posted
Well, we saw Cojenitor last night. A VERY VERY good episode. I really liked it - and I WAS spoiled about the ending a few months ago - but I had forgotten - and it made me feel awful what happened to the Cojenitor!
This episode was like dealing with Interference with other cultures, Getting along with other cultures, Sexual descrimination, Political and Social problems etc.
BUT - does anyone think that this episode was originally written for Voyager?
I mean - I thought to myself after the episode - I hope they continue with some of the issues raised by Archer towards Trip, and Trip dealing with what he did. This episode was TOTALLY TREK - it was seeking out new life and new civilisations AND boldy going where no man has gone before - into that beautiful star!! ((Although I couldn't believe that race was so willing to part with their technological secrets so readily - maybe this is how Starfleet originally became so advanced!?!)) The new season I read about that people in the US are seeing - sounds dissapointing - because it's not Trek - not like this episode was - there is no getting to know new races etc - it's about vendetta! Why not just call it Star Trek: Vendetta?
BUT! After the episode I thought to myself - why would Cojenitor work on Enterprise and not elsewhere? Immediately I though - Voyager - it would have worked equally as well on Voyager.
I thought about who Trip's equivalent would have been - Harry Kim. I can even see the ending with Janeway dressing him down and acting so dissapointed with him - and that she though Harry would have learnt better from her - being their and watching the difficult Prime Directive situations she's had to deal with.
The Doctor would have fit Phlox's part. Tom Paris would have been Reed's part (obviously before he hooked up with B'Elanna) Janeway would have been getting along with the other Captain. The whole Tech storyline with the Engineer would have made more sense - seeing as this race might have had technology to aide Voyager on it's way home. Pity Voyager didn't do it. Although most would have bagged it anyway - just because it was Voyager.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I know you live in Alpha Centauri and are only getting to see Cogenitor just now but I can say (from the FUTURE!) that if you liked that good episode, you'll be truly impressed with the second installment of season three.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Not just the Doctor - I'm talking about the WHOLE episode - is there anything in that episode that made it an ENTERPRISE episode? It could have easily have been done - or even originally written for Voyager.
I'm saying I could see Harry Kim originally being in Trip's place.
You could basically change ships and characters and everything would fit perfectly. 22nd or 24th century, Alpha or Delta quadrant.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
You see, in the 22nd century, they're called 'phase pistols', and in the 24th century, they're called 'phasers'. See? You have to think like TPTB here.
posted
Add the fact that Voyager's crew is far less likable than Trip.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Y'know, when I watched "Starship Down", I had that same feeling. I thought "It sounds like they wrote this for another Trek - oh yeah, TNG ... they filmed it, too."
posted
How do you figure? I don't recall the TNG ever shooting it out with three starships in a planet's atmosphere... Of course it could have happened in the long bad halucination that was TNG's season seven....
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
"Disaster". Of course, while there were similarities, "Starship Down" wasn't a total carbon copy.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I don't recall the TNG ever shooting it out with three starships in a planet's atmosphere...
Superficial summary of the episode: Defiant shoots Jem Hadar ships while in Gas Giant.
Actual episode: Series of small character pieces based around a massive disaster having taken place on the ship, and how the crew go about saving either the ship, or just their own lives.
Similarity exists.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It's actually closer to a submarine movie's plot. See K-19? same plot structure.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
True, Liam, but the character pieces themselves were very different. Being different characters. Except Worf.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, you could make a case that "character has trouble getting others to follow his orders" appears in both, with Picard and Worf.
But I wasn't saying that they were the same episode. I'm saying that the plot outline was the same. The whole "trapped in gas giant" was just a mechanism to put the crew in that situation, and wasn't what the actual point was. Yeah, Worf and co were trying to fix the ship, but the actual point there was that Worf was having trouble getting non-coms to obey him. Likewise, Quark and Zefram Cochrain were suppossed to be diffusing a torpedo, but that was a way of letting a new life form (and us) learn about how Quark's values and traditions can be useful.
So, it was the same plot sort, but because the plot was very much a character piece, it ended up being different, simply because the characters were different.
I was just saying that calling "Disaster" and "Starship Down" different because the ship hits a natural space mine anomoly in one, and is trapped in a gas giant while being pursued in other, is fairly erronous.
And that post was far too long.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Cogenitor introduced a lame half-thought out alien species that would never appear again, this in itself is Voyagerish.. other than that, i found Trip's dilemma to be a lot better than some of ENT (and modern Trek's) poor attempts at attepting TOS' humanistic/moral dilemma approach.. this ep actually made sense, and didnt fall into the VGR mold of the easy non-thought provoking ending... that being said, the ENT ep actually accomplishes a lot more impact than the TNG 'Outcast' which attempted a similar scenario.. plus i found the acting and characterisation to be superior to some ENT eps that precede or follow it (Archer, Trip, and to a lesser extent, Reed, were well handled as acting 1> like themselves and 2> not like cookie-cutter Starfleeters {see: VGR}
Registered: Sep 2001
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