander Jefferies had for breakfast had twenty years prior; and the resultant butterfly effect gave us what we see.
posted
Actually, Mark, it seems that (anecdotally) the majority of people, even those few who stuck with ENT, never accepted the look of ENT as working with TOS. Hell, even the cast didn't.
posted
You can make that argument with any of the post TOS series. They all accepted the look of TOS even though it was very much a product of the sixties,with bright colors, women in mini skirts, and big honking computers filled with sixties circuitry. But that's why you suspend disbelief and accept it all as being part of the same timeline. So this movie's tech looks different from TOS, time to put that disbelief on the coat hanger again.
Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
posted
How cynical we've become, nobody had a problem with the look of the E-D Bridge in "Yesterday's Ent." We all just chalked it up to a different (dark/sombre/wartime-ish) mood informing the design of the place. Never mind the fact that the rest of the E-D, seemingly unchanged, wouldn't have been designed the way it was. . .
posted
I think that, with the Ent-D, we accept it because we know that there's no way that the 'per week' television format would allow for entirely new sets. We know, innately, that more would have indeed changed, but accept that the show wasn't able to show us that.
That's not the same as ENT (or Abrams Trek) which were jarring solely because of their design choices.
posted
The context of the movie may clarify the effect the time travel has had on the timeline, but it seems unlikely that Nero has been playing around in any other time than when the movie is set. If that's the case, there's no way his presence could've effected the design or the function of Federation technology in the 23rd century. Just bringing future technology to the past doesn't automatically update everything, mkimball me lad.
posted
Wasn't it easier when we could say First Contact screwing the whole thing up and explained Enterprise? Damn TPTB for actualy making a good Enterprise episode, shooting our convinent excuse for the mucked up timeline to hell!
I expect that either the timeline alterations will have a very explicit reference made, or there will be no mention of it at all, and we'll just have to deal with it.
Given what I've read about the whole thing, we may even get the first. But we'll still just have to deal with it, so all the Trek-puritans will be made to cry.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: Wasn't it easier when we could say First Contact screwing the whole thing up and explained Enterprise? Damn TPTB for actualy making a good Enterprise episode, shooting our convinent excuse for the mucked up timeline to hell!
I expect that either the timeline alterations will have a very explicit reference made, or there will be no mention of it at all, and we'll just have to deal with it.
Given what I've read about the whole thing, we may even get the first. But we'll still just have to deal with it, so all the Trek-puritans will be made to cry.
are you refering to 'A Mirror, Darkly'? as far as introducing the TOS Defiant to ENT?
doesn't fuck up a wet dream. Allow me to explain...
1) [One] Teh # uno: Mirror universe.
2) [Two] Teh # Dose: ENT is the post FC universe. So anything that could occur, probably did. In the last episode of ENT, durin any of the flash-forwards to Riker & the Scoob gang, did you ever see the Ent-D exterior? I don't remember but assuming that any tech made after ENT would probably look different/better...
yeah, excuses but TPTB require them.
FC mucked up the TOS/TMP/TNG universes (look at how the next two movies became, looking the POV that something did change, even though they thought they fixed things right.
JJ-ENT will do the same thing, much up things to allow for change. i think the one thing i'd like to know is, does JJ-ENT follow ENT time-wise completely/partially? or is it another run thru the muck? complete and utter changes for all of the future shows (Remember, time travel equals the reset button/$ from Paraumount)...
now i actually wished they didn't do TOS-R because with JJ-ENT... i would have CGI fucking EVER_MUTHA-FUCKIN' thing... from uniforms to Andorian cock-rings... artistic licence? i'd wipe my ass with that, to utterly Re-CGI TOS and everything else...
posted
ENT (and most of Trek up to this point) was based on a predestinational model of time travel. Everything that happened was "supposed" to happen including FC. (See "Regeneration" where at the end of the episode the signal is triggered that will reach the Borg in the 24th century and lead to them investigating the Alpha Quadrant.)
The new movie is purportedly based not on such a model, but rather on a quantum multiverse, a concept that has been explored before in Trek ("Parallels" [TNG], "Mirror Mirror" [TOS], et al) but not in direct connection with time travel.
How everything ties together will not become clear until the movie comes out, and I suspect not even then. But I think we can assume that somehow it all does. We just don't have sufficient information to come up with a conclusive answer.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
What will likely happen is that we'll end up with the conclusion that this is a reboot and not really related to other Treks any more than the Lost in Space movie was related to the original series. Same characters, same ship, new look.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic