posted
Is this justice? is it right that the Scottish courts released this guy after he killed 270 people?
Okay, he has cancer, and has an estimated three months to live but, fuck's sake- I think he should have died in prison like any other murderer. Fucker returned to a hero's welcome.
There are alligations of a deal between Britan and Lybia for his release, but that might just be the Lybians trying to give Britan a black eye.
I can not imagine how enraged the families of the victims feel at this point....
FBI Director Robert Mueller said:
quote:"Your action rewards a terrorist ... (and) makes a mockery of the emotions, passions and pathos of all those affected by the Lockerbie tragedy," Mueller wrote.
"But most importantly, your action makes a mockery of the grief of the families who lost their own ... You could not have spent much time with the families, certainly not as much time as others involved in the investigation and prosecution."
I'm kind of at a loss here as to the judge's motivation to free this man...aside from possible publicity (which seems all negative at this point) Your thoughts? Do you think he should have been released on humanitarian grounds?
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
From what I gather, some of the victim's families don't even believe the guy is guilty. Personally I don't know either way. Though to my mind, guilty or innocent, the guy wasn't sentenced to death, so if he's bound to croak in a few months anyway what's the point in keeping hold of him until you have to send him home in a box? If this helps improve relations with Libia, then for the sake of a few months worth of prison food, it's probably worth it.
As for the FBI's opinion, I dare say our authorities have a little more experience with dealing with terrorists than they do and for that matter, a somewhat better track record with reconciliation. I think allot of yanks have very short memories in this regard as it wasn't that long ago that the US authorities were turning a blind eye to it's citizens supporting and even funding terrorist groups in NI.
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If they wanted to be compassionate, couldn't they have allowed family members to visit him in jail? Did they really have to release him?
Registered: Feb 2005
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IMHO the release of Al Megrahi was made primarily due to political pressure.
If that's the case, then his release is a mockery of the Scottish justice system and our government. Regardless of his medical conditions, if anybody thought for one second that he would return to Lybia and recieve anything less than a heros welcome they are deluding themselves.
The Scotish government has already made steps to distance themselves from this decission. I would be very surprised if (Dark)Lord Mandleson had nothing to do with his release. The man is political scum personified, and in his latest incarnation as the Business Secretary I don't think it's too far to suggest that Al Megrahi's release might just make trade with Lybia a little easier.
So, to answer your question Jason, no. No it is not.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
Politics. Gotta love it. It doesn't matter, though. It'll be forgotten in a few minutes...
save for the families who still grieve, or prehaps with proper modivation, plot vengence...
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: From what I gather, some of the victim's families don't even believe the guy is guilty. Personally I don't know either way. Though to my mind, guilty or innocent, the guy wasn't sentenced to death, so if he's bound to croak in a few months anyway what's the point in keeping hold of him until you have to send him home in a box? If this helps improve relations with Libia, then for the sake of a few months worth of prison food, it's probably worth it.
I think there are three people that believe he was a scapegoat- the rest are certain that, while he did not act alone, he was obviously directly involved. The fucking press only interviews the few that think he was innocent- yeah, Lybia was not involved, even though they fucking admited it! Now Lybia is claiming this turd was a "political prisoner"- a hostage of Scotland.
quote:
As for the FBI's opinion, I dare say our authorities have a little more experience with dealing with terrorists than they do and for that matter, a somewhat better track record with reconciliation. I think a lot of yanks have very short memories in this regard as it wasn't that long ago that the US authorities were turning a blind eye to it's citizens supporting and even funding terrorist groups in NI.
Short memories or no, it would be outrageous if the US had tried, convicted and inprisoned an IRA bomber- particularly one responsible for so many deaths- and released him to a hero's welcome.
Compassion be damned, there are certainly plenty of terminally ill fuckers rotting away in Scotish prison cells that did not get this treatment.
As to "turning a blind eye to it's citizens supporting and even funding terrorist groups", Yes, it's a real fucking problem here- organized jackasses murder doctors, bomb women's clinics- fuck, the White Supremasists bombed the ATF building even and the government always says it was "an isolated incident" or "a disturbed indivual".
We have a ton of domestic terrorists and the Republicans are claiming the extremist element as a voter base. It's gotten so bad that armed nuts are openly wearing firearms (assualt weapons and handguns) at Obama speaches. Some-fucking-how this is a right granted by the ever-vague Second Amendment.
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
The conviction was completely unsafe. Intelligence agencies on both side of the Atlantic were fucking shitting themselves over what might have come out at the next appeal - the Heathrow baggage break-in, the dodgy Maltese identification, the Syrian connection that was ignored by a US administration with a hard-on for Libya (shades of 9/11 there with the immediate demand for evidence of Iraqi complicity, hmm?). The same FBI director now tut-tutting over the whole thing was going to have to face demands for explanations from US bereaved who find they've been lied to for 20 years. And the concept of Compassion, while recognised in the Scottish legal system, is alien to your legal system, formed as it appears to have been from the belief that it is better a thousand innocent people be punished wrongly than see a single guilty person go unpunished.
