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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » General Trek » Romulan-Vulcan war? (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Romulan-Vulcan war?
Timo
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I think I'm with TSN on this.

Interestingly, if Spock is speaking of the aggressive colonizing phase of the western society on Earth between 1500 and 1800, instead of a space colonization phase between 2060 and 2260, then perhaps he is making an exact analogy. Perhaps Vulcan, too, had a time when peoples from one part of the planet conquered peoples from other parts of the same planet?

Perhaps the ridgeheaded Vulcans were among the oppressed, and among the most aggressive of the Vulcan inhabitants? They could have opposed Surak as a racial group in addition to being a group tied together by philosophy. The 100-yr war could have been between flatheads and ridgeheads on Vulcan during "an aggressive, colonizing period", leading to a deep schism that ended in the departure of the ridgeheads and thus the birth of the Romulan race. Some flatheads would naturally go with them, and some ridgeheads would remain on Vulcan.

The caveat here is that a planet capable of starflight seems unlikely to be in a phase of dirtbound colonialism. Perhaps the 100-yr war resulted in the achieving of starflight, as our WWs gave us flight and spaceflight? Imagine large isolated desert communities developing the tech required to wage war with each other across distances - mere crusade-type mass movements of foot soldiers or mounted knights would be doomed to disappear amidst the sands, and mechanized troops would also have immense problems. Perhaps a major war could only be fought with the invention of advanced flight technologies, later leading to spaceflight?

Timo Saloniemi


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Bernd
Guy from Old Europe
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The thing that still bothers me most is that Romulus would necessarily consist and always have consisted of a single star system if they didn't have warp drive back in 2160. The point is that the Federation could easily have occupied hundreds of surrounding planets, leaving no escape for the Romulans.
This would be ridiculously small for an empire comparable to the Federation or the Klingons or even the tiny but pathetic Cardassian Union. Do they have bases for hundreds of giant warbirds and other ships wedged within the Romulus/Romii system? Why does the NZ consist of dozens of star systems, while Romulus itself is only a single system? Wouldn't the Federation easily be able to monitor every movement within the Romulan star system, let alone the construction of new ship types?
The only argument in favor of a small Romulan Empire is "Redemption", where a small tachyon detection fleet is able to monitor the complete Romulan-Klingon border.

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Timo
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The disadvantages of being a single-system empire aren't all that explicit in the Trek universe. Duranium and dilithium may not be present everywhere in the universe, but we have no explicit reason to believe the Romulans would be using either of these. Native products could suffice - and the Romulans might take pride on their self-sustenance, refusing to develop technologies that would make them dependent on other worlds. The Klingon lend-lease cruisers may have taught them a nasty lesson if the Romulan system lacks dilithium, for example...

And once self-sustenance is established, being surrounded is no problem. The troops of the surrounded party are always ideally deployed, whereas the surrounding opponent is spreading his nonoptimally. Cloakships can run the blockade in modern days, thanks to the fact that you have to be very close to a cloakship to spot it - similarly, ships of yore may have slipped out even without a cloak if the sensors of that era required similar proximity for reliable detection.

Total control of a single star system (especially a system the Romulans probably could choose carefully from a group of candidates, a luxury Humans or Klingons do not have) is IMHO sufficient basis for building a mighty starfleet and terrorizing the surrounding space. It's just a matter of the psychologigal makeup of the Romulans and the Klingons if the former consider a single system a "Star Empire", while the latter feel inferior if their Empire doesn't have the largest number of conquered planets in the galaxy.

As for canon-based arguments for and against:

-The fact that the RNZ is said to be monitored by a tachyon net in "Face of the Enemy" is either an oversimplification or then proof of a) incredible engineering prowess of the Federation or b) a relatively small RNZ.

-The "Redemption" blockade of the Romulan border would be simpler technically if RNZ was small. But Klingon space would have to physically border the RNZ for this episode to work. It is a bit problematic to assume that Feds and Klingons would both have a well-defined border next to this single star system. One would assume such a state of affairs would have required a big war in the past, and at least one specific mention in the episodes.

-The Gamma Hydra affair in "The Deadly Years" and STII could support either argument. GH would have to be located very close to the RNZ for a shortcut to SB10 to be necessary by pure coincidence. If GH was farther away than a couple of lightyears, then an incredible coincidence would be needed for SB10 to lie exactly on the line connecting GH and RNZ. But GH could indeed be a nearby system, a famous historical one even, so that it would feature in SF Academy simulations as the token "We are near the Neutral Zone" indicator. And the Zone in STII does look really small.


-A multi-system RNZ is quite unlikely if we really interpret the Zone to be a sphere 1 ly across. A single-system one isn't likely if the shell of the sphere is 1 ly thick. What is the exact reference in "The Defector"?

Then again, the TNG RNZ could be different from the TOS RNZ, perhaps renegotiated after the Romulans gained warp drive and stepped up their demands.

Timo Saloniemi


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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Wasn't the neutral zone in ST2 the Klingon one?

And the "Redemption" blockade was on the border between the Klingons and Romulans, right? That border could be much smaller than the one between the Feds and the Romulans.

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Timo
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The ST2 Neutral Zone was simply called "The" Neutral Zone. Since there were Klingons there, it could be a Klingon NZ (although the first time we hear of a Klingon NZ is only in ST6). Since it was near Gamma Hydra which was Romulan neighborhood in "The Deadly
Years", it could be a Romulan NZ. It could also be that the NZ was a fictional creation for simulation purposes only.

The "Redemption" incident could have taken place in may locations:
1) In an actual region of space where the Romulan NZ touches Klingon territory
2) In a region of Klingon space that is nearest to the RNZ even if there is a narrow gap of unclaimed or UFP-held space in between
3) In UFP space just outside the RNZ, on the side that is facing the Klingons.

The most logical place to stop the Romulans would be 3), since then the Romulans would have the least chance of outflanking the blockade, and the Feds wouldn't have to leave their own space. But the dialogue implies the Feds did leave UFP space and went into Klingon space to effect the blockade. This implies the border between the RNZ and Klingon space is a narrow bottleneck area (with or without a gap between the two Empires) since such a tiny fleet could effectively create a blockade. Why would the Romulans use this bottleneck? Why not fly around in UFP or other non-Klingon space until they found a more vulnerable stretch of Klingon border?

Timo Saloniemi


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Sol System
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My money is on the simulation taking place in the Klingon Neutral Zone. I mean, the ships were specifically described as Klingon. Or am I missing something? Perhaps, following the breakup of the Romulan/Klingon alliance, Gamma Hydra found itself in different hands?

Regarding "Redemption", Romulan cloaking technology is probably more advanced then that of the Klingons. The Romulans might have simply been taking the most direct route towards their destination on the assumption that the Klingons couldn't detect them if they tried, and the thought of the Federation sending ships into Klingon space to patrol the border might not have been considered.

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Well, if you believe there ever was an alliance between the Klingons and Romulnas... Personally, I think there's a better explanation. Klingons do have this tendency to take places away from other powers. It's called an "invasion"... :-)

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[This message has been edited by TSN (edited March 27, 2000).]


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Sol System
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It's called being subtle, TSN. Reread my post.

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"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."
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TSN
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I know. I'm just boosting my own position that there was no alliance between the Ks and Rs... :-)

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CC: "Well create one."
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