posted
It seems to me they hadn't even finished making the models when they were filming; EAS quotes that hilarious story of one of the model makers quipping "Look what you did!" at Patrick Stewart while the latter was in his Borg costume.
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Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Amen. maybe someday we'll get an enhanced version with a few minutes of actual battle...maybe adding some more debris too. I'd love to see some of the debris get pushed aside by the Enterprise's deflector, though that might look weird to those unfamilliar with treknology.
I remember reading about someone who said that the first filmed battle at Wolf 359 was during the Borg attack and not after. But this version was droped when it was decided that the Enteprise joined after the battle was over. I was hoping that this filmed scene was part of the bonus material for TNG S3, but appaerently it was not.
You're thinking of the Borg battle from DS9's pilot episode, not BoBW. Rob Legato did indeed film a battle scene that wasn't used. I'm hoping that the footage will be found and shown when and if DS9 ever gets remastered.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: It seems to me they hadn't even finished making the models when they were filming; EAS quotes that hilarious story of one of the model makers quipping "Look what you did!" at Patrick Stewart while the latter was in his Borg costume.
No, they were finished. It was Okuda who was applying battle damage to the finished Melbourne model when Stewart in Borg costume ran into him.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I wonder why they discarded the battle scenes for "The Emissary" then since in this episode (in contrary to BoBW) they showd the hot phase of the battle. Nevertheless, I would love to see this additional material...
Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by o2: I wonder why they discarded the battle scenes for "The Emissary" then since in this episode (in contrary to BoBW) they showd the hot phase of the battle. Nevertheless, I would love to see this additional material...
Legato was asked to shoot the battle scene before the script was finished. When the scene called for the Saratoga and other ships to be just encountering the Borg ship instead of already being in the middle of the battle, the footage couldn't be used anymore.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Yesterday I watched 'Sarek' from S3 and I was a little bit disappointed that imho a great opportunity was missed: At the end of the episode the Enterprise is beaming Sarek and this company on board of the USS Merrimack. Before and after that scene the Enterprise was shown in Orbit around a planet. It always bothered me that the Merrimack was not seen in this neither of those two shots. I would have been great if the guys from CBS would have added the Merrimack into that scene. Not necessarily side by side, but maybe as small ship in the background, already departing (I think the Merrimack is Nebula Class according to the ships status list that will show up in season 4). Yeah, I know, I know, just wishful thinking...
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posted
They haven't done any ship adding in so far, and I can't imagine that they will for the rest of the series. They've been pretty adamant on their "todying up only" approach.
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posted
No, they haven't done ship-adding so far, but in 'The Battle' they have changed the content of a computer screen. I would say that the effort for doing this is roughly the same as for adding a (background) ship to a scene. In 'The Naked Now' they have even changed the registry of the 'Tsiolkovsky'. What I want to say: If they can do this they can also add other stuff like a ship here and there. That would make my day!
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posted
Absoutely- and considering the range of a transporter, it's not like the added ship needs to be close to the camera's viewpoint. They did such a fantastic job with the TOS stuff- the Orion and Gorn ships, the Planetkiller, etc, that not doing as much for TNG seems a crime.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
I gathered that they were making no additions when I didn't even see distant specks in "Conspiracy"[TNG1] around Mira. Of course, I would've loved to see an Ambassador and a New Orleans flying with the Enterprise. But as noted, it isn't necessary to have other ships so close.
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quote:Originally posted by o2: No, they haven't done ship-adding so far, but in 'The Battle' they have changed the content of a computer screen. I would say that the effort for doing this is roughly the same as for adding a (background) ship to a scene. In 'The Naked Now' they have even changed the registry of the 'Tsiolkovsky'. What I want to say: If they can do this they can also add other stuff like a ship here and there. That would make my day!
If you're seriously waiting for something like this to happen, I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. They changed the computer screen text for a reason: They didn't want all their previously illegible in-jokes to be seen. And digitally changing the Tsiolkovsky's registry on the shot of the studio model is quite different from totally changing the Tsiolkovsky's design with a new CGI design, when it was deemed unnecessary to do so.
Maybe if, like TOS-R, all the model shots needed to be replaced with CGI, we'd see more of what you describe. But if it's just an upconversion of the existing footage, there'd be no logical reason to add stuff that wasn't there previously, unless there was an egregious script error, like the Medusan "vessel" in TOS.
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: I gathered that they were making no additions when I didn't even see distant specks in "Conspiracy"[TNG1] around Mira. Of course, I would've loved to see an Ambassador and a New Orleans flying with the Enterprise. But as noted, it isn't necessary to have other ships so close.
Even creating lo-poly CGI models of the Ambassador and New Orleans class ships for the far background would have taken time and money, likely more time and money than CBS was willing to spend. Especially with their seeming edict that nothing is going to change unless there's damage or loss of original footage.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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I don't see any problems to add three background ships in this shot. I would not expect a complete 3D model of the Ambassador or the New Orleans here. What I have in mind would be similar to this shoot from TOS:
Since the planet in "Conspiracy" has been done using CGI the additional effort to include the ships would be minimal. I'm not saying that the effort would be zero, but if you have the revolving planet already in your computer the effort for adding three ships ala TOS "The Omegar Glory" should have been possible, even with a limited budget and under time contraints.
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posted
You're not thinking like CBS. The above is not really a valid comparison, because the Exeter was in the original shot, so there was a need to represent it again. Plus, after the credits we see the establishing shot of the Enterprise next to the Exeter. The Horatio, Renegade, and Thomas Paine were not in the original shot, nor do we see the Enterprise-D parked next to any of those ships later, so in CBS's mind there was no need to add something that wasn't there before, no matter how easy you might think it would be to do so. That's not what they're paying their people to do, nor would the remasterers do something like that if CBS didn't specifically tell them to.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
As a customer I have the luxury that I don't have to think like CBS.
The reason why we have not seen ships like the Horatio or the Merrimac 25 years ago are time and/or budget contraints. Sometimes even the creatuve people involved in the series have told us that they wandted to show certain thinks, but were denied by the producers.
To say now: Look, it was not in the origial broadcast, so we don't have to change it for TNG-R is only a cheap excuse in my opinon and does not make it better. I was under the impresson that one reason why Mike Okuda is with CBS for this restoration is that certain errors in the past would be corrected. I think I have shown how this could have been done with a minimum of effort. But obviously CBS is not willing to go that way. Sad, but this is the world we are living in.
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