posted
Okay, let's address the elephant in the room: The opening scene is a flashback showing the graphic dismantling of Icheb. Yes, Icheb. I don't watch Star Trek for torture porn. The idea of Icheb having been killed for his Borg tech is... fine. But to have it shown in that gruesome detail? Shame on you, show. Shame on you. I find it very telling that Manu Intiraymi did not reprise the role for this scene.
The rest of the episode was... fine. Admittedly way less stupid than the trailer made it appear.
Totally called that Agnes was a mole. And not only that, she doesn't appear to have been coerced. Oh showed Agnes something that turned her to the Zhat Vash cause.
I guess the out-of-nowhere Seven/Chakotay relationship didn't last long, if I'm interpreting the dialogue correctly.
I kind of have mixed feelings about Raffi's encounter with her son. On the one hand, the son has every right to feel the way he does about Raffi and her conspiracies. On the other hand, we as the audience know the synth attack probably was a conspiracy and that Raffi was right.
-------------------- "Kirito? I killed a thing and now it says I have XPs! Is that bad? Am I dying?"
-Asuna, Episode 2, Sword Art Online Abridged
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Manu foolishly took a position of "let's hear all the facts" the day the blonde STD engineer guy Rapp went public against Kevin Spacey, soon apologizing for not going with the Twitter mob by failing to call for Spacey to be burned at the stake as soon as any story was told. This is the same Twitter mob that dismissed the accusations against Takei sight unseen, so his confusion was understandable.
That said, the vicious dismantling rather smells of wish fulfillment fantasy on the part of the writers.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
Since I don't want to watch STD, I don't know if this is an extension of how they portray the world of Trek. It's definitely not the world seen in TNG or even DS9 which had a slightly darker tone. Outside of a holodeck I didn't think I'd see any one in a pimp hat in the future.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
You guys worry me. Manu Intraymi is is a piece of shit, so I have no problem with his non-recurrence.
Anyway.
This show is quickly losing me, because I don't like the world it's creating. The whole "Borg parts as a parallel to organ harvesting" thing makes no real sense. The Fenris Rangers make no sense, nor this sudden lawlessness/Wild West atmosphere being woven. Suddenly Seven is more human than human? Suddenly she's off playing Paladin? Add in Raffi being a drug addict apparently, & Jurati being a new convert to the evil cause with a huge enough hard-on to kill her lover because...what? Romulans are Cylons? Fear of Control returning? What could possibly put all this into play?
Honestly, I don't think I care anymore. Like Disco, this is not Star Trek; unlike Disco, this is not enjoyable or interesting. It's the last 4 seasons of X-Files, where bizarre twists were tossed in for no reason other than a need to never have a straight answer or allow people to figure out what was going on.
What I did like:
• Freecloud. The idea of worlds like that is one I've had since the 80s & my first encounter with FASA's Triangle. I have a similar zone in my own work (the postwar Confederated Independents, formed from former Maquis worlds). I have no problem with the fashions, & the idea of "Star Trek: Cowboy Bebop" is, I admit, a little appealing.
• "Where's your cortical node, buddy?" That is the most Canadian thing ever, & I laughed SO HARD at its delivery. But also, nice callback to him giving it to Seven. Of course, it IS a Kirsten Beyer episode & she does have hard nips for VGR.
• The hints of the VGR theme as Seven beans back down.
As an aside, I don't think we're seeing the Rikers until the last episode, where Picard hets a blessing as a send-off as he goes off to to good in the galaxy again or sone shit.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
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I get that Seven isn't the same Seven from Voyager... it's been a long time. I also noticed the Voyager theme and thought that was a nice touch though.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
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quote:Originally posted by Shik: You guys worry me. Manu Intraymi is is a piece of shit, so I have no problem with his non-recurrence.
I don't follow social media, so I don't know anything about the guy. My comment was just based on the assumption that any actor probably wouldn't want to reprise a role just to have the character butchered horrifically.
-------------------- "Kirito? I killed a thing and now it says I have XPs! Is that bad? Am I dying?"
-Asuna, Episode 2, Sword Art Online Abridged
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
I meant Frick & Frack up there, not you, Krenim.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Oh my God! They fridged Icheb! You bastards!
I’m fed up with all this unending wokeness. Not that there aren’t things to be woke about, there are loads, that’s the point. So I could give a shit about Manu Intiraymi’s exact degree of awfulness. But I’m not surprised if his failure to reprise his role here is due to his reluctance to participate in... that.
But, what the fuck? Killing off a popular secondary Voyager character in graphic detail in the first two minutes? An even more popular primary VOY character turned into a vengeful murderess?
