posted
I keep rewatching clips of "Shattered Mirror" and "Paradise Lost", yet can't decide from where the aft torpedoes were launched. They are always shown from a distance, making their exact locations impossible to determine.
"Shattered Mirror": the entire aft surface of the tail glows yellow (imagine Drexler's engines actually working). The glow subsides, and a photon torpedo emerges from somewhere on the *port* side of the tail. Certainly not from the blueprint/MSD locations. You could be convinced into thinking that the torpedo came out of the left impulse "red-light", unless you freeze-framed the video and saw the torpedo coming from elsewhere.
"Paradise Lost": reruning the scene about ten times convinces the eye that the photon torpedo was fired *aft* from the ventral side of the *forward* starboard quantum launcher. Freeze-framing the video, however, shows this to be an optical illusion -- however, the torpedo still came out from somewhere on the starboard side, between the nacelles.
It can't be all the way aft because the glow preceding the launch grows so big as to cover the forward quantum launcher (hence the illusion). A glow starting at the very aft would have to be impossibly huge to do this.
I wonder whether the VFX crews wanted the torpedoes to come out of the left "impulse red-light" and the forward quantum launcher, respectively, and relied on optical illusions to convince the viewers of this. Is the freeze-frame a more valid evidence?
Another thing. Those "impulse red-lights" are not always glowing red. Sometimes they're dark. It could be an argument for an alternate impulse system in the tail, and aft launchers in the dark holes. On the other hand, a huge aft torpedo bay could also be in the tail, replacing Drexler's engines.
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
I seem to remember aft quantorps firing from the two little nubbins atop the engine blocks. And WHY do people still insist that quantorps require a separate special launcher?
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
Actually, you need only one instance of photon torpedoes firing from a quantum launcher to disprove that notion. Unfortunately, we haven't seen such a case yet, unless we ignore the freeze-frame of "Paradise Lost". The VFX crews in both FC and DS9 have been pretty consistent about where certain torps come from. But we know that quantorps and photorps use the exact same casing ("Valiant"), so it might not be a problem.
posted
I've got "Paradise Lost" and "Shattered Mirror" on video and have extensively studied the aft torp firings. Unfortunately I've never come to any solid conclusion as to where the torps originate from.
Video tapes just don't give enough detail in these situations, and pausing just makes things worse. What we really need is for these eps to be released on DVD. Oh well.
Regarding quantum torpedos - have we ever seen these fired at warp? I don't think we have. It occured to me that maybe one difference between photorps and quantorps is that the ps are capable of warp while the qs are not. This might explain why the Defiant quantorp launcher modules are so small and how the Ent-E main launcher basically has no tube (Captain's Yacht). Just a thought anyway.
posted
I watched media files where the freeze-frame is no problem. The "Paradise Lost" sequence is at www.maximumdefiant.com. However, DVDs would give us higher resolution.
Your theory could be right for as long as an upcoming movie doesn't show a quantum torpedo at warp; the problem is in the lack of warp chase sequences in DS9 and FC, where we had quantum torpedoes. It doesn't seem to be a limitation the writers would like -- I think that so far, they primarily want quantum torpedoes to be more powerful, and maybe they'll invent other aspects in an upcoming movie.
However, I wonder what happened to packs of ten torpedoes launched at once yet targeted differently ("Yesterday's Enterprise"), or simply torpedoes launched straight, curving around to the actual target. You wouldn't need all the extra launchers or rotating turrets seen in recent shows.
posted
Hmm, I think packing ten torpedoes in a single volley is only possible for really big launchers, like those on the GCS or maybe NCS. It seems the newer starships are all using single-fire tubes, though some of them does have impressive rate of fire. As to why the switch, maybe Starfleet thinks such high number of torpedoes-per-volley is unnecessarily for most of its ships.
Still, I would like to see the effect of ten Quantum torpedoes striking a single target simultaniously.
[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: David Templar ]
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, it might be good to get some more questions out:
Phelps' List of Weird Questions about Torpedoes (please add your own)
1) Why do torpedoes glow? 2) Why do TOS torpedoes glow white, TNG torpedoes orange?
3) Why do quantum torpedoes glow blue?
4) What's up with the shifting streaks of light coming out of the orange core in the movies?
5) How's a big launcher different from a small launcher?
6) Are there different sizes of torpedo casings? The Defiant's MSD would indicate so, although "Valiant" seemed to show the usual full-size prop.
7) Why do recent ships have more launchers? Is it to cover for the lack of a guidance system?
8) What's the difference between the different "Marks" of torpedoes? Is "Mark" a company, as indicated in the DS9 ep where Sisko meets Kasidy and they refer to Mark as a company?
