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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » Starships & Technology » TNG Vehicle Sizes at Premier -- Probert's take (Page 1)

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Author Topic: TNG Vehicle Sizes at Premier -- Probert's take
MrNeutron
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With the kind permission of Andy Probert I am posting an image he put together to show the relative sizes of the starships for TNG's first season. (I typed a label, and there's an extra word...oops.)

IMAGE: Andy Probert's starship size chart, circa 1987

Some of the ship details are a little wonky, as this was intended as a size reference only.

Note the original design for the Ambassador class, which is considerably different than the more TOS-ish design that finally emerged in "Yetserday's Enterprise". Andy's design was the basis of the "half-model" seen in the 1701-D's Observation Lounge. Andy also painted the ship as an intended matte element for "Encounter at Farpoint" (it was to be the ship that Admiral McCoy was going over to), but it was not used.

Modified to include space behind it after it wasn't used, the painting can be seen here.

I assume FSV is Federation Science Vessel. All measurements are in feet. O.L. = Overall Length.

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"Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon

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Mark Nguyen
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YES! Finally, a good look at that damn not-Ambassador class! I like it more already.

Mark

[ October 22, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]

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J
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I'd like to note that it looks much more like a TNG refit of an Excelsior Class than anything else... not that that's a bad thing But it still looks like one.

Perhaps the reason why production thought it was alright to use the Excelsior model for VFX?

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Jason Abbadon
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The proto-Ambassador looks good from the sude but terrible from the front.
Did Andy ever make a top view?
The saucer looks very oval in the forward (color) sketch but possibly not in the side view.

Still....theres modeling potential there.
Probably have to make the ship of a later vintage than intended though: it looks far too modern.

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Fabrux
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Here's my quick take on it. I'm sure Kris could do a better version...

Not The Ambassador

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Jason Abbadon
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WEll, yeah....can you extrapolate a top view for me?

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Fabrux
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Well I could extrapolate what the saucer and nacelles would look like, but I'm no good at figuring out how wide the sec hull would be and where the pylons would go etc. I suppose if I really tried I might be able to but I don't have the time to do that anymore...

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Jason Abbadon
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I'd probably just increase the Excelsior's secondary hull (for the shape if not the details) by 60%, make the connecting neck more triangular in shape than the Ambassador's and the nacelles appear to be the same as used on the Amby but at a stretched out X-Y ratio.
The nacelles arc away from the secondary hull like the Connie Refit rather than the Excelsior or the Galaxy.
That's a bit odd.
At a guess, I think it has a slightly oval saucer: in between the Excelsior's circular one and the Galaxy's elipse.
Mabye I'll just buy a mis-scaled Excelsior models and chop it into something that looks right....

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Jason Abbadon
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Incidentally, this sketch confirms the Oberth's size of 120 meters.

[ October 22, 2003, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]

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Mark Nguyen
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...And has lots to say about the BoP size, too - probably for its first appearance in the second season.

Mark

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Jason Abbadon
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So much for VFX scaling equaling new classes of KBOP, huh?

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Masao
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Aren't the sizes for the BOP, Oberth, and Excelsior the same as on the STIII chart?

Does this chart also suggest that the name "Ambassador" was already attached to the class this early in production?

A member of the GEC did schematics of the proto-Amb based on the wall sculpture. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: Found it! This is by Jeff Robb: http://home.earthlink.net/~newavatar/id4.html

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MrNeutron
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Andy said he didn't have a direct overhead view of the thing. I imagine he has some isometric views of it in some of his sketchbooks, though. He he has tons of this stuff and not all of it is easily accessible.

I don't think this was drawn for the second season. In fact, I'm guessing it was drawn very early on in the first season, since he did do the Ambasassador class painting for "Encounter at Farpoint".

As to that page where those guys extrapolated a shape from the wall model, my gust instinct says it's VERY off, especially in regards to the engineering hull.

I will be pestering Andy for more info on this ship until the truth is revealed!

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"Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon

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Jason Abbadon
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That extrapolation from the wall sculpture is fugly.

Reeeeeaaaaalllly fugly.

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MinutiaeMan
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quote:
Originally posted by J:
I'd like to note that it looks much more like a TNG refit of an Excelsior Class than anything else... not that that's a bad thing But it still looks like one.

I strongly disagree. IMO it's only the effect of the apparent similarity from the direct side view that makes it look like an Excelsior refit. A quick glance at Probert's painting shows that it's really very different! I don't think it has anything in common as far as actual assembly goes. Plus, the saucer is way too big to be put on a refit design -- even the TMP refit of the original Enterprise didn't expand the saucer by THAT much!

I may just be imagining this, but I recall reading somewhere that they wanted to use Probert's exact design for the Enterprise-C, but the modelmakers were too rushed at the time that they had to simplify it in a few ways to make a quicker build -- which basically explains the cylindrical secondary hull.

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