posted
Exactly. Trek usually addresses the human need to EXPLORE, not EXPAND. Stuff like colonization isn't addressed as much simply because the Trek universe is more about hopping in spaceships and heading "out there".
To address what a ship would take "out there", you must first address WHY the mission would be taking place. There is little evidence that any colony missions are designed specifically to take people far away from the Federation; the only real evidence is that of two deep-space explorer ships that Starfleet rerouted towards Voyager, meeting them (still some 30+ years away) in just a few years.
Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I think it's simply never been addressed. If nothing else, it might be a wise place to keep the emergency reserve supplies. Fire, flood, storms or contaminations can't get into orbit after all.
Sorry, Sorry.... you did get Fire Insurance, Flooding and storm insurance but because you didn't get ANY protection for your valuables in space (Ferengi/bandits/thieves/Klingons/etc), we can't help you... because you were a boob and leaving your valuables in such a helpless and easy to extract-with-impunity location, in orbit...
can i offer you some coffee?
quote:Originally posted by Vanguard: Well it is, but I'm not sure exactly WHAT different components would be required for a colony transport as opposed to any other transport. Honestly, what are you otherwise looking at?
Is that USS Edwards colonly pic video-game cannnon or something fanish? where you get it?
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I'm all for an orbital outpost to any colony, it makes great sense. You have a waystation for visiting supply ships or traders, a safe high-ground in the event of something unforseen happening on the planet, and all the benefits we get today from satellites. If I were a colonist or engineer exploring the surface, it would be nice to have a GPS system, back-up transport facilities and planetwide comms links, dont you think? I also dont think everything in space is going to be attacked by Klingons and baddies of all sorts, we're talking home-building and not invasion here.
I think if we build a dedicated colony ship and not a bog-standard transport, it would be a one-way deal that would be disassembled upon reaching its target. Most of it would be landed, a portion left in space and the rest broken up for raw materials. Its antimatter core would be used on the planet as a power station, it's shuttlebays as hangars and workshops, and the rest used to make habitats for more colonists.
If we think that standard transports would be a better idea, then we might think about what they would carry or how they would be adapted to the role with the most ease. I've started fleshing out an idea for a bulk transport that can carry large cargo containers and land them on a planet, or even carry mission specific modules for special use.
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Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I'm trying to think of SF precedents, and two things that pop to mind are as follows:
1) The Ares colony ship from Kim Stanley Robinson's excellent "Red Mars" novel and sequels. The Ares in question is built out of Russian space station components, a propulsion module, and a series of space shuttle external tanks refit after use as habitats. When they arrived at Mars, the Ares was broken up into useful components and much of it went into building an outpost on one of the Martian moons. Other parts were landed (in addition to the cargo ships already there) and even more eventually foud its way into the orbital elevator IIRC.
2) The "Macross 7" colony fleet from the anime series of the same name. The fleet comprised number of city-sized colony ships, most of which were specialized for certain functions: the Riviera-class beach resort ship, the Hollywood-class entertainment ship, the Sunny Flower class agricultural vessel, and so on. When they found the right planet each colony ship would conceivably land somewhere and form the core of a ready-made city. Also, each colony ship had a military warship attached to it (literally docked to the front of the ship in most cases) that would be each ship's military base and fighter carrier.
How about this as an idea - a colony ship could monopolize the use of older stafleet or merchant marine hulls as ready-made, spaceworthy buildings a la Jupiter station, except deposited on a planet? A newbuild warp propulsion complex would ferry a bunch of old NX or Daedalus class hulls to a new home and new use as not only planetside buildings, but an orbital construct?
posted
There is of course a Star Trek precedent for this concept; the Conestoga. Though that ship didn't leave behind a space station, just landed and got disassembled.
I've given a little thought to what the prefab structures might look like and came up with this concept. It'd be stored flat in eight separate parts so it can be configured as needed. Capable of directly linking with another structure of it's type (and presumably any other similar models already in use), can be stacked vertically and each would have it's own life support system for anything from vacuum to inner life-zone deserts. The internal walls are easily reconfigured into any layout needed so one of these can act as an independent house, a public building or a smaller section of a larger complex, like a hospital ward.
posted
That's pretty similar to the concept I came up with a couple of years ago, except mine were square. Stackable, interlinking modules with specialised modules providing power, hydroponics, etc. I also had some interconnecting tunnel sections for spanning distances, and some double sized ones for use as connecting hubs, hangars and control rooms. The best analogy was Space 1999 and Alpha moonbase, which although not necessarily modular, was a good design for a space outpost.
Mark, I think the Macross thing is waaaaay over the top for our needs, and the KSR Mars stuff too basic, although the concept is sound. We could go with early era hulls being reused instead of shuttle tanks I suppose, although that sort of salvage and recycling doesn't sit that well with the picture we get of the Federation being a go-ahead type of society. We could certainly have a think about it...
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Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
How are said modules detached and dropped onto the planet?
The DY 100 class had cargo modules on the outside. Are they simply dropped from orbit and hope they land/parachute where the colony is planned? Or do you see these ships actually landing and then the modules unloaded or detached?
Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:That's pretty similar to the concept I came up with a couple of years ago, except mine were square. Stackable, interlinking modules with specialised modules providing power, hydroponics, etc. I also had some interconnecting tunnel sections for spanning distances, and some double sized ones for use as connecting hubs, hangars and control rooms. The best analogy was Space 1999 and Alpha moonbase, which although not necessarily modular, was a good design for a space outpost.