So, please, don't buy into all this manufactured outrage. The US govermnent wanted this to happen because it lets them off the hook. The British central government wanted this to happen because it makes the Scottish Nationalist government look bad (latest to dip his oar in is the former LABOUR First Minister, keen to score points with voters in the face of a potential devolution referendum). It sucks that the Libyans are determined to make as much of a hoo-hah about the release as they can, but unfortunately "We have to keep so-and-so locked up because letting him go will let the baddies gloat" isn't a part of even the allegedly-liberal Scottish legal code.
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"We have a ton of domestic terrorists and the Republicans are claiming the extremist element as a voter base. It's gotten so bad that armed nuts are openly wearing firearms (assualt weapons and handguns) at Obama speaches. Some-fucking-how this is a right granted by the ever-vague Second Amendment. "
You know I've been meaning to say something about that. I mean these people are overtly suggesting the President be killed. I seem to recall that being a crime. So let my overtly wonder why the Secret Service isn't picking these assholes off? I mean I don't care who you are or who the President is, you don't bring a gun to where he or she is going to be. I'm not one to wish death on anyone, but fuck sakes, I wouldn't shed a tear if these fucktards got more holes in them than cheese.
Registered: Feb 2005
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Yes, they'd all spent the first eight years of this decade insisting that despite what anyone might personally think of the government, it was everyone's duty to support the President in times of crisis, and anyone who didn't was a Goddamn Pinko Commie Traitor Who Should Go Live In Russia. Strangely this attitude was noticeably absent among their ilk prior to 2000, or from this current year on. Something seems to have changed, to get all these gun-nuts riled up and suddenly resolved to bear arms to protect themselves against guvmint oppreshun, when things like the Patriot Act and all that illegal wiretapping that went on, somehow failed to move them quite so much. I can't think what it could be.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: And the concept of Compassion, while recognised in the Scottish legal system, is alien to your legal system, formed as it appears to have been from the belief that it is better a thousand innocent people be punished wrongly than see a single guilty person go unpunished.
So you're saying that it's common that scottish prisoners- found guilty of multiple homicides- be allowed t go free if diagnosed with a terminal condition? I dont think you could show me a single instance where that's happened before. If anything is "manufactured" it's that "Scottish Compassion" angle. More and more this stinks of money-politics and nothing else. And if the Lybians did not bomb that plane they sure as fuck would NEVER have copped to doing it, much less paid out over a billion in restitution.
quote: You know I've been meaning to say something about that. I mean these people are overtly suggesting the President be killed. I seem to recall that being a crime. So let my overtly wonder why the Secret Service isn't picking these assholes off? I mean I don't care who you are or who the President is, you don't bring a gun to where he or she is going to be. I'm not one to wish death on anyone, but fuck sakes, I wouldn't shed a tear if these fucktards got more holes in them than cheese.
well, there's the thing, these asshats are outside where the President is giving his townhall or speach so they are never )so far) within line-of-sight and yes, the Secret Service is on them like white on rice, but it's an attempt at intimidation if nothing else: Would you be at a rally if the police were letting heavily-armed nuts roam around?
The reason this is being allowed is that there are no specific laws saying that a legal-to-own firearm cant be publicly carried in a public space- only that they can not be concealed.
It's splitting hairs and someone's going to get killed over it- some nut will get into a screaming match with some Obama supporter and it'll escalate- hell, even a car backfiring might be mistaken for gunfire and start a stampede.
The first guy to show up at several rallies with a gun strapped to his leg (like he's some cowboy) was interviewed by the cable networks and played all politically nieve while lamenting how "all out freedoms are being stolen by the Obama administration" (where was this guy's anger the past eight years?). Turns out he's on a bunch of extremist and "birther" online forums- under his real name no less- and had been trolling the rallis looking for media attention, which he got beacuse no one was smart enough to run a Google search on his name before interviewing him.
Score another one for the extremist Right.
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'm not sure that there is another person guilty of multiple murders, conspiracy to murder and blowing up an aeroplane and serving a scentance in a Scotish jail, yet alone one who has a termial illness.
It's actually not that uncommon for a prisoner to be released from a Scottish or a British prison on compassionate grounds. The guidelines state that compassionate release is suggested in the event of a prisoner, regardless of their tarrif, being certified by a doctor as 3 months or less from death in their opinion. The decission is upto the relevant Minister of either the Scot's Parliament or Wesminster.
This I have no problem with. I actually have no problem with Al Megrahi's release on compassionate grounds. I also agree with Lee, that the conviction was based on shakey evidence, and I remember several cases of contempt and purjury being alledged to have taken place. Nonetheless he was convicted.
My anger is the strong suspicion that I have of a political motivation for his release. Given that he was probably a scaoegoat just complicates matters. Suffice to say, somewhere a deal was done.
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I have to say that a more compassionate thing to do wold be for his relatives to have been flown in for a final visit- then there could also have been compassion for the victims.
Here is a great article on someone that actually suffered this great loss- and her view on the release.
It's a sobering read.
Registered: Aug 2002
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
'Annie', Clearly is better than you or me... At least, according to this write-up, she's looking at this realistically.
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Indeed. I always find people capable of such forgiveness...
Well, I cant relate at all, but I respect the hell oit of them- it's something far removed from my own abilities, it seems.
Everyone seems to be hoping that the Lybians dont parade this bozo during gadafi's 40th anniversary of coming into power next month but I think that's exactly what theyll do- rub everyone's noses in it.
Registered: Aug 2002
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