Also, Bruce Maddox (likewise recast) - who like Jack Bauer and Fox Mulder is only ever referred to by his full name, it’s the law - didn’t need to be there apart from to tell the others about the Artefact. He’s given a sudden relationship with Dr. Kim Pine - they couldn’t have mentioned that more than twenty minutes before he died?
I’m trying. I really am. But who the fuck us writing all this? Dramatically and structurally it’s nothing short of amateurish.
quote:I’m trying. I really am. But who the fuck us writing all this? Dramatically and structurally it’s nothing short of amateurish.
Agreed.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Thirded.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
There seems to be an emperor’s new clothes thing going on - an unwillingness to even consider that, y’know what, this isn’t actually all that good. It reminds me in some ways of the first Spider-man film back in ‘02. Now, that was NOT a good film. Not then, and certainly not now - when contrasted with the comic book films pseudo-Golden Age we’ve been enjoying in the past dozen-odd years since the first Iron Man. But a “proper” Spidey film had been the holy grail for so long, people didn’t want to admit its many shortcomings.
Of course, now we have social media. I doubt Spider-man 1 would get anywhere near an easy ride now (the Garfield reboots may not have, I can’t remember - but I know I enjoyed The Amazing Spider-man a LOT more than any of the Maguire efforts). And yes, there are plenty out there bashing Picard, on Twitter and Reddit - but you don’t need to dig down into their timelines to find every single one of them also have problems with Discovery, mainly for having women AND ethnics AND gays in.
That they’re slagging Picard for depicting the Federation as flawed and corrupt and no longer the bastion of hope and tolerance is an irony that is lost on them - given how, in thought and word and deed they obviously don’t believe in such things themselves!
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
You know, the more I think about this, I realize that this whole show feels like some 14-year-old's shitty fanfic. That's the exact flavor of it.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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"I kind of have mixed feelings about Raffi's encounter with her son. On the one hand, the son has every right to feel the way he does about Raffi and her conspiracies. On the other hand, we as the audience know the synth attack probably was a conspiracy and that Raffi was right."
To be fair, it sounds like she pretty much abandoned her family to pursue her conspiracy theories. Whether the theories were right or wrong, it's still a shitty move on her part.
"I guess the out-of-nowhere Seven/Chakotay relationship didn't last long..."
Probably about as long as the out-of-nowhere Troi/Worf relationship.
"The whole 'Borg parts as a parallel to organ harvesting' thing makes no real sense. The Fenris Rangers make no sense, nor this sudden lawlessness/Wild West atmosphere being woven. Suddenly Seven is more human than human? Suddenly she's off playing Paladin? Add in Raffi being a drug addict apparently..."
I have to admit, I don't actually see a problem with these things. It doesn't seem far-fetched that Borg technology might be somewhat unique and worth a lot on the black market (though, whether it's worth enough that people would be abducting and vivisecting Starfleet officers to get it is another question).
I could be wrong, but I thought that the stuff about the Fenris Rangers and the lawlessness was in reference to former Romulan territories, which are no longer being controlled by the Empire (since it's either gone or severely weakened) and which the Federation decided to take no interest in once they abandoned the Romulans to their fate. It seems reasonable that a certain amount of anarchy might set in.
I don't think anything with Seven can be described as "sudden", since we haven't seen what she's been up to for the past 20 years.
And as far as Raffi's being a drug addict... did you not watch episode 2? That was nothing new.
"And yes, there are plenty out there bashing Picard, on Twitter and Reddit - but you don’t need to dig down into their timelines to find every single one of them also have problems with Discovery, mainly for having women AND ethnics AND gays in.
"That they’re slagging Picard for depicting the Federation as flawed and corrupt and no longer the bastion of hope and tolerance is an irony that is lost on them - given how, in thought and word and deed they obviously don’t believe in such things themselves!"
How prevalent are these people? This is the same thing we heard about everyone who hated The Last Jedi : that they're all just basement-dwelling neckbeards who hated the movie because the main characters weren't mostly white males. I don't like TLJ, I don't like Discovery, and I'm having definite problems with Picard, and none of it has to do with the composition of the cast. I know plenty of other people who are in the same boat. So, it gets a little tiring to always read comments that dismiss all criticism of these things by equating all detractors with incels and Nazis.
That said, I don't make a point of seeking out other people who also take issue with those movies/shows and digging into their motivations. So, are there really that many shitbags in the bunch, and I'm somehow in a minority of people who actually dislike these products on their merit? Or are the assholes a minority (because, let's be honest, they definitely do exist in some number), and just a convenient thing for people who like the shows to use to dismiss any criticism?
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