I thought hexagons would be a more versatile shape since it allows for more flexibility when arranging them into a larger structure. I did think about interconnecting walkways and thought a soft tunnel could be retracted into a bay surrounding the airlocks, then a more permanent structure is built up around and inside it later.
quote:How are said modules detached and dropped onto the planet?
The DY 100 class had cargo modules on the outside. Are they simply dropped from orbit and hope they land/parachute where the colony is planned? Or do you see these ships actually landing and then the modules unloaded or detached?
Well in my little concept the saucer section detaches, splits into five sections then each section makes a controlled entry into the atmosphere.
posted
OK, here's a quick view of my idea for a versatile cargo hauler that could be used to lug sections to a planet, or even mission specific modules for Star Fleet.
This is just a rough shape to show the idea of what I'm getting at for a cargo hauler. I figure the nose section houses any crew or passengers, the side arms are nice and chunky and house the landing gear, warp engines and impulse engines at the very rear. The mid section can be either a mission specific module (carrier, command section, passenger area, cargo) or even a larger cargo container or group of smaller containers.
I dont like the idea of warp ships towing long lines of stuff, but slightly larger than the ship is allowable. At first I had it with a snug fitting container section dropped from the belly like Thunderbird 2, but I figured I was limiting the module sizes and capabilities and decided on a side grab arrangement instead. Just a thought. I need to work on some more ideas, I should get something more solid tonight.
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Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
^Added bonus, the containers/sections don't have to have any thermal protection (tiles, shields, whatever) to protect them from the heat of atmospheric entry.
Registered: Jul 2002
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I like the concept Reverend has come with for the hexagonal pods - reminds me of blockbusters.
I used to work for a company that had developed a sort of plastic utility cabin, as a kind of cheap, more mobile and more customisable portakabin for use on sites.
The basic concept was a hard, durable plastic floor about 10' x 10' with shaped corners. Into each corner an 8' leg fitted, and was secured by quick action clamps, which you tightend to lock, and then the roof went on, in a similar fashion.
You then picked what walls you wanted from a huge range, including doors, windows, fold out tables, blackboards, showers, loos etc etc. These were than clipped into place, and because the whole thing was modaular, you could have as many as you wanted, all clipped together. If you wanted to change it or move it - piece of cake. You could put each module up, single handed, in about 3 minutes.
Frankly if I were you, I'd patent the concept as some sort of emeregency shelter for areas with no or damaged infrastructure.
On the actual design - I'd probably move the hatch that links the floors so that it's in line with the supports, and probably make it rectangular, so you could fit a stair case or something, and rip off the customisable wall idea.
That would allow you to stack them, but not just one on top of another, or tesselating. I might also design a secondary external framework, to support taller buildings. I see these as being more semi permanant than akin to a temporary portakabin.
I also appreciate, that I'm being a bit too real world here and going of concept slightly, but shrug.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'd say it was all good input, and close enough for me. We're looking in essence at how to create a colony, and from that what kind of ship you'd need to get the colony there.
The idea of an external framework is interesting, but how about an internal mounting system instead? How about something like a tall cylinder system coming up from either a large base unit or a foundation driven (or transported?) into the ground for stability. The units then either arrange around the side of the support, or slide down over it like CDs on a spindle. You can then use the cylinder support as a stairway or turbolift, as well as a riser for services. Any good?
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Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
My thinking was that vertical supports could be slid down through apertures that are hidden under those darker hexagons and affix via a clamp built into both floor and ceiling units.
As for the stairs, my thinking was that small hatch would be enough for a reasonably sized spiral or a lift, with heavier equipment being winched up though the central aperture, with in the ceiling is used as a skylight but on the floor can be plated over or uncovered as need be. I did consider a specialised, slightly larger series of vertically stacked units acting as a central hub for for a tight cluster of domicile type modules, with wider stairways going up the outer walls and an open vertical space down the middle.
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: I like the concept Reverend has come with for the hexagonal pods - reminds me of blockbusters.
I'll have a P please Bob.
Wow, this stuff rocks guys! I've hit a dry spot in my writing and have been looking for something to kick-start again, just to get back into writing since I hit a wall 3 days ago...and this has done it! I'm about 1,500 words into a piece about an early colony and this stuff has really helped! Obviously I've not ripped off your ideas directly...but interconnectable modules and such do feature in it (it's actually a pretty damn cool idea and can't believe I over-complicated everything! )...hmm I wonder if I could adapt that idea for space station construction...hmm....reminds me of the Enterprise-D lifepods...weren't they supposed to be able to link up into a giant chain or network or something? What if the colony ship was made up in a similar way, lots of little modules all connected to a main stardrive section...
Hmm...
*Trots off back to notepad...starts scribbling again*
-------------------- If you cant convince them, confuse them.
Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: My thinking was that vertical supports could be slid down through apertures that are hidden under those darker hexagons and affix via a clamp built into both floor and ceiling units.
I think if we go inserting half a dozen big pillars, a spiral staircase and winches in every room, it's going to eat up a lot of valuable space and also rather compromises the integrity of the engineering. I think simple flat connectors or rising linkages (like the saucer connectors on the Ent-D) would allow reasonable security without eating into room space and penetrating the walls more than you need to. From the look of them they could be stacked to a fair height without crushing the lower rooms anyway.
These could even be used to build your space station if built to the correct tolerances, as long as we have some decent hub system for interconnecting them. Portacabins In Space!
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Registered: Jun 2003
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