posted
I think not. From this pic, it can clearly be seen to have rear impulse engines, ad the bridge structure does not seem to be elevated like the D-7's. Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a K't'inga! Boy does this open a new can of worms! Those of you who complained about seeing a D-7 in 2150 (of which I was not one) are REALLY going to flip over this one!
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Wait! I now see that the cruiser explicitly identified as a D-7 in VGR "Prophecy" also had impulse engines! So there does exist a D-7 variant with rear impulse ports.
So now that leaves the question of why those in service during the 2260's did not have them.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Well, it could be that the D-7s during TOS had their impulse engines in that large structure on top of the ship (which I think they were originally intended to be).
No clue why the other ones have those added engines.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
posted
Dude, do you realize you've been arguing with yourself?
I'll explain to you why the D-7 in TOS is missing its impulse drive exhausts if you explain to me why the Akiraprise has blue-glowy nacelles while other TOS Fed ships didn't. Also note that the D-7 in 2150 has glowy nacelles, while the one in 2260 didn't.
*hums Klingon theme* Dada da da da da da dada da daaaaa.....
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Almost as inexplicable as 2280s Miranda class ships having roll-bars, then one in the 2360s not having a roll bar, and then Mirandas in the 2370s having rollbars again? Its called individual ship variation, homes..
Almost as inexplicable as cars not having tailfins, then having tailfins in the 50s, and then returning to not having tailfins?
Dammit! I want a car with tailfins!!!! MOMMY, BUY ME ECTO-1!!!!
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
posted
Er...surely the obvious answer is that glowy-bit technology in the late 60's was far less advanced than glowy-bit technology today?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm starting to think that the D7 and K't'inga classes are just one and the same thing - we've just seen variations of the one class over history. This isn't really any different to how the BoP has been called D12, B'rel, and K'vort. It's also similar to how the Romulans ship is both a B-type and D'deridex Warbird.
Also, to my knowledge the term K'tinga has never been used in canon Trek. Yet we have had D7 canonized numerous times now.
posted
When you consider that the TOS Klingon ship was supposed? to have the impulse engines in that top structure, it fits with the look of the BOP impulse engine in ST:III - in the middle, in between two strip thingies, recessed.
Unless the impulse engines that are in the position not seen on the TOS version are hidden like the Defiant's or the Enterprise-Nil!?! (Although they weren't REALLY hidden there did appear to be some sort of grill.)
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: I'll explain to you why the D-7 in TOS is missing its impulse drive exhausts if you explain to me why the Akiraprise has blue-glowy nacelles while other TOS Fed ships didn't.
Enterprise isn't a TOS Fed ship, it is a pre-TOS Earth ship... lo and behold, the only other canon pre-TOS Earth ship, the Pheonix, has blue-glowy nacelles.
posted
Hold on a minute, I'm confused here. Let's see if I have my facts straight.
Canonically, here's the list of on-screen Klingon ships (not counting Birds of Prey, Vor'cha, etc.)
1. The original TOS battlecruiser, which was never given an on-screen name or class.
2. The TMP Klingon battlecruiser, which was never given an on-screen class. This ship was used again in TWOK, TNG, & DS9.
3. The Klingon battlecruiser featured in "Trials & Tribble-ations," which was canonically referred to as a D-7.
4. The Klingon battlecruiser featured in both that final-season Voyager episode, and "Unexpected" which is a CGI model, I believe (not sure about this one). I don't remember if a class was given in the Voyager ep, but it wasn't given in the Enterprise ep.
So, here's my take as to why the ship we saw in Enterprise looks more advanced than the ships we see in TOS: Because the TOS ships were D-4's! (Or any combination of the letter D with a number less than 7). The "Unexpected" ship could have been brand spanking new for all we know, and during TOS, the Klingons could still have been flying older model ships. It just happened that the only TOS Klingon ships we saw were very old ones. It would also explain why the Klingons traded their older ships to the Romulans, instead of their top-of-the-line D-7's.
Note: I realize that my theory goes against fandom and Encyclopedia speculation that the TOS ships were D-7's. I'm just going by canon facts & trying to find a reasonable solution.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Canonically, here's the list of on-screen Klingon ships (not counting Birds of Prey, Vor'cha, etc.)
1. The original TOS battlecruiser, which was never given an on-screen name or class.
2. The TMP Klingon battlecruiser, which was never given an on-screen class. This ship was used again in TWOK, TNG, & DS9.