9) Are quantum torpedoes ever housed in different casings? We've seen one in the usual coffin (sorry) in "Valiant", though Drexler's DS9TM pictures and Eaves' FC sketches show a pointy casing.
posted
Actually, Phelps, we've seen other colored photon torpedoes on Starfleet ships. The Motion Picture had the Enterprise firing a blue torpedo at the asteroid, and The Final Frontier had the Enterprise firing a green (I think, it might have been blue again) torpedo at God.
We know for certain that there are two sizes of photon torpedoes. The first is the regular size that we've seen many times as a prop (Generations, "Valiant," "Tears of the Prophets" etc.). The second are the "micro-torpedoes" that the runabouts use. Those are supposed to be fairly tiny in comparison to the regular torpedoes.
"Mark" isn't a company name. It's actually a design number. Think of it in terms of computer programs and their version numbers. Windows 3.1 is newer product and more advanced that the 2.2 version. The Mark VII transporters are more advanced and capable of greater resolution than the Mark V transporters (I believe that's how the conversation between Yates and Sisco went). For photon torpedoes, I think we had mention of Voyager's mark number in "Dreadnaught," but I can't remember offhand. We've also seen the mark numbers written on them in Generations and The Wrath of Khan.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
Alright, so we'll add TMP to the list, though I seem to remember yellow torpedoes in that movie. You're right about Mark as well -- the German version had "I thought Mark stopped making them", while the script, which I just checked, says "Mark Five? I thought they stopped making them..."
posted
1) Why do torpedoes glow? Suppositely, I think it's from the exhaust of the torpedoes' engines. Too tired to read the TNGTM to tell you the details.
2) Why do TOS torpedoes glow white, TNG torpedoes orange? Um, different exhaust temperatures?
4) What's up with the shifting streaks of light coming out of the orange core in the movies? Because it looks cool!
5) How's a big launcher different from a small launcher? Bore size which influences volley capacity, the number of torpedoes it can throw out per shot. The GCS's got huge launchers with a large bore, which means they can pack ten torpedoes in there at once. AFAIK, torpedo launchers all work on compressed gas concept, kinda like today's submarine's torpedo tubes.
6) Are there different sizes of torpedo casings? The Defiant's MSD would indicate so, although "Valiant" seemed to show the usual full-size prop. Depends what you want to believe, the MSD or lack of a new prop.
7) Why do recent ships have more launchers? Is it to cover for the lack of a guidance system? I think it's to keep up the rate of fire. Recent torpedo launchers are all single shots, so having two is better than one. Usually they're located too close to eachother to justify one being there for redundency. Also, let's ignore the idea of a ship having fifteen tubes.
8) What's the difference between the different "Marks" of torpedoes? Is "Mark" a company, as indicated in the DS9 ep where Sisko meets Kasidy and they refer to Mark as a company?Someone already covered this.
9) Are quantum torpedoes ever housed in different casings? We've seen one in the usual coffin (sorry) in "Valiant", though Drexler's DS9TM pictures and Eaves' FC sketches show a pointy casing. Frankly, I wouldn't trust the DS9TM if it told me the Earth was round.
10) Why are they always painted black? Looks cool.
11) Are they deliberately the size of a coffin?Probably not, but they do make great coffins.
12) Have we ever seen other shapes for torpedoes? We saw a Jam'Hadar torpedo in "Starship Down". It was more cylindrical, milky-white and opac, with a light pulsing inside it. Can't remember any other torpedoes being shown, unless you want to include the one from "Enterprise".
13) Are any more powerful than others? The impression given to us was that Romulan plasma torpedoes were among some of the most devastating weapons avaliable. I'm assuming that this would be a guided weapon with a large plasma warhead, rather than large balls of plasma with unknown but accurate means of guidance as from Starfleet Battles and SFCI and II (how the heck do big balls of gas follow targets?!).
Federation's Quantum torpedo seems to also be much feared, though maybe not to the same extent.
Klingon torpedoes seemed very similar to regular Photon torpedoes.
Breen torpedoes seem to have a delay-action fuse, and a smaller warhead than those of other races. You always see them (when the target vessel's shields are down) exploding inside a ship.
Dominion torpedoes also seem to employ smaller warheads than most Alpha Quadrant races. The Ent-D took extensive hull damage (chunks of the secondary hull was blown off) from the Duras sister's BoP's torpedoes, while the Odyessy only had scorch marks.
Cardassian torpedoes sucks, period.
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
posted
As for the fact that the torps glow... It's possible that this is just a TV effect. Thus, any variations have no bearing on what the torpedo really looks like. Sometimes, on televised hockey games, they'll superimpose a streaky little blob of color on top of the puck, so you can see better where it is. And on football games (N.B.: I'm in the United States) they'll add in a line to represent the line of scrimmage. These things aren't really there; they're just on the TV screen. I think of the glowiness of the torpedoes as the same sort of thing.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic
