posted
Omega [post-edit correction -- It was Orion Syndicate who said the original phrase]: This is not mocking, but you said something in such a way that it lent itself to this purpose. If you are offended, I apologize, but your phrasing was perfect.
One life taken by cars is one life too many. I don't understand how people can continue to defend the use of cars after so many tragedies. Haven't you learned anything? Cars kill. Yes I know, it's not cars but the people who own them but if you make the car laws stricter so that only certain people can own them, you won't have any Tom, Dick or Harry just going to the grocery store and buying themselves a car to kill someone with.
There are nearly 200 million cars and light trucks (which includes SUVs and pick-up trucks) registered in the U.S. In 1998 (the latest year I could find complete data for) there were 14,471 traffic fatalities. Of these, 2,549 were children.
Let's now look at firearms:
Annually, there are around 1,400 firearms-related deaths in America. (I could not find statistics for individual years, nor separate figures for children).
Now, if the death of one child is one too many, why isn't the death of 2,549 children (nearly twice the annual gun death total) raising as big a hue and cry as gun deaths?
Think about why you perceive guns to be more dangerous than automobiles. "Guns are for killing!"
Well, of course. That's why you can't buy one at the corner grocery (unless your corner grocer has a valid license to sell firearms). Your corner gun dealer can't (and won't) sell firearms to anyone under the age of eighteen, nor will he sell handguns to anyone younger than twenty-one.
I am a firearms owner and know just how difficult it is for a qualified buyer to purchase handguns. I am also familiar with firearms safety (I keep mine locked up when not in use) and do not let my son play with guns or gun-like toys. I fully intend to indoctrinate him thoroughly in the principles of firearms safety long before he will be allowed to even touch one.
If you don't like guns, don't buy any. Don't ever call the police for help, either. They carry guns on a regular basis, here in the U.S.
As far as guns preventing crime, let me say this: it isn't armed citizens shooting at badguys that is responsible for the reduction of crime and murder rates in areas where gun possession is fairly liberal. It's the knowledge that a potential victim may be armed that prompts criminals to choose less-violent crimes. There's less likelihood your victim can justifiably shoot at you that way.
Please read it (without prejudice) before commenting. (First of Two, if you could assist with more information or links, I'd appreciate it.)
The Constitution does not tell us what rights we may have, but defines just how far the government is allowed to go in the performance of its duties. Free Speech, Freedom of Religion, and the Right to Bear Arms are, as defined by the Constitution, "God-given rights", and exhisted prior to its being set down on paper.
Almost everywhere else in the world, the right to exercise deadly force, and the implements with which to deal it, have been reserved only for the priveledged class. In the U.S., it isn't. Firearms ownership by law-abiding citizens is not the greatest danger to face the western world, nor is it likely to be. I agree that it's criminal to shoot someone without cause, but that is already illegal.
If you outlaw guns, you define law abiding citizens as criminal. You still haven't arrested, disarmed, or put away the crack dealer or the rapist or the burglar who you fear. Instead, you have just made it safer for them to ply their trade. You have also just increased the workload for the police, who will now have even less time to go after the violent criminals.
--Baloo
------------------ A cheeseburger, french fries and a vanilla shake. It's not the best meal; far from it. But it is perfect, the Holy Trinity of American cuisine. --James Lileks http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited December 11, 1999).]
posted
I don't think that was me (what, you think I'd be FOR giving the government more power? ), but I was about to make this point myself. Cars kill far more people than guns ever have (in civilian life, of course).
------------------ Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works C/O Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu, Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law 1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza Dis, The Nether Regions
posted
Dax, we know. Baloo was just making a valid point by substituting in the word 'cars' for 'guns'.
Of course, if people in the US drove better too. Anyone got a comparison for different countries? I was sure that the UK consisted of mainly safe drivers. Out of all of Europe, we're the country second least-likely to go through amber lights. Woo, what an exciting bunch we are, eh?
------------------ "Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
posted
I won't hazard a guess, but if I did, I'd bet that Americans are not necessarily the safest drivers, but we probably have fewer accidents per passenger mile traveled than any (or many) other country.