3. The Klingon battlecruiser featured in "Trials & Tribble-ations," which was canonically referred to as a D-7.
4. The Klingon battlecruiser featured in both that final-season Voyager episode, and "Unexpected" which is a CGI model, I believe (not sure about this one). I don't remember if a class was given in the Voyager ep, but it wasn't given in the Enterprise ep.
Unfortunately, it muddles things up quite a bit that the "Unexpected" (ENT) ship was, in fact, called a D7 in "Prophecy" (VGR), despite being different from Greg Jein's D7 in "Trials and Tribble-ations" (DS9).
You can also, if you wish, add the D-5 referred to in "Once More Into the Breach" (DS9) as Kor's old I.K.S. Klothos, referring to the Klothos actually seen in "The Time Trap" (TAS). It looks just like the original series ship with an extruded forward torpedo tube and minor details.
Of course, for all we know, Kor commanded an older D5 Klothos (mentioned in Deep Space Nine) before being promoted to a battlecruiser that he renamed in honor of his old ship (in the animated series). Or if you don't care for the animated series, he could have still commanded a D5 before whatever unseen and unnamed ship he operated from in "Errand of Mercy" (TOS).
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Note: I realize that my theory goes against fandom and Encyclopedia speculation that the TOS ships were D-7's. I'm just going by canon facts & trying to find a reasonable solution.
That's the way to do it. Anyone know what the rear of Greg Jein's updated D7 looks like?
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
I've been looking for screencaps.. i think im going to get the video out now.
BTW, why cant they all be D7s? The Constitution-class refers to a wide range of ships, from April/Pike era 1701 with tall bridge dome and nacelle spires all the way through a couple modifications on TOS, to the TMP refit, which is almost a completely different vessel which shares the same planform but wildly different hull details.
D7 could be a catch all term referring to that size, configuration and planform. Within that, modifications could be referred to with different class names, such as 'K't'inga' being one modification.
Actually this is pretty much the only explanation considering of the four or five ships weve seen of the same basic design, the first and middle ones have both been referred to as D7 Chronologically
1) 22nd century battlecruiser: Moderately detailed hull, glowy impuse decks, rear torp launcher. Seen in 'Unexpected' and that Voyager episode, where it was called a D7.
2) 23rd century battlecruiser: Low hull detail. Few visible ports, possibly a similar vessel but lightly equipped for different mission profiles. Seen in 'Enterprise Incident' and 'Elaan of Troyius'
2a) 23rd century battlecruiser: Low hull detail, but more detailed than '2.' Intended to represent the same vessel, used in 'Trials & Tribbleations' Explicitly referred to as D7. Some could infer that it was built not as a variant of that vessel, but as a clarification and represents the exact same class and design.
3) Late 23rd century battlecruiser: Highly detailed hull.. Lots of technology added to same basic planform. Rear launcher, no glowy impulse engines. Referred to as 'K't'Inga' class by Gene Roddenberry's novelization. If Gene wrote it, I'll believe that what its called. This same footage was reused in ST:II and a couple TNG episodes. We must infer this specific modification remains in use that long.
3a) Late 23rd century battlecruiser: Modifications of this design were used with new paint scheme and extra/different colored lights in ST:6 and presumably post 'Way of the Warrior' DS9 eps. Intended to represent much the same ship. Dates range 2293-2370s. Its not clear if these appearances were the same model or a new one or even if the ST:VI ship and the WotW ship are the same model.
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
I've just been to the VCR
"Trials & Tribbleations": No rear tube, no glowy things. Looks much like the 'Enterprise Incident' screencap from before. The only real difference is the addition of slight deflector gridlines. There is really no doubt in my mind this is intended to represent the same modification as the TOS appearances, which were none too clear.
I also noticed tht Jein labeled the ship with different Klingonese characters on the wing, which distracts from something id discovered when studying the issue earlier. I looked at the old model's labels and then translated the characters using the Klingon alphabet from Drexler's Officers Manual. What did they say? I'm not telling, because if i did then someone wouls start scremaing and crying yelling 'THat's not canon!!! waaaa waaaa waa!!!!' with tears running down their face and snot running out their nose as they vainly tried to understand how i could possibly buy and read a publication that Paramount didnt gift wrap for them.
But its interesting..
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
"Enterprise isn't a TOS Fed ship, it is a pre-TOS Earth ship... lo and behold, the only other canon pre-TOS Earth ship, the Pheonix, has blue-glowy nacelles."
You forget the Daedalus. Or, to be strictly canonical, the USS Horizon. Although, to be fair, colored photos in the Encyclopedia suggest that the aft ends of those nacelles do, in fact, glow blue.
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