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Author Topic: Romulan-Vulcan war?
Baloo
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The Star Trek Encyclopedia (2nd edition, dead tree version ) states that the Romulans and Vulcans fought a war that lasted for a century some time prior to 2072. The war was sparked by Quinn, a member of the Q continuum.

If the Romulans had no warp drives, how could this be? Do you suppose that Quinn shuttled Romulan and Vulcan ships to places where they could fight? And nobody noticed?

Your thoughts please. I think this might be plausible if the Romulans thought they had discovered a stable wormhole connecting their space to Vulcan space. Is there any other way this might be plausible?

--Baloo

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"Lassie, her ears pricked up!"
--Atoth the Tamarian [From "Star Trek: Door Repair Guy"]
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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Perhaps Quinn CREATED that wormhole?

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First of Two
Better than you
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The LUG Trek games, as well, postulate that a stable wormhole temporarily opened up, leading from Rom space to Vulcan space.

They later went on to theorize that the Romulans had devoped 'one-shot' single-use warp drives, although this wouldn't sound like a good idea to me..

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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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Well, a limited-use drive might explain how the Romulans could have a war with ANYONE outside their system, and how they managed to attack Fed outposts in BoT. Perhaps their power systems were based on nuclear fusion (or something else) and the drive used so much power that they ran out of fuel quickly, having to ration the rest to power the trip back.

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Or, maybe they just plain had warp drives...

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Aethelwer
Frank G
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Didn't the Romulans not have warp drives in the Earth/Romulan war (2157-2160), though?

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Baloo
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Well, tell me this, Frank. How could they have been the aggressor in a war that lasted only 3 years? The average distance between star systems in this part of the galaxy is 10 light years. It would have taken more time than the length of the war to reach more than one or two star systems, even if the Romulans were in a part of the galaxy where the stars are closer together. Earth forces could easily avoid a war by just not attacking until the Romulans came close enough to an Earth-claimed planet to pose a threat.

If Earth had been the aggressor in that war, I doubt the Vulcans would have been founding members. They aren't necessarily pacifist, but they would not condone a war of concession, not give one tacit approval by allying themselves with the aggressor so soon after the conflict ended.

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"Lassie, her ears pricked up!"
--Atoth the Tamarian [From "Star Trek: Door Repair Guy"]
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Sol System
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I appear to be in the minority on this, but I've always viewed this war as occuring very shortly after the split between the followers of Surak and those that didn't. However, I get the feeling that I'm forgetting some crucial details, so I'll go back and check it out.

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AndrewR
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Doesn't all this speculation stem from the 'fact' that the Romulans "didn't have warp drive" ok, so maybe they didn't have warp drive - maybe it was just another technology... we do know that they use forced artifical quantum anomalies???? to power their ships - so maybe they have FTL capabilities but just not WARP drive...

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Well, "warp" has nothing to do w/ a matter/antimatter reaction, if that's what you're thinking. Warp drive simply refers to the use of a subspace field to get from point A to point B faster than the speed of light. You can power it w/ a M/A reaction, forced quantum singularities, nuclear fusion (probably what the Romulans were using during TOS, given Scotty's "impulse power" line in BoT), or whatever you can find that will generate enough energy to make enough plasma to react w/ the warp coils and produce an effective subspace field.

As for the Vulco-Romulan War, my preference is to say that it lasted from around 2050 to around 2150. This would be soon before the Terro-Romulan War, which might explain why the Vulcans didn't involve themselves in that. Of course, there are equally satisfactory times at which to place it, also.

Oh, and for anyone who's going to try to reference Dougherty's line in ST9 about Romulan thugs and warp drive... I don't think he meant that these "thugs" were the first ones to introduce warp drive to the Romulan civilization. I thik he may have just meant that they brought about a much more effective warp drive (perhaps the introduction of artificial singularities, rather than fusion power). However, I don't remember exactly what the wording was, so this may or may not fit what he said.

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Baloo
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Well, if anyone has "Balance of Terror" in their collection, could you review it and report back to the rest of us? That's the episode where they talk about the Romulans not having warp drive and the treaty being negotiated by voice-only subspace radio, etc.

I think we'll need 2 or 3 witnesses before we judge this one, the wording is important. I really think the Romulans could not have waged a war of aggression without some sort of FTL travel. Except for wormholes and other "naturally-occurring" anomalies, warp drive is just about the only way you could even begin to contemplate an interstellar war that lasted only 3 years.

--Baloo

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"Lassie, her ears pricked up!"
--Atoth the Tamarian [From "Star Trek: Door Repair Guy"]
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/


[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited March 19, 2000).]


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Elim Garak
Plain and simple
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I have "Balance of Terror" on tape. I'll check that out tomorrow afternoon, pending time.
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AndrewR
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Yeah, but maybe that the Romulans didn't use 'warp' drive - i.e. their forced quantumn singularity, doesn't go through subspace - that their system of propulsion is alien to the federation's - meaning they didn't have any recognisable - to Scotty type of warp drive.

They still might have been able to travel interstellar distances but, not using 'warp' drive. maybe it was a very insufficient, unstable technology - which cause extreme cellular degeneration and disfiguration leading to their 'ridges' and Klingons after they obtained similar tech from the Romulans - AND having a similar physiology - ALSO developed similar symptoms to the Romulans... This of course happened for the Klingons before the Romulans... maybe the Romulan deception of the true nature of their tech was a reason for the continuing Romulan/Klingon tensions.

Klingons, ridges before TMP, Romulans ridges before "The Neutral Zone" - or when ever that picture of Senator Pardek was taken in "Unification"

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins


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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Andrew: You forget, Klingons also had ridges to begin with, as evidenced by the Kahless clone.

As for "Balance of Terror", when I saw it I specifically watched for any clues that there was no warp drive. There was nothing explicit. It all stems from Scotty's line that they only had "impulse power" (I'm pretty sure those are the exact words). Even though we now use "impulse" only in reference to the drive, it's possible that, at the time of TOS, it was common to use it to refer to a fusion reactor, at least when it was partially used to power a subluminous drive.

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"To make the merry-go-round go faster, so that everyone needs to hang on tighter, just to keep from being thrown to the wolves."
-They Might Be Giants, "They Might Be Giants"


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AndrewR
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OK, ignore my faulty tech reason for Romulan and Klingon ridges - in part - cause I have another idea from a long time ago - that explains the Kahless clone too - well you could also add it in here. It also explains away the Kor, Kang and Koloth ridges.

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins


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