Here's the data for 1996 (again, the latest year for which I could find data): 6,842,000 total, with a crash rate of 276 crashes per 100 million miles (or 27.6 per billion). 37,351 of those were fatal, for a fatality rate of 1.5 per 100 billion miles.
Let's see if we can find the data for Canada, U.K., Australia, Germany, etc., and compare (after converting statistics to a mutually intelligible statistic, like "crashes/fatalities per million kilometers, or some such).
I'm curious, but it took a @#$% long time to find the stats I did. It looks like the agencies with the numbers are so proud of their sites, they want you to wander around in a dazed wonder, admiring their handiwork. Of course, it doesn't help that U.S. Government sites tend to use "Bureaucratese", so nothing you want is called by a name you recognize. The above information was listed as "Crashes and Crash Rates by Month and Severity". Almost obvious, once you wade past the 5 or so peripherally-related pages to get there.
--Baloo
------------------ A cheeseburger, french fries and a vanilla shake. It's not the best meal; far from it. But it is perfect, the Holy Trinity of American cuisine. --James Lileks http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited December 11, 1999).]
posted
On a side note, if less than 15,000 people were killed in car accidents last year, how come I just saw a commercial where Billy said that 16,000 were killed due to drunk driving alone? Somebody's stats are wrong, and I'm more inclined to believe Baloo.
------------------ Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works C/O Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu, Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law 1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza Dis, The Nether Regions
posted
Autos make our world today possible. Me, and all the people I work with, live far enough away from the office, that we have to drive to work. We get to the hospitol faster, Our fresh food is dilivered to a central location by an auto, and we stop on the fly, then go home. Our world life style requires automobiles, not guns. I don't think the comparisen is valid.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
I'd hate to cause a fight guys, but those people who died in car accidents were exactly it, accidents. However, there ARE a few that are an exception, those being DUI, road rage, and those who keep unsafe trucks.
How many of these firearms deaths are by accident? Zip. none. nadda. Goose egg. Almost every single firearm death in the USA was Intentional. The guys who carry these guns and shoot up innocent people did it deliberately. All those school shootings, the Montreal Massacre, even the recent shooting in the Netherlands. Every one of those people had an intention to kill. How often do you get that in a car?
Also, cars are an important element in society these days. So where do the guns fall in?
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
posted
Woah woah woah! I've remained quiet about this because, really, does anybody care what I have to say? But a large number of gun-related injuries are caused by accidental discharges. Whether that falls into the pro or con side of the gun control argument depends on where your biases lay. (Assuming "biases" is a word.)
------------------ "I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go." -- John Linnell
posted
Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 deaths/year due to gun accidents was the stat I heard (less than .5% involving licenced professionals, with mitigating circumstances in each case; yet another reason for people to be trained in the use of guns), but I don't quite recall the source, so don't quote me on that.
------------------ Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works C/O Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu, Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law 1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza Dis, The Nether Regions
posted
here's a statistic I read last night.. 90% of murders are committed by someone who already has a substantial criminal record.
90% of shootings that take place in the city is one criminal shooting another criminal.
80-85% of "acquaintance homicides" (that is, where the vicim knew the killer), the most common type, are committed by people who know each other because they are members of rival gangs or they buy and sell drugs to each other (or are competing dealers) -- Kleck, "Targeting Guns: Firearms and Violence in America" 1997.
Take Minneapolis. A fair city, as cities go, low gang membership, etc. However, 45% of murders in Minneapolis from 1994-1997 were classified by the police as "gang-related." 45.4% of those arrested for all those murders were gang members. On average, the 234 Minneapolis murderers had 7.4 prior arrests, including 175 drug offenses, 173 violent crimes, 169 property crimes, and 82 prior weapons offenses.
31.4% were on felony probation.
(Kleck, ibid.)
seems to me it isn't the guns that are the problem.
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
), but I was about to make this point myself. Cars kill far more people than guns ever have (in civilian life, of course).
Printer-friendly view of this topic
